The lake of fire - Punishment ie torture or destruction

[FreeGrace]

Rev 13 The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast is a Luciferian economic, political and religious power that gives it's power to the beast out of the earth who is the son of perdition who takes his seat on the Temple mount showing great lying signs and wonders that will deceive many into taking its mark as many will bow down to this beast unaware what they are making allegiance to.

This is my understanding as well.

 

[Justicewolf]

Does Hell Exist
Does Hell Exist - What does the Old Testament say?

Someone I know brought up a really good question when we were discussing this topic. Do you notice how God in the OT seems to have a different persona than in the New?

 

[for_his_glory]

Does Hell Exist
Does Hell Exist - What does the Old Testament say?

Someone I know brought up a really good question when we were discussing this topic. Do you notice how God in the OT seems to have a different persona than in the New?

This is what I go by, but even this is highly debated by others.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell
Greek # 1067 Gehenna, the Valley of the sons of Hinnom South of Jerusalem, figuratively and literal of place of punishment.
Greek # 5020. Tartaroo tar-tar-o'-o from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:--cast down to hell.

Matthew 5:29, 30; Mark 9:43-48 Jesus uses the prophetic symbolic of Gehenna as calling it hell or fires of hell meaning the grave/pit where many were burned to death there as the worm did not die there, meaning that there were always new maggots going through their life-cycles, feeding on the dead corpse. Also note Isaiah 66:24.

 

[sunfly]

This is what I go by, but even this is highly debated by others.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell
Greek # 1067 Gehenna, the Valley of the sons of Hinnom South of Jerusalem, figuratively and literal of place of punishment.
Greek # 5020. Tartaroo tar-tar-o'-o from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:--cast down to hell.

Matthew 5:29, 30; Mark 9:43-48 Jesus uses the prophetic symbolic of Gehenna as calling it hell or fires of hell meaning the grave/pit where many were burned to death there as the worm did not die there, meaning that there were always new maggots going through their life-cycles, feeding on the dead corpse. Also note Isaiah 66:24.

My understanding of the actual location that was Gehenna, outside the city walls of Jerusalem as I recall, was that it was the garbage dump. And those who could not afford proper internment, or that were put to death as criminals, their bodies were deposited there for disposal in the flames. No living person was burned there.
I like the Srong's reference.

 

[gr8grace3]

as many will bow down to this beast unaware what they are making allegiance to.

I don't think so. I think those who take the mark...........know exactly what they are signing up for. God/The Lord Jesus Christ doesn't leave people "unaware." He does His Job and informs everyone.....but people choose to reject His advice and truth.

The people who take the mark and bow to satan will be responsible, because God somehow,somewhere gave them an alternative.(the Cross/ whosoever John 3:16.)

Psalm 98:9~~New American Standard Bible
Before the LORD, for He is coming to judge the earth; He will judge the world with righteousness And the peoples with equity.

 

[Free]

This is what I go by, but even this is highly debated by others.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell
Greek # 1067 Gehenna, the Valley of the sons of Hinnom South of Jerusalem, figuratively and literal of place of punishment.
Greek # 5020. Tartaroo tar-tar-o'-o from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:--cast down to hell.

And that is a problem created by the KJV. All three words simply cannot be translated as "hell."

Matthew 5:29, 30; Mark 9:43-48 Jesus uses the prophetic symbolic of Gehenna as calling it hell or fires of hell meaning the grave/pit

Gehenna, as hell, does not mean the grave/pit. That is Hades. Gehenna and Hades are two different "places," or ideas.

 

[gr8grace3]

Chessman. Just to understand a bit better?

Do you believe that Jesus Christ paid for all sin? Sin is finished? Jesus Christ paid the wages of ALL sin?

If yes.................then unbelievers are not PAYING for sin. Their punishment is of a greater nature.

I honestly would be on the same page with you if unbelievers were paying for the wages of sin. But The Lord Jesus Christ paid for ALL sin. So, the stakes are MUCH higher for mankind if we don't believe Jesus Christ paid an eternal wage for us........so if we never believe, the consequences are eternal.

 

[gr8grace3]

Rev 13 The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. This beast is a Luciferian economic, political and religious power that gives it's power to the beast out of the earth who is the son of perdition who takes his seat on the Temple mount showing great lying signs and wonders that will deceive many into taking its mark as many will bow down to this beast unaware what they are making allegiance to.

And what we really need to understand is that it is a counterfeit system of God's True economy. So it is going to be moral,religious and have "good" ideals and ideas for all humanity.....humanityunited.satan will be the site.

And someone mentions Grace and Jesus Christ at this time, they will get their heads chopped off......because they were promoting 'sin all you want."

 

[chessman]

Do you believe that Jesus Christ paid for all sin?

Jesus suffered and died and rose from the dead for all sins of those who become “united with Him in the likeness of His death”.

For if we have become united-with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this: that our old person was crucified-with Him in order that the body of sin might be done-away-with, so that we no longer are-slaves to sin. For the one having died has been declared-righteous from sin. And if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live-with Him, knowing that Christ, having arisen from the dead, dies no more. Death lords-over Him no longer. For the death that He died, He died to sin once-for-all. But the life that He is living, He is living to God.​

Romans 6:5-10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 6:5-10&version=DLNT

What He did not do is suffer eternal torment for even one sin, much less all.

 

[gr8grace3]

Jesus suffered and died and rose from the dead for all sins of those who become “united with Him in the likeness of His death”.

For if we have become united-with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this: that our old person was crucified-with Him in order that the body of sin might be done-away-with, so that we no longer are-slaves to sin. For the one having died has been declared-righteous from sin. And if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live-with Him, knowing that Christ, having arisen from the dead, dies no more. Death lords-over Him no longer. For the death that He died, He died to sin once-for-all. But the life that He is living, He is living to God.​

Romans 6:5-10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 6:5-10&version=DLNT

What He did not do is suffer eternal torment for even one sin, much less all.

So Jesus Christ did not pay for all sin?

 

[chessman]

So Jesus Christ did not pay for all sin?

What Scripture are you referring to with this question/topic?

 

[gr8grace3]

What Scripture are you referring to with this question/topic?

John 3:16.

1 John 2:2~~New American Standard Bible
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

 

[chessman]

1 John 2:2~~New American Standard Bible
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Based on 1 John 2:2 and Paul in Romans 6 I posted earlier for your answer, I would say that the risen Jesus Christ Himself (after His suffering and His dying) IS the payment/propitiation for all sin. The Lamb, the Suffering Servant. This is why I mentioned Paul’s statements about “Him” and His suffering and His death and His resurrection previously. “He Himself” is the propitiation!

It’s not so much that He put some cash down at the Temple (30 pieces of silver) and at the cross He sacrificed a creature (Michael the angel for example like the JW’s from America across the “sea” believe) or that Allah (from the sand) made it “appear” as though the mere human but ‘great prophet may he rest in peace’ died. [I can think of at least 10 false religions (horns) who would swear up/down they believe in ‘jesus’. They don’t truly have Him or His Spirit, however. They have another spirit deceiving them.]

He actually IS the Temple and is God and being in Him is Salvation. Still gives me shivers thanking Him!

He Himself suffered (for a day) and died (within a day) and rose on the Third Day. If Jesus were still and forever henceforth suffering and ‘dying’, Eternal torture as the punishment for the lost might make some sense! And if He weren’t the actual Temple of God, rebuilding one made of stones in Jerusalem (were the golden dome still stands from the last rise of the false prophet’s religion) might make some sense!

That- which was from the beginning [the Word], that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we looked- at and our hands touched, concerning the word of life— indeed life was made-known! And we have seen and are testifying and are announcing to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was made-known to us!—​

1 John 1:1-2 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 John 1:1-2&version=DLNT

And furthermore, The Word is made known to all (through the Holy Spirit), not just the 12 or so Jewish disciples that “heard”, “saw” and “touched” Him literally . His Spirit has now (after Pentecost) been poured out on the whole world, not just sprinkled on some individual Jews. This is (always was) the way God so loved the world (not just the Jews):

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only-born Son, in order that everyone believing in Him may not perish, but may have eternal life. For God did not send-forth the Son into the world in order that He might judge the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him. But the one doing the truth comes to the Light in order that his works may become-visible— that they have been worked in God ”.​

John 3:16-17,21 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 3:16-17,21&version=DLNT

 

[Justicewolf]

This is what I go by, but even this is highly debated by others.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell
Greek # 1067 Gehenna, the Valley of the sons of Hinnom South of Jerusalem, figuratively and literal of place of punishment.
Greek # 5020. Tartaroo tar-tar-o'-o from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:--cast down to hell.

Matthew 5:29, 30; Mark 9:43-48 Jesus uses the prophetic symbolic of Gehenna as calling it hell or fires of hell meaning the grave/pit where many were burned to death there as the worm did not die there, meaning that there were always new maggots going through their life-cycles, feeding on the dead corpse. Also note Isaiah 66:24.

Thank you for a great post.

Tartaroo recons back I believe to the pit of suffering in Greek's mythos, Tartarus.

 

[for_his_glory]

And that is a problem created by the KJV. All three words simply cannot be translated as "hell."


Gehenna, as hell, does not mean the grave/pit. That is Hades. Gehenna and Hades are two different "places," or ideas.

I never said it was. This is what I said:
Matthew 5:29, 30; Mark 9:43-48 Jesus uses the prophetic symbolic of Gehenna as calling it hell or fires of hell meaning the grave/pit where many were burned to death there as the worm did not die there, meaning that there were always new maggots going through their life-cycles, feeding on the dead corpse. Also note Isaiah 66:24.

 

[for_his_glory]

Thank you for a great post.

Tartaroo recons back I believe to the pit of suffering in Greek's mythos, Tartarus.

Greek #5020 ταρταρόω tartaróō, tar-tar-o'-o; from Τάρταρος Tártaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:—cast down to hell.

Outline of Biblical Usage:

1. the name of the subterranean region, doleful and dark, regarded by the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead, where they suffer punishment for their evil deeds; it answers to Gehenna of the Jews

2. to thrust down to Tartarus, to hold captive in Tartarus

2 Peter 2:4

 

[Free]

I never said it was. This is what I said:
Matthew 5:29, 30; Mark 9:43-48 Jesus uses the prophetic symbolic of Gehenna as calling it hell or fires of hell meaning the grave/pit where many were burned to death there as the worm did not die there, meaning that there were always new maggots going through their life-cycles, feeding on the dead corpse. Also note Isaiah 66:24.

Which is exactly what I was responding to. To quote the above: "Jesus uses the prophetic symbolic of Gehenna as calling it hell or fires of hell meaning the grave/pit." You may not have meant that Gehenna is the grave/pit (which is Hades), but it sure sounds like it because you had just quoted from Strong's and that is the exact language for the meaning of Hades. Perhaps just calling it the "place where many were burned to death" would be better.

 

[for_his_glory]

Which is exactly what I was responding to. To quote the above: "Jesus uses the prophetic symbolic of Gehenna as calling it hell or fires of hell meaning the grave/pit." You may not have meant that Gehenna is the grave/pit (which is Hades), but it sure sounds like it because you had just quoted from Strong's and that is the exact language for the meaning of Hades. Perhaps just calling it the "place where many were burned to death" would be better.

I guess I should have explained that Gehenna was a place outside of the walls of Jerusalem that was used as a burning garbage dump and also a place where many dead criminals were brought to after they were crucified and thrown into the fires that burned there.

 

[Free]

I guess I should have explained that Gehenna was a place outside of the walls of Jerusalem that was used as a burning garbage dump and also a place where many dead criminals were brought to after they were crucified and thrown into the fires that burned there.

It isn’t that. I think most people, certainly most everyone involved in this discussion, know what Jesus was referring to when he mentioned Gehenna. My point is that it is best to leave out the mention of “grave/pit,” as that causes confusion.

 

[n2thelight]

For real though,we can't comprehend what forever is,but one thing I know for sure is our Father wouldn't let His children suffer anywhere forever much less being tortured at the same time.

I ask those with kids,could you?I know I couldn't.....