Bible Study The Law and Christ

[smaller]

There could be no sin until Adam and Eve sinned. Gen 3:6 (ESV) says Eve and Adam did it (Eve first and then Adam):

That's not the sight Jesus demands to see. Sin "always" starts from within, unseen:

Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20, Mark 4:15, Mark 7:21-23

And it's not a "maybe" that it transpires.

That's when sin began. There was no sin before this. That's Bible!

Uh, no. Bible says Adam (and likewise all natural people) are planted in weakness, corruption and dishonor, just like Adam was. 1 Cor. 15:42-46

I might even suggest that it is sin that causes believers to NOT see the obvious above.

 

[smaller]

And that is precisely my point. The Bible itself NEVER makes this statement about Adam. Adam was created to have fellowship with God, but he also had the capacity to make free moral choices. He chose to disobey even though he was given a commandment to obey. So it was not "a grain of evil seed" sown in the heart of Adam, but a choice which was made contrary to the commandment of God. Big difference.

Adam was a son of God (Luke 3:38) PLANTED in sinful flesh. Literally placed in a dust/clay/earth cocoon that was DIVINELY doomed from the beginning.

Jesus tells us exactly "how" sin transpired within Adam. From the moment God blessed Adam, THEN this happened.

Mark 4:15

Paul also tells us that Adam was planted in weakness, corruption and dishonor in a natural body. 1 Cor. 15:42-46.

re: the extra biblical books, IF they are in alignment with the accepted texts, I have no issues with same personally. There is quite a substantial amount of correlative information in many of same.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I withdrew my membership in the "my obedient sin dwelling in my flesh and evil present with me fan club" because the cost to belong, lying, became too expensive.

When you left, the membership of that club dropped to zero.

 

[smaller]

When you left the membership of that club dropped to zero.

I know others by their honesty. Or not.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I know others by their honesty. Or not.

Maybe someday I'll meet one of these Christians who dishonestly say they have no sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Sin "always" starts from within

Yes, 'starts'. Even you acknowledge that sin has a starting point.
Adam and Eve had the potential for sinning. That's what their nakedness is a picture of.
If they were born sinful they would have already been under the sentence of death before they ate. But as it is they did not die until they ate, sinning for the first time.

 

[smaller]

Yes, 'starts'. Even you acknowledge that sin has a starting point.

Uh huh. It's internal. It's "always present" in the flesh. It ALWAYS resists Gods Words, in disobedience, whether seen on the outside or not. It is the working of the "spirit of disobedience." Eph. 2:2.

Adam and Eve had the potential for sinning.

They were sinners from Day 1. The instant God sowed His Words upon them, Mark 4:15 transpired within their flesh.

That's what their nakedness is a picture of.

Sin always tries to "hide itself." Nakedness exposes it.

If they were born sinful they would have already been under the sentence of death before they ate. But as it is they did not die until they ate, sinning for the first time.

They died the instant the tempter entered their flesh. And that, by Divine Design. 1 Cor. 15:42-46.

God never intended to leave His son, Adam, bound into a walking clay cocoon. That was never Gods Intentions.

Gods Ways are this: First the natural, THEN the Spiritual.

It is the same principle, here:

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

 

[reba]

Drop the personal battles guys

 

[OzSpen]

That's not the sight Jesus demands to see. Sin "always" starts from within, unseen:

Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20, Mark 4:15, Mark 7:21-23

And it's not a "maybe" that it transpires.

Uh, no. Bible says Adam (and likewise all natural people) are planted in weakness, corruption and dishonor, just like Adam was. 1 Cor. 15:42-46

I might even suggest that it is sin that causes believers to NOT see the obvious above.

You are not accepting the Genesis text I provided but are reading into the Bible something that was not there in the beginning.

Oz

 

[smaller]

You are not accepting the Genesis text I provided but are reading into the Bible something that was not there in the beginning.

Oz

Sin dwelling in the flesh and evil present IS an internal matter beyond any doubt. And neither FORENSIC or EMPIRICALLY (externally) defined.

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

[LovethroughDove]

Tree of knowledge = The Law of Moses.

Tree of Life = Christ

?

I'm on a Proverbs kick right now and I saw this today.

Proverbs 3:18 She is a tree of life to those who embrace her; those who lay hold of her will be blessed.

This is speaking of wisdom and Holy wisdom comes from Christ, she's connected to him.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil has to do with knowing of evil now, before we only knew of good. The Law itself is not bad, but holy.....it only is to bring out the sin that is already in us because we know the evil now.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm on a Proverbs kick right now and I saw this today.

Proverbs 3:18 She is a tree of life to those who embrace her; those who lay hold of her will be blessed.

This is speaking of wisdom and Holy wisdom comes from Christ, she's connected to him.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil has to do with knowing of evil now, before we only knew of good. The Law itself is not bad, but holy.....it only is to bring out the sin that is already in us because we know the evil now.

Yes, and the tree Adam and Eve were prohibited from eating from could be understood as representing folly.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Yes, and the tree Adam and Eve were prohibited from eating from could be understood as representing folly.

I was just reading that also.

Proverbs 9:13-18 The woman Folly is loud; she is undisciplined and without knowledge. She sits at the door of her house, on a seat at the highest point of the city, calling out to those who pass by, who go straight on their way. "Let all who are simple come in here!" she says to those who lack judgment. "Stolen water is sweet; food eaten in secret is delicious!" But little do they know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of the grave.

 

[ezrider]

Yes, and the tree Adam and Eve were prohibited from eating from could be understood as representing folly.

When you begin to understand the wickedness that was found in the heart of Adam, then folly is actually quite fitting. Adam was created a Son of God. That was his position, that of a Son. But Adam the Son of God left his first estate when he sought to become like the Most High, knowing good and evil by eating the fruit of the tree that was forbidden to him. It is a story that echoes in the scriptures, a Son wanting to be like the Most High.

Isaiah 14:12-14
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
Let no man deceive you by any means:for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Jim Parker]

Bible says Adam (and likewise all natural people) are planted in weakness, corruption and dishonor, just like Adam was.

The Bible says Adam was created in the image and likeness of God. Gen 1:26-27
There is absolutely NO weakness, corruption or dishonor in God's image or likeness.

1 Cor. 15:42-46

I Cor 15:42 is talking about the resurrected body. It is NOT talking about sin in Adam.

 

[ezrider]

The Bible says Adam was created in the image and likeness of God. Gen 1:26-27
There is absolutely NO weakness, corruption or dishonor in God's image or likeness.

I Cor 15:42 is talking about the resurrected body. It is NOT talking about sin in Adam.

Where then did the wickedness come from that caused Adam to sin? If there was as you say absolutely no weakness or corruption, then why was Adam found to be corrupt?

 

[Jim Parker]

Where then did the wickedness come from that caused Adam to sin? If there was as you say absolutely no weakness or corruption, then why was Adam found to be corrupt?

I said there is no weakness or corruption in GOD's image and likeness.
And, as I pointed out, the 1 Cor 15 passage, on which Smaller based his erroneous conclusion, tells us about the resurrected body, not the condition of Adam.

 

[smaller]

The Bible says Adam was created in the image and likeness of God. Gen 1:26-27
There is absolutely NO weakness, corruption or dishonor in God's image or likeness.

I Cor 15:42 is talking about the resurrected body. It is NOT talking about sin in Adam.

Don't really know how it can be read that way a'tall.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Jesus tells us how this happens in Mark 4:15. I have no reason to believe Adam or any other sinner is exempt from that fact. These are mandatory and point directly to our need of His Resurrection, seeing the conditions we have been planted in.

 

[Jim Parker]

Don't really know how it can be read that way a'tall.

Yeah, I picked up on that.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

Our physical body is "corruptible." Before embalming was practiced widely, when you buried a body it rotted (see John 11:39) and "returned to dust." A dead body placed in a sarcophagus and covered with lime would be completely dissolved in 40 days.
The resurrected body will not ever break down in any manner. (Though people in hell would will wish it would just be burnt to nothingness.)

It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:

The dishonor is that sin was allowed into the body which caused it's death. That is contrary to the will of God that we NOT sin and, therefore, not die.

it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

The weakness was our inability to resist sin. The power is to never sin again.

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

Our natural body gets sick, ages, and eventually dies. Our spiritual body will have none of those problems.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The first Adam was made a living soul who sinned and died and through sin brought death to all mankind.
The "last Adan:, Jesus Christ, never sinned, rose from death to eternal life and will make all mankind alive (quickened) again at the resurrection. Those who are saved will have eternal life and those who are lost will have an eternal "living" death. (2nd death)

Again: There is absolutely NO weakness, corruption or dishonor in God's image or likeness.
The weakness is in man, not in God's image and likeness.
Man brings weakness, corruption and dishonor into his being by sinning.


iakov the fool




By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that may result from said reading. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. Enjoy the rest of your life.

 

[smaller]

Again: There is absolutely NO weakness, corruption or dishonor in God's image or likeness.
The weakness is in man, not in God's image and likeness.
Man brings weakness, corruption and dishonor into his being by sinning.

iakov the fool

Apparently you can't see the circular reasoning above.

Man is made in Gods image. And mans image is in weakness, corruption, dishonor, made so by God Himself.

That's why it's an "image" that was made as a PRECURSOR to the final product spelled out throughout the N.T. (and the O.T. as well.) That's exactly what God is saying. The natural body comes first. It is proceeded by the final product.

That's the way God does things. 1 Cor. 15:46.

A very repetitive pattern in the scriptures I might add. Even the showings in the natural in the O.T. are meant to precursor spiritual matters. Even Jesus was born a man and resurrected a Glorified Spiritual Body.

That's the setup that God has put forth.