Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The Law of God. OT. Applicable Today?

I hadn't really thought that much about this until now but it seems that if we can even find the rare occurrence where someone other than a physical descendant inheriting land than we cannot say that it is only the physical seed.
Does the scripture below point to a non-descendant inheriting land?


This area would have included Hebron
Num 34:12 And the border shall go down to Jordan, and the goings out of it shall be at the salt sea: this shall be your land with the coasts thereof round about.
Num 34:13 And Moses commanded the children of Israel, saying, This is the land which ye shall inherit by lot, which the LORD commanded to give unto the nine tribes, and to the half tribe:

Jos 14:5 As the LORD commanded Moses, so the children of Israel did, and they divided the land.
Jos 14:6 Then the children of Judah came unto Joshua in Gilgal: and Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite said unto him, Thou knowest the thing that the LORD said unto Moses the man of God concerning me and thee in Kadeshbarnea.
Jos 14:13 And Joshua blessed him, and gave unto Caleb the son of Jephunneh Hebron for an inheritance.
Jos 14:14 Hebron therefore became the inheritance of Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite unto this day, because that he wholly followed the LORD God of Israel.

Good point. To tell the truth, I hadn't really thought about it much until now either. I did a quick search on Bible Gateway, and I couldn't really find much about Caleb's genealogy. His father was, as the verse you quoted says, a Kenizzite (or Knezite, depending on your translation). The only reference to Kenizzites that I could find, other than "Caleb son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite" was one place in Genesis.

On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites and the Jebusites.” (Gen. 15:18-21 ESV)
So the Kenizzites seem to have been among the previous inhabitants of the land, but then we have this...

The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Send men to spy out the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the people of Israel. From each tribe of their fathers you shall send a man, every one a chief among them.” So Moses sent them from the wilderness of Paran, according to the command of the Lord, all of them men who were heads of the people of Israel. And these were their names: From the tribe of Reuben, Shammua the son of Zaccur; from the tribe of Simeon, Shaphat the son of Hori; from the tribe of Judah, Caleb the son of Jephunneh; from the tribe of Issachar, Igal the son of Joseph; from the tribe of Ephraim, Hoshea the son of Nun; from the tribe of Benjamin, Palti the son of Raphu; from the tribe of Zebulun, Gaddiel the son of Sodi; from the tribe of Joseph (that is, from the tribe of Manasseh), Gaddi the son of Susi; from the tribe of Dan, Ammiel the son of Gemalli; from the tribe of Asher, Sethur the son of Michael; from the tribe of Naphtali, Nahbi the son of Vophsi; from the tribe of Gad, Geuel the son of Machi. These were the names of the men whom Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Hoshea the son of Nun Joshua. (Num. 13:1-16 ESV)​

Here we are told that Caleb was a chief of the tribe of Judah, which was the "tribe of [his] father". I'm not sure how to understand this. Perhaps Jephunneh was part Kenizzite and part Israelite, or perhaps he was accepted into the tribe of Judah when he or his father converted to Judaism. I find it hard to imagine a foreigner being made a chief of one of the tribes, so it must have been his father who converted, if that's what happened. If Jephunneh was part Israelite, it would be easier to understand. Either way, it does seem to be a case of someone who is at least not wholly descended from Abraham inheriting the land. I'll have to think about this some more.

The TOG​
 
Good point. To tell the truth, I hadn't really thought about it much until now either. I did a quick search on Bible Gateway, and I couldn't really find much about Caleb's genealogy. His father was, as the verse you quoted says, a Kenizzite (or Knezite, depending on your translation). The only reference to Kenizzites that I could find, other than "Caleb son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite" was one place in Genesis.

On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites and the Jebusites.” (Gen. 15:18-21 ESV)
So the Kenizzites seem to have been among the previous inhabitants of the land, but then we have this...

The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Send men to spy out the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the people of Israel. From each tribe of their fathers you shall send a man, every one a chief among them.” So Moses sent them from the wilderness of Paran, according to the command of the Lord, all of them men who were heads of the people of Israel. And these were their names: From the tribe of Reuben, Shammua the son of Zaccur; from the tribe of Simeon, Shaphat the son of Hori; from the tribe of Judah, Caleb the son of Jephunneh; from the tribe of Issachar, Igal the son of Joseph; from the tribe of Ephraim, Hoshea the son of Nun; from the tribe of Benjamin, Palti the son of Raphu; from the tribe of Zebulun, Gaddiel the son of Sodi; from the tribe of Joseph (that is, from the tribe of Manasseh), Gaddi the son of Susi; from the tribe of Dan, Ammiel the son of Gemalli; from the tribe of Asher, Sethur the son of Michael; from the tribe of Naphtali, Nahbi the son of Vophsi; from the tribe of Gad, Geuel the son of Machi. These were the names of the men whom Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Hoshea the son of Nun Joshua. (Num. 13:1-16 ESV)​

Here we are told that Caleb was a chief of the tribe of Judah, which was the "tribe of [his] father". I'm not sure how to understand this. Perhaps Jephunneh was part Kenizzite and part Israelite, or perhaps he was accepted into the tribe of Judah when he or his father converted to Judaism. I find it hard to imagine a foreigner being made a chief of one of the tribes, so it must have been his father who converted, if that's what happened. If Jephunneh was part Israelite, it would be easier to understand. Either way, it does seem to be a case of someone who is at least not wholly descended from Abraham inheriting the land. I'll have to think about this some more.

The TOG​

I read that slightly different than you do I think.
When it says everyone of them 'a chief' I don't think that means they had been made a chief over the tribe, I think it simply means that they were people of status among that tribe. Which Joshua had done this for Caleb.

I've been thinking some more about this. I think the Orthodox Jews today in Israel abide by this doctrine today.
If someone who is not Jewish by birth "mother being Jewish, according to the Orthodox Jews" or even of non-Jewish heritage, completely convert to Judaism I think they are given full status as member of the nation (State) of Israel, inheritance rights.
I have read that the Orthodox Jews are fully in charge of deciding who has these rights. If someone claims they have converted to Judaism there is a through investigation done. They must have gone through the right of circumcision and through the education that all Jewish boys and girls get and I don't know what else. All this has to be done by rabbi's that are approved by the OJews in Israel.

Now finding this scripture that makes more sense why they would do this. I think maybe it comes into their right of return laws, but I'm not exactly sure.
 
I hadn't really thought that much about this until now but it seems that if we can even find the rare occurrence where someone other than a physical descendant inheriting land than we cannot say that it is only the physical seed.
Does the scripture below point to a non-descendant inheriting land?


This area would have included Hebron
Num 34:12 And the border shall go down to Jordan, and the goings out of it shall be at the salt sea: this shall be your land with the coasts thereof round about.
Num 34:13 And Moses commanded the children of Israel, saying, This is the land which ye shall inherit by lot, which the LORD commanded to give unto the nine tribes, and to the half tribe:

Jos 14:5 As the LORD commanded Moses, so the children of Israel did, and they divided the land.
Jos 14:6 Then the children of Judah came unto Joshua in Gilgal: and Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite said unto him, Thou knowest the thing that the LORD said unto Moses the man of God concerning me and thee in Kadeshbarnea.
Jos 14:13 And Joshua blessed him, and gave unto Caleb the son of Jephunneh Hebron for an inheritance.
Jos 14:14 Hebron therefore became the inheritance of Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite unto this day, because that he wholly followed the LORD God of Israel.

All the saints will be with The Lord when His feet touch down on the mount of Olives.

And we will forever be with The Lord...
Wherever He is.

Jerusalem.

JLB
 
Last edited:
All the saints will be with The Lord when His feet touch down on the mount of Olives.

And we will forever be with The Lord...
Wherever He is.

Jerusalem.

JLB

Hi JLB,

We aren't talking about end times. Past and current.
 
It's not a matter of being released from the OT Mosaic and Levitical laws, it is a matter of that covenant now being obsolete.
We are under the NEW covenant and that covenant is based on Jesus setting us free from the law of sin and death, and the Holy Spirit baptising us with His power and writing His laws on our hearts. The Bible is there to confirm this, and to not let us stray from who God is.
 
Good point. To tell the truth, I hadn't really thought about it much until now either. I did a quick search on Bible Gateway, and I couldn't really find much about Caleb's genealogy. His father was, as the verse you quoted says, a Kenizzite (or Knezite, depending on your translation). The only reference to Kenizzites that I could find, other than "Caleb son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite" was one place in Genesis.

On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites and the Jebusites.” (Gen. 15:18-21 ESV)
So the Kenizzites seem to have been among the previous inhabitants of the land, but then we have this...

The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Send men to spy out the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the people of Israel. From each tribe of their fathers you shall send a man, every one a chief among them.” So Moses sent them from the wilderness of Paran, according to the command of the Lord, all of them men who were heads of the people of Israel. And these were their names: From the tribe of Reuben, Shammua the son of Zaccur; from the tribe of Simeon, Shaphat the son of Hori; from the tribe of Judah, Caleb the son of Jephunneh; from the tribe of Issachar, Igal the son of Joseph; from the tribe of Ephraim, Hoshea the son of Nun; from the tribe of Benjamin, Palti the son of Raphu; from the tribe of Zebulun, Gaddiel the son of Sodi; from the tribe of Joseph (that is, from the tribe of Manasseh), Gaddi the son of Susi; from the tribe of Dan, Ammiel the son of Gemalli; from the tribe of Asher, Sethur the son of Michael; from the tribe of Naphtali, Nahbi the son of Vophsi; from the tribe of Gad, Geuel the son of Machi. These were the names of the men whom Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Hoshea the son of Nun Joshua. (Num. 13:1-16 ESV)​

Here we are told that Caleb was a chief of the tribe of Judah, which was the "tribe of [his] father". I'm not sure how to understand this. Perhaps Jephunneh was part Kenizzite and part Israelite, or perhaps he was accepted into the tribe of Judah when he or his father converted to Judaism. I find it hard to imagine a foreigner being made a chief of one of the tribes, so it must have been his father who converted, if that's what happened. If Jephunneh was part Israelite, it would be easier to understand. Either way, it does seem to be a case of someone who is at least not wholly descended from Abraham inheriting the land. I'll have to think about this some more.

The TOG​
I read that slightly different than you do I think.
When it says everyone of them 'a chief' I don't think that means they had been made a chief over the tribe, I think it simply means that they were people of status among that tribe. Which Joshua had done this for Caleb.

I've been thinking some more about this. I think the Orthodox Jews today in Israel abide by this doctrine today.
If someone who is not Jewish by birth "mother being Jewish, according to the Orthodox Jews" or even of non-Jewish heritage, completely convert to Judaism I think they are given full status as member of the nation (State) of Israel, inheritance rights.
I have read that the Orthodox Jews are fully in charge of deciding who has these rights. If someone claims they have converted to Judaism there is a through investigation done. They must have gone through the right of circumcision and through the education that all Jewish boys and girls get and I don't know what else. All this has to be done by rabbi's that are approved by the OJews in Israel.

Now finding this scripture that makes more sense why they would do this. I think maybe it comes into their right of return laws, but I'm not exactly sure.


Were Kennizites a clan from the Edomites ?
 
It's not a matter of being released from the OT Mosaic and Levitical laws, it is a matter of that covenant now being obsolete.
We are under the NEW covenant and that covenant is based on Jesus setting us free from the law of sin and death, and the Holy Spirit baptising us with His power and writing His laws on our hearts. The Bible is there to confirm this, and to not let us stray from who God is.


Yes sir!

Agreed.

Also, let's not insinuate that the New Covenant is just for the Jews and those who convert to Judaism, as some Messianics try to do.


JLB
 
Yes sir!

Agreed.

Also, let's not insinuate that the New Covenant is just for the Jews and those who convert to Judaism, as some Messianics try to do.


JLB
We are not Israel. We will never be Israel. Our home is not on earth. Our home is in heavenly places. We will not meet the Lord on the Mt Olives. We will meet the Lord in the air.
 
Now you know why I asked you the difference between the Torah and the law of Moses.

Jews and House of Israel are the same, but given the context could mean Jews = Children of Judah, however the New Testament does not make this distinction.

The New Covenant, like the law of Moses must take into account the Abrahamic Covenant as the Master Covenant that these are a part of.

The law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant.

The New Covenant replaced the law of Moses and is a fresh version, not different from the Abrahamic Covenant.

Once this is understood, then there is room for discussion in this matter.

If one tries to isolate the law from the Abrahamic Covenant, then there will be misunderstanding.


JLB


But then what laws did Jesus give, if we are under HIS new covenant are we to obey HIS laws? John 13:34 "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." Mathew 6:24""No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." So love all. What about the homosexuals, transexuals, and lesbians? Love them as a human being just do not BE like them? Assuming one wants to inherit and enter the kingdom of God? 1 Corinthians 6:9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,"

Or is loving one another a good fatherly way to tell young children how to "handle" the devil? That maybe the older they get, the further that they walk with God, they will one day understand why we must love one another. Because hate comes from the devil.........darkness..........giving in allows that darkness into our body. At which point we fall into chaos and sin, and stray off the narrow path of Jesus Christ.
 
But then what laws did Jesus give, if we are under HIS new covenant are we to obey HIS laws? John 13:34 "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." Mathew 6:24""No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." So love all. What about the homosexuals, transexuals, and lesbians? Love them as a human being just do not BE like them? Assuming one wants to inherit and enter the kingdom of God? 1 Corinthians 6:9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,"

Or is loving one another a good fatherly way to tell young children how to "handle" the devil? That maybe the older they get, the further that they walk with God, they will one day understand why we must love one another. Because hate comes from the devil.........darkness..........giving in allows that darkness into our body. At which point we fall into chaos and sin, and stray off the narrow path of Jesus Christ.
We are not under the law, but under grace. The common misunderstanding is that we need the law to stop sinning. The law was not designed to keep man from sinning. The law sets sin into motion. It is through Jesus Christ, that we have been made dead to sin(our relationship to sin is dead, that old man was crucified on the cross), dead to the law, and alive unto God. It is by grace that we now have the power to overcome sin. If you are under a law, the you are in the flesh and cannot please God. If you are under grace, then you are in the spirit and can please God. Walk in the newness of life that has been given to you.
 
We are not under the law, but under grace. The common misunderstanding is that we need the law to stop sinning. The law was not designed to keep man from sinning. The law sets sin into motion. It is through Jesus Christ, that we have been made dead to sin(our relationship to sin is dead, that old man was crucified on the cross), dead to the law, and alive unto God. It is by grace that we now have the power to overcome sin. If you are under a law, the you are in the flesh and cannot please God. If you are under grace, then you are in the spirit and can please God. Walk in the newness of life that has been given to you.


I understand that. God's love and the free gift of eternal life is a grace. Not a work. (or earned through work I meant) But the book of James says faith without works is dead. James 2:14 "
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." Sorta a common sense the spirit gives you. I get that too. But you did not answer my question. I actually understand Flesh VS Spirit, But Jesus Christ gave his own laws and criteria for entering the kingdom of God.

I'm living proof the spirit exist outside the bible or the church. But without the bible how can one learn about sin and iniquity? Or the many lives of the characters therein? Or who was Jesus and what he did for us?

Homosexuals love each other, transexuals love what they are doing, You can say the spirit gives you the common sense to not be either one, (and it does). But what then of the bible? Put it on the shelf and forget it because we are freed from the law by Christ?

You can look out here at these militaristic christian groups like the west boro babtist church. They will be out with road signs mostly pointing out OT laws against gays and lesbians. But is that truly the christian way to protest it? I thought the bible gives you the proper procedure to handle a brother that sins, Mathew 18 :15-17 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector"

Freed from the law by Jesus Christ, but in Revelation 3:15-16 "15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

In that light the west boro babtist church doesn't look so bad. But still they are not doing it the right way as according to scripture. What about Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego when they wouldn't kneel when Nebachadnezzar played the music? They got marched into a furnace for what they believed. Was that lukewarm?


But then one has to wonder...what is a "drunkard"? The guy that drinks to drunkeness everyday? once a day? once a week? once a year? What about a fornicator? If two people love each other and have sexual relations out of wed lock is that fornication? Or the one night stand at the bar?

God knows whats in your heart though, but the bible is clear that those two things will not inherit the kingdom of God. You got guys on youtube that say the holy spirit is all you need, you dont need the bible. In ways I am starting to understand that, but its only for those who have taken a long enough walk with God, aka carry their crosses and partake in Christ suffering that you can get to that point.

But the question looms...what does God the father consider fornication and drunkards? Living without worries and only by the spirit would mean never looking at the word again. But what about the lost that will not go to church? At what point do we give up and walk away? I do not hate sinners, I hate the sin. But the spirit gives me the common sense not to hang out with many people I would have years ago. And much of this came to me long before I read the bible. But I never looked at things like adultery and fornication the same way after I read the bible. Reading the Old Testament gave me the God's eye view of people from like a bird looking down. That I could see things that these people did good and what they did bad. It took me reading the bible to actually know what this mysterious and fatherly thing was around me "the spirit of truth". That would very oddly inhibit my path when I would try certain things. At that point I was trusting in God as the ultimate creator and controller of the universe. The more I did this the stronger this "force" became. And everything falls into place because of Gods will. I saw many examples of this. However its not till you read the bible that you really learn about the trinity. So it is true what many say, the spirit leads you to read the word. And not just any bible...the KJV. This sense of truth and certainty let me know I needed to read it, and specifically it and not an ESV or NIV for example.

Reading the old testament sent me through a pharacee stage........where I started condemning all around me with the law. It wasnt until much later I started realizing that I was freed from the law by Christ sacrifice. So in essence, I guess I need to go back to living only by the spirit? But what if what i'm doing right now is what God wants me to do? God has a plan, that is much greater than me.

You just don't understand how I feel, I was born with a strange mental illness that haunted me most of my life. Sometimes this illness basically took reality away from me. And I can never forget some of the things it put me through. So I can never get over the feeling I am gonna walk around a corner and step on a landmine. If that makes sense. Aka screw up, and not do something right that God wanted me to do while alive. The older I get and the further I follow Christ down the narrow path it is getting somewhat easier, but at the same time it feels like the stakes are higher the more you know.
 
Last edited:
Yes sir!
Agreed.
Also, let's not insinuate that the New Covenant is just for the Jews and those who convert to Judaism, as some Messianics try to do.
JLB

Thanks JLB, and I agree, but also let's be careful about how the New Covenant is not also replacement theology. MJ's are far too sectarian IMO, but so are those that purport Christians have replaced Jews as God people.
In God's view, there is neither Jew Nor Gentile under the NC, but His promise to Israel under the OC is not complete until Revelation.
 
Thanks JLB, and I agree, but also let's be careful about how the New Covenant is not also replacement theology. MJ's are far too sectarian IMO, but so are those that purport Christians have replaced Jews as God people.
In God's view, there is neither Jew Nor Gentile under the NC, but His promise to Israel under the OC is not complete until Revelation.

Yes sir!

It's no replacement theology.

We are "grafted in" to the natural olive tree, to the commonwealth of Israel.

However we are not grafted into the covenant of Sinai, but the Covenant of Abraham.


JLB
 
here's a can of worms for you brothers and sisters. Are we released from the Law? Is the OT and the Torah even applicable to the modern New Testament church? Some say no, some say yes. Can we connect the old testament to the new? Should we even bother reading the Torah?

I say yes, brothers and sisters. Let me show you how I connected them. Let's start in the new Testament.

Matthew 25:1-13
1 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

6 “And at midnight a cry was heard:‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming./

I think that the oil for the lamps must be truth. Oil was used to light the Minora. The first and foremost use of oil was to light the lamps. Light of the minora represents truth. Who is the light of the world? None other than the Messiah, Yeshua (The Word). (1 John 1:1, the Word became flesh). What was the Word in the first century when there was no new Testament yet? The only Word of God to a first century Jew was the Torah, Prophets, and the Tanach..The Word of Elohim. So could it be that the parable of the 10 virgins was as simple as they all had lamps (a religious system) but only 5 had enough truth (Torah, truth) to last through the night. Truth is always depicted as light, lies are darkness...

Ok, on to "I do not know you"... Matthew 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who work iniquity!’ (same phrase as in Matthew 25:11) "I do not know you" is defined in Matthew 7 as those who work iniquity. Iniquity...off to Strongs...;)

Iniquity G458
ἀνομία
anomia
an-om-ee'-ah
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness./

So there you have it. Also, righteousness is defined in both Greek and Hebrew as those who follow the divine law of God. So grace notwithstanding, we are to keep gods law and the Torah. You bet brothers and sisters, we have one book there not two where one is outdated and does not apply.

I have not read this whole thread, so I may only be repeating what someone else has already brought forward. The only laws that matter are, Love God with all your mind heart and soul and your neighbor as yourself. The difference between the Old Testament and the New is that the latter is by Spirit rather than by obedience to the letter. That is why being faithful to the Eternal Spirit of Love is necessary to fulfill the intent of the Law.

Respectfully, I do not think the oil is representing Truth. It seems to me more likely that Truth would be the Light of the lamps. Moreover, half of the virgins are deemed to be wise, because they bring extra oil in the event that the wait would be long. This indicates to me that the oil is something needed to persevere in the long wait. Also, I believe the word iniquity simply means unjust or unfair as in judgment. Hence iniquity was found in Satan. Therefore one cannot be loving others as they would want to beloved and have iniquity.
 
BigSodaExposer, "What does the Heavenly Father" consider _______________ and ________ and _________ and so on, is a very good way of putting it(questions) for answers.
And the Heavenly Father is the Best One to answer, (of course!), but His answers sometimes take years or decades ! :) (thankfully!) (because HE KNOWS the Perfect Time to Answer, we don't).

However also, realize HE SAYS the man who loves Him will devour His Word (paraphrase and experience - "devour" is much better than study or analytical tearing apart).
Yes, study has it's time and place, especially study of Yhwh's Word. (Relying on Yhwh for the understanding and revelation of "What does the Heavenly Father" consider? )
There's tens of thousands of volumes out there to look for, look through, read, compare, analyze and so forth. Yet unless the Father allows it, nothing is received.(nor understood). (have to look it up later)

Remember the scribes and pharisees (memorizers, scholars, teachers of the Torah(Tanahk)(Bible) ) --- they were the most educated men of their time.
And Jesus told them "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you will find life. Well, here I Am. " and they rejected Him. (that's paraphrased, but the meaning is kept).

And they (the Bible scholars and teachers and leaders) crucified the Messiah.

....
..
.
what does the Heavenly Father consider ? His Word says that

as Jesus Praised Him He Said "
Matthew 11:25
<< Matthew 11:24 | Matthew 11:26 >>
En Español
Matthew 11:25 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank Thee, O Father, Lord of Heaven and earth, because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Matthew 11:25 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter
25 At that season Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes:

Matthew 11:25 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter
25 At that time Jesus began to say, I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth [and I acknowledge openly and joyfully to Your honor], that You have hidden these things from the wise and clever and learned, and revealed them to babies [to the childish, untaught, and unskilled].

Matthew 11:25 (CEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter
The Father and the Son

25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you’ve hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have shown them to babies.

Matthew 11:25 (CJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter
25 It was at that time that Yeshua said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you concealed these things from the sophisticated and educated and revealed them to ordinary folks.

http://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Matthew 11:25
 
We are not Israel. We will never be Israel. Our home is not on earth. Our home is in heavenly places. We will not meet the Lord on the Mt Olives. We will meet the Lord in the air.

Our Home is Earth.

We will go to heaven until we return with Jesus for the Resurrection, whereby we will receive immortal bodies [for earth] that will never die.

We will be here with Him for 1000 years and then the New jerusalem will come down out of heaven.

We will dwell there with God.


JLB
 
I have not read this whole thread, so I may only be repeating what someone else has already brought forward. The only laws that matter are, Love God with all your mind heart and soul and your neighbor as yourself. The difference between the Old Testament and the New is that the latter is by Spirit rather than by obedience to the letter. That is why being faithful to the Eternal Spirit of Love is necessary to fulfill the intent of the Law.

Respectfully, I do not think the oil is representing Truth. It seems to me more likely that Truth would be the Light of the lamps. Moreover, half of the virgins are deemed to be wise, because they bring extra oil in the event that the wait would be long. This indicates to me that the oil is something needed to persevere in the long wait. Also, I believe the word iniquity simply means unjust or unfair as in judgment. Hence iniquity was found in Satan. Therefore one cannot be loving others as they would want to beloved and have iniquity.


Read in context we see that it pretty much says that if one keeps both of those commandments, that we fulfill the law.

Matthew 22:36-
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets./

In spirit like you say.
On the oil, I figured that scripture says the Jesus is the light of the world, so if we have enough 'truth' in us (from His Word) then the greater He/His light can shine through us, and give us the ability to resist deception and temptation.
 
Back
Top