Bible Study The Law of God - The Law of Moses - The Law

[Nathan]

Thank you.

Now tell me what Paul did immediately after that birth as he continues to speak.

He did not consult with anyone; that is, with flesh and blood.

 

[Nathan]

Thank you.

Now tell me what Paul did immediately after that birth as he continues to speak.

Or I could just lay it all out as I see it and let you comment on what I say?

I am up for whatever. Your call.

 

[Who Says]

He did not consult with anyone; that is, with flesh and blood.

That is right. Any delay in my return responses are caused in that your posts do not come up unless I close out and renter the sight.

I will begin.

 

[Who Says]

I am up for whatever. Your call.

First ponder what Paul told the Corinthians describing it as a late birth:

1 Corinthians 15:1 ¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Paul is clearly here describing his experience on the road to Damascus.

 

[Who Says]

We see that same thing about Galatians 1:15

After all if he were talking about his literal birth and infancy why would he say: "immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days."

We can see this is also referencing what happened to him on the road to Damascus.

So now we need to turn our attention to figuring out who the mother is from whose womb he was separated.

 

[Who Says]

Looking in that same chapter just before he stated what he did at Gal 1:15 we see that Paul says he was at the time of his conversion on that road to Damascus: Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

The anti-typical Hagar you have read about at Galatians chapter 4 is the mother Paul speaks of and he saw himself as if in her womb being developed to God profitting in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation.

Now lets talk about Gal chapter 4 after I take a short break to attend a personal need. After which I will tie Revelation in to it.

 

[Who Says]

So looking at Galatians chapter 4:

Galatians 4:1 ¶Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Paul is there classifying the Jerusalem of flesh as part of the "elements of the world" under wich they were in bondage as children. As I said they indeed saw themselves as yet developing to God in her womb and were extremely zealous in their defence of her and that belief. Which zeal led Paul to persecute the Christians. The "tutors and governors" is that Old Law and its priests.

Here is that mother: Galatians 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

But who is this mother? Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Galatians 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

To answer that we turn to Revelation because for us that is the shortest and quickest approach.

 

[Who Says]

Revelation 12:1 ¶And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This woman is the heavenly Jerusalem - God's main heavenly kingdom.

The child she is travailing to give birth to is also a kingdom. It is the extension of God's heavenly kingdom that will take over the rule of this earth called "the New Jerusalem".

That is why it is like a stone cut out of God's main mountain or kingdom: Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

The floor is open for comments.

 

[Nathan]

I agree with what you said. I too see it that way. But I am not understanding your point. Could you explain a little more?

 

[Nathan]

Let me ask you this. I did it over in the other thread also, but since we have the topic going here too; it seems to me that the strong delusion would fit in here somewhere. Right or wrong?

 

[Nathan]

After contemplating it for a while, I believe I understand. Maybe I was trying to think to hard.

Indeed! We are not children of the slave woman, we are not children of the law. We are children of the Spirit. The free woman. We are not in slavery to the law. Agreed!

You do understand that we live in this sinful flesh, right? Until He comes again the very body we live in is contrary to Gods laws. ALL of them. In eternity we will be free in our heavenly bodies. There will be no sin. No need for the law.

And us now, we can live as if we were there in the Spirit! In the Spirit we are completely free to serve as He leads. But, alas, the flesh likes to raise it's ugly head. We know when it's rearing it because it's actions are contrary to Gods laws. Indeed, it cannot submit to them. Impossible!

But we, who are in the Spirit, can see this for what it is and then put it to death! We cannot do it ourselves, and it for sure will not happen in the flesh. Only through grace. Therefore, God resists the proud(one who thinks he can do it alone), but gives grace to the humble(those who put their hope and trust in God).

 

[Who Says]

Let me ask you this. I did it over in the other thread also, but since we have the topic going here too; it seems to me that the strong delusion would fit in here somewhere. Right or wrong?

That Strong Delusion has very much to do with the dragon that we saw at Revelation 12 giving opposition to the birth of Christ's kingdom which is to rule on this earth.

But it gets more subtle than most realize. And that is why they end up getting sucked into it.

 

[Nathan]

We can never, should never, and will never be; justified, glorified, sanctified, righteuosified(I made that word up), purified, or any other 'ifieds' by the flesh or the law.

The law is only there to point us to Christ. For us who believe, it's to point us back when we have started to stray. For those who have never believed, it is to point out their need for a savior.

But the fact is that until heaven and earth remain, this heaven and earth remains, the law will never be changed or abolished. It will do the work it was meant to do till He returns.

Praise God He has given us His Spirit and called us to a eternal inheritance with the saints before us.

 

[Who Says]

After contemplating it for a while, I believe I understand. Maybe I was trying to think to hard.

Indeed! We are not children of the slave woman, we are not children of the law. We are children of the Spirit. The free woman. We are not in slavery to the law. Agreed!

You do understand that we live in this sinful flesh, right? Until He comes again the very body we live in is contrary to Gods laws. ALL of them. In eternity we will be free in our heavenly bodies. There will be no sin. No need for the law.

And us now, we can live as if we were there in the Spirit! In the Spirit we are completely free to serve as He leads. But, alas, the flesh likes to raise it's ugly head. We know when it's rearing it because it's actions are contrary to Gods laws. Indeed, it cannot submit to them. Impossible!

But we, who are in the Spirit, can see this for what it is and then put it to death! We cannot do it ourselves, and it for sure will not happen in the flesh. Only through grace. Therefore, God resists the proud(one who thinks he can do it alone), but gives grace to the humble(those who put their hope and trust in God).

That is exactly what Paul said: Romans 7:22 "For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

Then in chapter 8 he moves onto discussing our walk to maturity in Christ.

 

[Nathan]

That Strong Delusion has very much to do with the dragon that we saw at Revelation 12 giving opposition to the birth of Christ's kingdom which is to rule on this earth.

But it gets more subtle than most realize. And that is why they end up getting sucked into it.

Ahh...but IF it were possible, but it will not deceive the ellect. That, brother, is a word of faith you can live in.

 

[Who Says]

What I am saying is this: 1 John 4:8 "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

Now if God is love what would his spirit be? And don't misunderstand we know that God is more than just a concept like love and so we know that also of the holy spirit.

But if God is love then what would his holy spirit be?

And what would the Son be?

They have a complete and total unity.

 

[Who Says]

Ahh...but IF it were possible, but it will not deceive the ellect. That, brother, is a word of faith you can live in.

Exactly.

But also good reason to make sure we are keeping ourselves in God's love.

Jude 1:21 "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."

 

[Who Says]

We can never, should never, and will never be; justified, glorified, sanctified, righteuosified(I made that word up), purified, or any other 'ifieds' by the flesh or the law.

The law is only there to point us to Christ. For us who believe, it's to point us back when we have started to stray. For those who have never believed, it is to point out their need for a savior.

But the fact is that until heaven and earth remain, this heaven and earth remains, the law will never be changed or abolished. It will do the work it was meant to do till He returns.

Praise God He has given us His Spirit and called us to a eternal inheritance with the saints before us.

Amen !!! You nailed it !!!

I hope you don't mind my quoting you there. That is beautifully expressed and will benefit many to hear.

 

[Who Says]

I have observed that many of the churches end up practicing their faith in the same or similar way that those under that Old Law kept that Old Law by its letter.

They end up rebuilding a sort of version of that Old Law to the setting in the background the lessons of God's love.

Their people preach what they learn in a way that seems quite harsh and critical turning many away from not just them but from belief that there is anything at all to be offered through Christianity.

That is the way the soil developed from which grows the man of sin son of perdition who is shown setting himself up among God's people. God's people, the church is the temple wherein God dwells if it like Christ's body keeps itself holy that God's spirit may take up dwelling in it.

This is why Paul gave the counsel here:

1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 ¶Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 ¶I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

When he said to this next thing he meant protecting God's spirit in the congregation dwelling among them: 1 Corinthians 5:5 "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

Get that flesh out of Christ's body!!! Keep the body holy that you do not lose God's spirit in it due to unholiness.

This casting out of such a man is what the stoning under the Old Law pictured. Clearing those who resist God's holiness away from us. that is also referred to as purging the body. Of course purging also means helping all of us clear out our flesh from that body. Christ's body cannot be our flesh, it must be his.

And that is where this comes in: Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

I would need to talk about the use of plural pronouns there in the Greek to show that it is the body of christ meant when it says "you". You can read in the preface of a JKV about plural and singular pronouns. The NKJV lost that excellent feature which was a part of the KJV.

But that quickening of our mortal bodies refers to how God's spirit enlivens us with power over our old rebelloius flesh so that it does not interfere in the body of Christ and cause unholiness to that body.

 

[Nathan]

What I am saying is this: 1 John 4:8 "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

Now if God is love what would his spirit be? And don't misunderstand we know that God is more than just a concept like love and so we know that also of the holy spirit.

But if God is love then what would his holy spirit be?

And what would the Son be?

They have a complete and total unity.

But we must also not neglect the very next chapter. Love above all, obedience working through faith and NOT self willpower. It's a witness of two. There cannot be one without the other and it be truth.