Bible Study The Law of God - The Law of Moses - The Law

[Elijah674]

Love. What was the description given of the Matt 25:33-40 ones?

The claim of the Matt 7:22 was that they did these things, but their was no law in them. The law that reproves and corrects us when we go astray, the same law that has been doing the same thing, since the foundation of the world. The Matt 7:22 ones thought they were doing good, but their was no law, so they had no love.

Righteousness(law) points to God which points to Christ which points to love. Then we, receive that love, and in like manner point to Christ which points to God which points to righteousness(law).

Its all connected.

OK: So now please tell the forum how it can be known for sure, and that it is not what we think & might claim, that we know, but what God commands for that ANYONE TO KNOWS THAT THEY LOVE GOD, ok? Acts 5:32 might help??

 

[Nathan]

OK: So now please tell the forum how it can be known for sure, and that it is not what we think & might claim, that we know, but what God commands for that ANYONE TO KNOWS THAT THEY LOVE GOD, ok? Acts 5:32 might help??

The same as it was from the beginning. Obedience. Adam was a perfect man. Created perfect. Yet still needed to obey.

Gen 2:15-17 The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Gen 3:8-10 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself." He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"

Even perfect Adam had commands given to him. But unlike him, we know for sure what sin does. Adam had never seen sin, nor known what it did. His sin, although was willful, was not presumptuous.

 

[Jake]

The whole idea behind the 7th day Sabbath was to keep men focused on God. There is nothing wrong with that, there is nothing 'sinful' about that. Its a show of our love for Him.

We have grown away from that. Need proof? We do not even do as Christ said in Matthew chapter 6. We take that as a "do this if you want" approach. Do we really not think about to much what we will wear, eat, and sleep? Sure we do. Look at the news reports sometime. A house burns down and what do you see? People crying and weeping over the lost things inside their house.

We have grown closer and closer to this world, while distancing ourself from our true home. We have made a "separation". Look at church buildings today. Wow! The very buildings that we supposedly worship a God who is going to destroy the earth. Hmm....something sounds odd. The "church" today is richer than it ever has been in centuries past. Rich, filthy stinking rich. Its not just a coincidence, and its not just the culture. The "church" is very wealthy. If you look at the amount of money that flows through it, and is put into it, its amazing.

Statistics; This is for the SBC ALONE! "As of Feb. 28, Cooperative Program gifts received by the Executive Committee totaled $82,893,069.47, or $1,003,117.86 behind the $83,896,187.33 received at the end of February 2010."

Thats in a single year. One year. One denomination. One section of the denomination.

This should strike some bells...

Rev 3:14-22 "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: 'The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.

"'I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.

I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.

Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"

Jesus is speaking to a church who thinks they have it down pat. But their is no 'righteousness' among them. They are naked. There is no wisdom or understanding among them. They are blind. There is no purity of heart among them. They are poor.

Yet in all these things, they consider themselves quite the opposite. Why? Because they are looking at their fleshly desires and attributing them to 'blessings' from God. Pitiful.

If we really believe that we are in the last days, then we would really believe that this church period speaks of us. And if we really believe that, then we would consider the words of our Master. We have lost our focus. The commandments are there to point us to the right way. But we are just too blind to see. God help us.

Yes, I agree, and we had this discussion in your pastor thread, all of this is happening because the church buildings have allowed the world to come in. You and I do not even attend a church building because of this! This goes much, much deeper, it's the feel good mentality, the easy believism, just accept Christ and you're good to go.
Most churches teach false doctrine, look at the OSAS doctrine, the prosperity gospel, the church buildings today are faithfulless and that is what it is - unbelief.
Pastors, and other church leaders, are not even called by God, they just go into that ministry for no other reason than they want to do it.

I could continue but it gets me too upset. HA!

 

[whitney]

Revelation 12:1 ¶And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This woman is the heavenly Jerusalem - God's main heavenly kingdom.

The child she is travailing to give birth to is also a kingdom. It is the extension of God's heavenly kingdom that will take over the rule of this earth called "the New Jerusalem".

That is why it is like a stone cut out of God's main mountain or kingdom: Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

The floor is open for comments.

As I was reading through this thread, I stumbled upon this little gem, haven't a clue to why it's located in the midst of Moses' Law , nonetheless, very few people can see this truth in totality, I am learning myself.

Colossians 1:27 to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

2 Thes 1:10-12 when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be marvelled at in all them that believed (because our testimony unto you was believed) in that day. To which end we also pray always for you, that our God may count you worthy of your calling, and fulfil every desire of goodness and every work of faith, with power; that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Blessings.

 

[Nathan]

Yes, I agree, and we had this discussion in your pastor thread, all of this is happening because the church buildings have allowed the world to come in. You and I do not even attend a church building because of this! This goes much, much deeper, it's the feel good mentality, the easy believism, just accept Christ and you're good to go.
Most churches teach false doctrine, look at the OSAS doctrine, the prosperity gospel, the church buildings today are faithfulless and that is what it is - unbelief.
Pastors, and other church leaders, are not even called by God, they just go into that ministry for no other reason than they want to do it.

I could continue but it gets me too upset. HA!

Right. But just to clarify. I still go to the local gathering on Sundays and Wednesday's I have not been called away from being there at that time. I believe that there are a great many people that go there that are truly seeking God. I believe that He calls to people inside the "churches" as we know them today. People need to be there proclaiming the truth. Just like it was in the first century, the disciples would go to the synagogue to preach and teach. Problem is that they are becoming more and more hard of hearing. Love is diminishing. Its sad.

 

[Nathan]

The same as it was from the beginning. Obedience. Adam was a perfect man. Created perfect. Yet still needed to obey.

Gen 2:15-17 The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Gen 3:8-10 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" And he said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself." He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"

Even perfect Adam had commands given to him. But unlike him, we know for sure what sin does. Adam had never seen sin, nor known what it did. His sin, although was willful, was not presumptuous.

I want to make this clear. And its been my reason for even wanting to talk about this in depth. Commandments are for our good. Even perfect Adam had commandments. Jesus obeyed God's commandments. They are a 'sign' of the righteousness of Jesus Christ at work in our lives. They bear witness to the testimony we hold.

However, they can never purify us. I know that I already made that statement, but I thought I would share something to add to it.

Rev 12:10-11 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

This is how sin is overcome. This is the work of God in the life of the believer. Overcoming by Christ's shed blood and the testimony we hold in Christ. This all takes place inside the heart of the believer.

Now contrast it to the description of what the people were seen from the outside. The account in Rev 12 is a look at the inside of a believer, the account in Rev 14.

Rev 14:12-13 Here is the patience(steadfastness/consistency) of the saints: here they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

There is significant evidence to show that the outward life of the believer is going to dictate that which is taking place inside. Its the whole fruit model yet once again. But it just cannot be used as the method by which one uses for their testimony. Get that? There are some that will use it for their testimony. We see that in Matt 7. But here, it is precisely the outward working of the inside change.

This is why words hold so much meaning. The word of testimony is inside us, and just like James describes, faith is the outworking of what testimony we hold inside. Its just interesting to see how God used so many different words and how we sometimes just pass over them without giving them the proper consideration.

 

[Who Says]

Our Sabbath is Christ now, we do not have to wait for another time to be resting in Christ; For if Christ was not our Sabbath, we would be struggling and keeping all the laws in our own strength; and in doing so, we can say "I keep those laws" and be in danger of puffing ourselves up, instead of seeing that it is Christ doing the work inside of us; yet the 6 days of creation is a shadow, too, of the preparation of His Body, and I believe we are in the 7th day Sabbath and the Sons of God will be revealed soon.

I am not saying he is not our Sabbath now.

I am saying, Lets's see the entire picture.

Did Christ's ransom not credit to Abel?

Once it is in Christ it is as reality.

In fact, from the moment the Father purposed it (at the very moment he pronunced the death sentence on Adam and confined us all under sin,) it was certain.

 

[Nathan]

My wife called and she was scanning through the radio channels. She knows I am having this discussion and when she heard the word "law", she stopped to listen.

This is what the guy said; "We are not under the law. In fact, you should not try to keep the law. We are under love. Love flourishes where there is no law."

How twisted is that? Take a part of some passages, then add some others, so that the whole statement contains truth, but the way its put is completely false.

What got me the most is where he said, "Love flourishes where there is no law". So, there was no flourishing of love in the Garden? All through the OT there was no love of God for His people? When Jesus cried out over Jerusalem to gather her, He was not showing love? Jesus Himself did not flourish in the love of His Father?

Wow! Insanity!

 

[whitney]

My wife called and she was scanning through the radio channels. She knows I am having this discussion and when she heard the word "law", she stopped to listen.

This is what the guy said; "We are not under the law. In fact, you should not try to keep the law. We are under love. Love flourishes where there is no law."

How twisted is that? Take a part of some passages, then add some others, so that the whole statement contains truth, but the way its put is completely false.

What got me the most is where he said, "Love flourishes where there is no law". So, there was no flourishing of love in the Garden? All through the OT there was no love of God for His people? When Jesus cried out over Jerusalem to gather her, He was not showing love? Jesus Himself did not flourish in the love of His Father?

Wow! Insanity!

Ummm.....Nathan, what the guy said on the radio is actually the Truth.
We are not under law, we should not try to keep the law, the law does not give us love, Christ does and He is our Law now. Love is freedom, the law is being under a bondage of a set of rules. The law is in our hearts, we are no long in the letter of the law, yet in the Spirit of Truth.

Blessings.

 

[Nathan]

Ummm.....Nathan, what the guy said on the radio is actually the Truth.
We are not under law, we should not try to keep the law, the law does not give us love, Christ does and He is our Law now. Love is freedom, the law is being under a bondage of a set of rules. The law is in our hearts, we are no long in the letter of the law, yet in the Spirit of Truth.

Blessings.

Correct, we are not "under" the law. Correct, we should not try to "keep" the law. Correct, there is freedom in Christ. False, Christ was not under bondage. Correct, the law is in our hearts. Correct, we are in the Spirit, IF indeed the Spirit of God lives in us.

You do not address the "love flourishes" questions posed. Was there no love in the Garden? Was there no love in the OT? Was there no love between Christ and His Father? We see, and will not deny that there were laws here. In fact, we are still yet under laws ourself. Do we think that Jesus was not serious when He said what He did in the teachings He gave starting in Matthew 5? Laws are all around us. This guy was trying to prove a point but using his own strength to do it. That is sin, not love.

 

[whitney]

Correct, we are not "under" the law. Correct, we should not try to "keep" the law. Correct, there is freedom in Christ. False, Christ was not under bondage. Correct, the law is in our hearts. Correct, we are in the Spirit, IF indeed the Spirit of God lives in us.

You do not address the "love flourishes" questions posed. Was there no love in the Garden? Was there no love in the OT? Was there no love between Christ and His Father? We see, and will not deny that there were laws here. In fact, we are still yet under laws ourself. Do we think that Jesus was not serious when He said what He did in the teachings He gave starting in Matthew 5? Laws are all around us. This guy was trying to prove a point but using his own strength to do it. That is sin, not love.

Of course there was love in the OT.
There was a reason the 10 commandments and all of the other laws given to the Israelites, emphasis, given to THE ISRAELITES, not to us. God chose them out of all the peoples on the earth to teach them His Ways and through the laws, they found out what sin was.
I love you brother Nathan, but I am going to bow out of this discussion, this is a 22 page Bible study and it still continues to be, what I see as a stumbling block for you, and I say this in love for you, and the only way for you to discover this truth is through a revelation from God. No arguing, debating or presentation of scripture is going to change something that you are afraid of letting go.
May God bless you.
Whitney

 

[Jake]

Of course there was love in the OT.
There was a reason the 10 commandments and all of the other laws given to the Israelites, emphasis, given to THE ISRAELITES, not to us. God chose them out of all the peoples on the earth to teach them His Ways and through the laws, they found out what sin was.
I love you brother Nathan, but I am going to bow out of this discussion, this is a 22 page Bible study and it still continues to be, what I see as a stumbling block for you, and I say this in love for you, and the only way for you to discover this truth is through a revelation from God. No arguing, debating or presentation of scripture is going to change something that you are afraid of letting go.
May God bless you.
Whitney

I ditto this, this post convicted me, someone not too long ago was trying to get me to see this (no amount of debating will get anyone to see anything)but, at the time, it didn't sink in, but God has brought it back around so the light is going on for me, and now can see what that person was trying to say. I will step out, too and not disrupt the thread anymore.
Peace brother.

Carry on in peace, i am sorry to have messed up the flow of this thread.

 

[Nathan]

Yea. I figured this would happen. I wondered how long it would take. We all profess love, but when someone needs it we back away. I hoped, after the initial bout, that this would be good. There is so much truth to be had in God's Word about this that it would take 22 more pages just to broach the subject.

Thanks guys. To say it does not hurt would be a lie. I get it all the time at the church I have gone too. Maybe I grow calluses?

I mean this in no disrespect, but what you two are declaring is not love.

I think that what we have done in this day and age is whittled ourselves down to the point where 'love is blind'. We only love what we can see.

We even think that love is whatever we want it to be. "If it feels right, it must be love". And so automatically, "If it feels wrong, it must not be love". But yet, even in the very words we declare freedom in, we have a written documentation of what true love is.

1Cr 13:4-7 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Please, if I "preach" that we are under the law, then I have not been perfected by love, Right?

1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.

So please tell me where love is not the motivating and overriding factor of my posts. Or does 1Corinthians not give us the full measure of what love looks like? Where have I failed to love? Where has loved failed to come out of me?

Mankind already knew what sin was. It did not have to be shown them. God gave His commands out of love. The OT is filled with this. But yet people still want to take passages and make a whole doctrine out of it. In fact, God commanded Israel to treat the stranger that was in them as one of them.

Deu 7:7-12 It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the LORD set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but it is because the LORD loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant(notice the singular use of the word) and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations(how many generations has there been since then?), and repays to their face those who hate him, by destroying them. He will not be slack with one who hates him. He will repay him to his face. You shall therefore be careful to do the commandment and the statutes and the rules that I command you today. "And because you listen to these rules and keep and do them, the LORD your God will keep with you the covenant and the steadfast love that he swore to your fathers.

Do you love or hate God's commands? That should be the ultimate question anyone should ask themselves.

The covenant He was keeping was NOT with the children of "Israel". He in turn made a covenant with them in addition to the one He made with Abraham. But the covenant He made with Abraham was fulfilled and made "new" in Christ.

The laws of God have always been, and will always be, the testimony that points to Christ. Yet in this wicked and evil generation there is no surprise that we have yet once again, just as the Israelites did, drift from a covering of love to a state of lawlessness. It was prophesied to happen. It shall bring to completion the plan of God for humankind.

I have to believe that if God declared a 1000 generations, then He knew what He was saying. I do not make Him out to ever have been sarcastic. A 1000 generations does not even begin to come close to how many generations have been since this time, and for that matter, since Adam.

Take 6000 years. Take a generational minimum of 10 years old. Thats being very generous too. Most generations are 20-25. But I suppose that there could be younger generations. That is only 600 generations since Adam. Can we not read? Matthew chapter 1 states EXACTLY how many generations have been since Abraham to Christ. 42.

God was declaring something when He declares a thousand generations.

Now. We know that righteousness NEVER came through the law. Not even when it was GIVEN. But over the years they came to the point where they thought they could. There was a remnant of course. Those who feared God and loved His commands. Who found that they were there for their good, not harm. If the removal of the law was of such importance as what we have tried to make it out to be, why does Jesus not state so? Where do you find Jesus saying that the law is not good, or that it is no more? You wont. Never. But yet we declare it as one of the "pillars" upon which we stand in faith.

Righteousness cannot come from the law. Period. But that does not mean that the law is not Righteous! How can we love God and 'look down on' His Righteous words??? We cannot. But yet we try and try. God please help us!

 

[Jake]

Nathan, I have learned in my life, which is unfortunate, because I don't think it's supposed to be this way. I don't think it's supposed to be this rogue, alone situation, but it is for me right now. that it really is between an individual and God and no one else, I do not have anyone in my direct life who sees what I see and it sucks. So, the conclusion is, it IS only between you and God sometimes.

In no way have I felt any thing other than brotherly love from you, I am not even sure I understand your point. Where we step out when all YOU need is love? I don't get it. It seems what you "need" is from us to see it your way, and your way is in error.

I am stepping out because I think it's pointless to continue this disagreement for any longer. You have said your piece, I have said mine, what more is there to discuss?

I see an entire picture in my head of the Word of God, it's like a puzzle being put together for me and it's awesome, it's like these pieces, coming together to make this picture and the more revelation God gives me, the more other things become clearer.

So for me to dwell on this one point of the 10 commandments when I know what I know, and there is no one receiving what I am saying, then it really truly is pointless to continue. A person can write all they want, like I have been doing, but if there is no receiver, then I am writing it to no one. Do you see what I mean? Why keep writing when no one is receiving it?

I'm sure we'll meet again on some other issue soon.

peace.

 

[Eventide]

These discussions can often get heated and it's because one of the essential elements of love is...

Are you ready for this......................................

H A T E ...

It seems like the opposite of love at first glance although it's really not.. HATE is essential to LOVE.. because when we love the TRUTH (and that's Christ), then we should (and often do) hate every false way.. and that doesn't mean that we're right, it simply shows how passionate love can be when the thngs (or person) we hold dear are questioned by others..

I'll never forget listening to a guy preach about love and how he mentioned that the opposite of love is not hate, but rather indifference.. when people could care less..

.02

 

[Elijah674]

These discussions can often get heated and it's because one of the essential elements of love is...

Are you ready for this......................................

H A T E ...

It seems like the opposite of love at first glance although it's really not.. HATE is essential to LOVE.. because when we love the TRUTH (and that's Christ), then we should (and often do) hate every false way.. and that doesn't mean that we're right, it simply shows how passionate love can be when the thngs (or person) we hold dear are questioned by others..

I'll never forget listening to a guy preach about love and how he mentioned that the opposite of love is not hate, but rather indifference.. when people could care less..

.02

HATE?? Naw, 'i' do not agree with [this post], 'i' SPIRITUALLY LOVE the guy that I do not know even! but hate the message? well, kind of dislike it! We hate the 'sin' but love the sinner. And yes there is a Godly hatred, but no human can read anothers mind for what he does or where he is at in maturity!

But you are right that there is a Godly hatred of sin! And who that Loves God & loves Their creation would not LOVINGLY WARN the lost one? It is when the two (sin & sinner) pass the boundaries of probation that both are hated as a oneness with NO MORE HOPE, and that, God will even do what He call 'His Strange act'!

And we are not given that personal mind reading ability! Yet, WE ARE TO UNDERSTAND THAT ANY FOLD of Rev. 17:1-5's teachings are already Judged such! (just not the individual 'final' Judgement is not for us to know)

 

[Elijah674]

Ummm.....Nathan, what the guy said on the radio is actually the Truth.
We are not under law, we should not try to keep the law, the law does not give us love, Christ does and He is our Law now. Love is freedom, the law is being under a bondage of a set of rules. The law is in our hearts, we are no long in the letter of the law, yet in the Spirit of Truth.

Blessings.

Hi, you'ins! Think this above [post] out?? We have a Hight Priest in Jesus, right?? (I do anyhow) OK: Rom. 8:1 finds us JUSTIFIED WITH NO COMDEMNATION. Agreed?? So Christ is NO longer needed, huh? No, for we find verse 14 following the NO CONDEMNATION verse with.. these ones being LED! See Hosea 4:6 or Dan. 12:4, + Rev. 3:16 & Rev. 2:5 WHOLE FOLD!! (if they will be or can continue on to be) Yet, when we balk, (((SIN))) we are right back CONDEMNED OF THE LAW OF GOD. 1 John 3:4 And that is the Eternal Gospel from Gen. through the near End of Rev!

 

[Nathan]

Nathan, I have learned in my life, which is unfortunate, because I don't think it's supposed to be this way. I don't think it's supposed to be this rogue, alone situation, but it is for me right now. that it really is between an individual and God and no one else, I do not have anyone in my direct life who sees what I see and it sucks. So, the conclusion is, it IS only between you and God sometimes.

In no way have I felt any thing other than brotherly love from you, I am not even sure I understand your point. Where we step out when all YOU need is love? I don't get it. It seems what you "need" is from us to see it your way, and your way is in error.

I am stepping out because I think it's pointless to continue this disagreement for any longer. You have said your piece, I have said mine, what more is there to discuss?

I see an entire picture in my head of the Word of God, it's like a puzzle being put together for me and it's awesome, it's like these pieces, coming together to make this picture and the more revelation God gives me, the more other things become clearer.

So for me to dwell on this one point of the 10 commandments when I know what I know, and there is no one receiving what I am saying, then it really truly is pointless to continue. A person can write all they want, like I have been doing, but if there is no receiver, then I am writing it to no one. Do you see what I mean? Why keep writing when no one is receiving it?

I'm sure we'll meet again on some other issue soon.

peace.

I have been in the same spot you speak of for almost twice as many years as you. I am 32 and to this date I have had less true friends than you can count on one hand. I have been alone all my life. Thank God He gave me my wife. If it were not for her, her love for me, who knows.

Stepping out of discussion because you do not see a need for it, when the other person obviously does, is not love. I am sorry. Now I know that you did not direct it at me, but the other person involved stated that I was "stumbling'.

When we see error, do we walk away? Does love not reach out? Especially if they are considered a 'brother'? Now, personally, I am not offended by it. I know where I stand in Christ. But, if someone see's where I am stumbling, and can point it out without it being taken out of context, then by all means I am willing to listen.

There is a lot more to discuss. Like I said. We have only broached the subject. Discussion is for the sake of edification. Debate is for the sake of pride. I want discussion not debate. Its not about who is right or wrong, its about getting down to the rock solid truth.

We are not dwelling on the one command. I have stated before, and as the OP stated, this is about all of them. Yes, we got into discussion about the one for a bit. Its going to happen. Especial since it is the only one out of the 10 that trips people up.

The Bible is like a giant puzzle. But we have the picture right in front of us. We even have a diagram that shows us which piece goes where. If someone is not 'receiving' what piece we are giving, then we simply put it there ourselves. Picking up our 'marbles' and going home because no one seems to be "winning" are things that the natural man does. However, when the discussion turns to debate, and when it is our own opinions and not Scripture speaking, then it is time to go.

I will always be willing to give a reason for the hope in me. Is everyone else? I do not say that anyone HAS to discuss this with me. I truthfully hold no ill feelings for you Rockie. I just wanted to show you that it is not love that is the motivating reason your backing out, its because you think its pointless. Love does not insist on its own way, and its patient.

Just know that I understand where you are in life. Please trust me when I say that. I have felt that way for 32 years now, even when I did have those few friends. Its just the way God made us. I enjoy discussing these things, it helps me stay sharp.

Pro 27:17 Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another.

Sparks always fly when you put iron and iron together, but you can tell its a good thing when they both come out sharper than when they started. Thats been half my relationship with Elijah.;)

 

[Theofilus]

the law does not give us love

The law does not "give us" love, but it shows us how to love. Left to interpret things on their own, people will justify pretty much everything by calling it love. Homosexuality, adultery and fornication are all justified because of "love". I remember a cult back in the 70's called the Children of God. They used sex to show people God's love. They called their young women "happy hookers for Jesus" and "God's prostitutes". People even justify murder by calling it love. Mothers have murdered their children (both born and unborn) because of their love for them. Cult members have killed their children out of love.

The law defines what true love really is. If you do away with the law, you do away with love.

 

[Eventide]

HATE?? Naw, 'i' do not agree with [this post], 'i' SPIRITUALLY LOVE the guy that I do not know even! but hate the message? well, kind of dislike it! We hate the 'sin' but love the sinner. And yes there is a Godly hatred, but no human can read anothers mind for what he does or where he is at in maturity!

But you are right that there is a Godly hatred of sin! And who that Loves God & loves Their creation would not LOVINGLY WARN the lost one? It is when the two (sin & sinner) pass the boundaries of probation that both are hated as a oneness with NO MORE HOPE, and that, God will even do what He call 'His Strange act'!

And we are not given that personal mind reading ability! Yet, WE ARE TO UNDERSTAND THAT ANY FOLD of Rev. 17:1-5's teachings are already Judged such! (just not the individual 'final' Judgement is not for us to know)

I wasn't talking about hating people, but rather every false way... like this from Psalm 119..

Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.