Bible Study The Law of God - The Law of Moses - The Law

[Who Says]

But we must also not neglect the very next chapter. Love above all, obedience working through faith and NOT self willpower. It's a witness of two. There cannot be one without the other and it be truth.

We won't if we love God.

We love God because he loved us first.

He enabled us to love by providing grace to us so we have a chance to learn his love.

 

[Nathan]

Exactly.

But also good reason to make sure we are keeping ourselves in God's love.

Jude 1:21 "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."

Right, but again in context, earnestly contending for the faith. The whole faith. God loves us, our home is not this earth, Christ died for our sins, He was raised for our justification, we are new creations, we are not slaves of sin to obey it but slaves of God to obey Him.

Above this all, everything must be done in Godly love.

 

[Nathan]

Amen !!! You nailed it !!!

I hope you don't mind my quoting you there. That is beautifully expressed and will benefit many to hear.

Their not my words. Just a summation of the truth in Christ as expressed on the Bible. I just have spent a lot of time 'boiling' it down.;)

 

[Nathan]

We won't if we love God.

We love God because he loved us first.

He enabled us to love by providing grace to us so we have a chance to learn his love.

I perceive your a man like I. I have just spent the last bit 'chatting' with a fellow at the church I go to. It was about witnessing. He claims that I am mincing words. I say that words are dire to accurate communication. He says we should "go". I say we should "live". He says it's a "privilege". I say its my "life".

We never came to an agreement on it. Needless to say. Yes, it all began with love. Lol, but we would have never known that love without the law. Paul said it best;

7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."
8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead.
9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.

He goes on beyond this, but you know the rest.

 

[Who Says]

I must break for a while to get a few things done.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the experience today.

:waving Hey, he looks just like me, too !!!

 

[Who Says]

I perceive your a man like I. I have just spent the last bit 'chatting' with a fellow at the church I go to. It was about witnessing. He claims that I am mincing words. I say that words are dire to accurate communication. He says we should "go". I say we should "live". He says it's a "privilege". I say its my "life".

We never came to an agreement on it. Needless to say. Yes, it all began with love. Lol, but we would have never known that love without the law. Paul said it best;

7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."
8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead.
9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.

He goes on beyond this, but you know the rest.

Very true.

Later !!!

 

[Jake]

I have observed that many of the churches end up practicing their faith in the same or similar way that those under that Old Law kept that Old Law by its letter.

They end up rebuilding a sort of version of that Old Law to the setting in the background the lessons of God's love.

Their people preach what they learn in a way that seems quite harsh and critical turning many away from not just them but from belief that there is anything at all to be offered through Christianity.

That is the way the soil developed from which grows the man of sin son of perdition who is shown setting himself up among God's people. God's people, the church is the temple wherein God dwells if it like Christ's body keeps itself holy that God's spirit may take up dwelling in it.

This is why Paul gave the counsel here:

1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 ¶Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 ¶I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

When he said to this next thing he meant protecting God's spirit in the congregation dwelling among them: 1 Corinthians 5:5 "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

Get that flesh out of Christ's body!!! Keep the body holy that you do not lose God's spirit in it due to unholiness.

This casting out of such a man is what the stoning under the Old Law pictured. Clearing those who resist God's holiness away from us. that is also referred to as purging the body. Of course purging also means helping all of us clear out our flesh from that body. Christ's body cannot be our flesh, it must be his.

And that is where this comes in: Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

I would need to talk about the use of plural pronouns there in the Greek to show that it is the body of christ meant when it says "you". You can read in the preface of a JKV about plural and singular pronouns. The NKJV lost that excellent feature which was a part of the KJV.

But that quickening of our mortal bodies refers to how God's spirit enlivens us with power over our old rebelloius flesh so that it does not interfere in the body of Christ and cause unholiness to that body.

I wasn't sure if I should comment or not as I didn't want to mess up the flow here, but what you have said Who Says is so true. We can not get where we are going through the law, being in the Spirit will get us there though and not staying in the letter of the law.
So Amen to what you have written.

 

[Jake]

Revelation 12:1 ¶And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This woman is the heavenly Jerusalem - God's main heavenly kingdom.

The child she is travailing to give birth to is also a kingdom. It is the extension of God's heavenly kingdom that will take over the rule of this earth called "the New Jerusalem".

That is why it is like a stone cut out of God's main mountain or kingdom: Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

The floor is open for comments.

You invited, so I will comment, again I hope this is ok because there is a flow here and I don't want to disrupt it, but if I may add just a few things to support what you have written above.

I believe this verse in John is also explaining the birthing of the Kingdom coming to rule, which is His Body:

Joh 16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but when she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for the joy that a man is born into the world.
Joh 16:22 And ye therefore now have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no one taketh away from you.

This has been an ongoing process through time, and has to do with His Body here on earth, this could not happen under the old covenant or the old law, it can only happen in the new, because of His Spirit that we have now. As He grows in us, our sin is dead and we have been conforming into His image. It has been going on.

Jesus is the seed (the Word) that was planted in us, through hearing, receiving, accepting and through faith and obedience. As we mature in our walk, that seed grows, this can not happen by being under law, this is completely spiritual, it is His Spirit living in us renewing our minds. We are dead to sin, the law can not make sin dead, only the death/resurrection of Christ can do this and Christ living in us.

"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" (John 1:29).

Rom 6:11 Even so reckon ye also yourselves to be dead unto sin, but alive unto God in Christ Jesus.

We do not have to sin, we are dead to sin. Now that we are His Body, we are to (and please do not ask me if I do not sin HA, I'm 17, what do you think? ): However, as we mature, our sin becomes less and less.


1Jn 2:6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.

As all this goes on, we get to this point:

2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.

Now I really hope I haven't confused anyone. HA!
peace -
Jake

 

[Who Says]

You invited, so I will comment, again I hope this is ok because there is a flow here and I don't want to disrupt it, but if I may add just a few things to support what you have written above.

I believe this verse in John is also explaining the birthing of the Kingdom coming to rule, which is His Body:

Joh 16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but when she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for the joy that a man is born into the world.
Joh 16:22 And ye therefore now have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no one taketh away from you.

This has been an ongoing process through time, and has to do with His Body here on earth, this could not happen under the old covenant or the old law, it can only happen in the new, because of His Spirit that we have now. As He grows in us, our sin is dead and we have been conforming into His image. It has been going on.

Jesus is the seed (the Word) that was planted in us, through hearing, receiving, accepting and through faith and obedience. As we mature in our walk, that seed grows, this can not happen by being under law, this is completely spiritual, it is His Spirit living in us renewing our minds. We are dead to sin, the law can not make sin dead, only the death/resurrection of Christ can do this and Christ living in us.

"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" (John 1:29).

Rom 6:11 Even so reckon ye also yourselves to be dead unto sin, but alive unto God in Christ Jesus.

We do not have to sin, we are dead to sin. Now that we are His Body, we are to (and please do not ask me if I do not sin HA, I'm 17, what do you think? ): However, as we mature, our sin becomes less and less.


1Jn 2:6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.

As all this goes on, we get to this point:

2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.

Now I really hope I haven't confused anyone. HA!
peace -
Jake

I agree, Rockie.

I think you expressed the heart of the matter very clear.

It takes letting go of all fear and putting our complete trust in God knowing that if we love him fervently with our heart he will not let us fail.

I think sometimes people just have difficulty fully believing that. They are used to depending on themselves for the most part and have difficulty removing that tendency from out of their relationship with God. Therefore they use his commandments much in the same way as those striving under the letter of that Old Law. It makes no sense to them that it can be done any other way. All they really know is the way of the imperfect flesh.

I really like the way Nathan stated it in his post #293

He said: "We can never, should never, and will never be; justified, glorified, sanctified, righteuosified(I made that word up), purified, or any other 'ifieds' by the flesh or the law.

The law is only there to point us to Christ. For us who believe, it's to point us back when we have started to stray. For those who have never believed, it is to point out their need for a savior.

But the fact is that until heaven and earth remain, this heaven and earth remains, the law will never be changed or abolished. It will do the work it was meant to do till He returns.

Praise God He has given us His Spirit and called us to a eternal inheritance with the saints before us."

James 2:8 "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors."

So there at James 2:9 we see that for us to sin is to basicly enliven that Old Law again against us.

It is always good to hear from you Rockie. You are very in depth for your age and that is so very refreshing to see in a young man.

The point you make about John 16:21-22 is insightful. It is truly a glory to God that you are able to think that deeply into spiritual things.

 

[Jake]

Another thought, which goes along with what Nathan has said in that post you reposted, sometimes people who do hold onto the old law, along with the Sabbath, can be like the Pharisees, puffed up and proud, that they do this and that, and accusing others of not being as righteous as themselves (and I am NOT saying Nathan does this, I do not believe he does at all).

Galatians 2:16 - "Yet we know that a person is justified not by the works of the law but through faith in/of Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we might be justified by faith in/of Christ, and not by doing the works of the law, because no one will be justified by the works of the law."

Romans 3:28 - "For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the law."

Yet faith w/out works is dead:
James 2:24, 26 - "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone... For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead

So could we say our primary work is to believe.
Galatians 3:6-9 - "Just as Abraham 'believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,'

Like you have said, belief in God means we completely rely on Him for everything. We are what we think we are, we are saints, not sinners, we are spiritual, not fleshy.

Proverbs 23: 7 For as he thinketh within himself, so is he

 

[Who Says]

Another thought, which goes along with what Nathan has said in that post you reposted, sometimes people who do hold onto the old law, along with the Sabbath, can be like the Pharisees, puffed up and proud, that they do this and that, and accusing others of not being as righteous as themselves (and I am NOT saying Nathan does this, I do not believe he does at all).

Galatians 2:16 - "Yet we know that a person is justified not by the works of the law but through faith in/of Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we might be justified by faith in/of Christ, and not by doing the works of the law, because no one will be justified by the works of the law."

Romans 3:28 - "For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the law."

Yet faith w/out works is dead:
James 2:24, 26 - "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone... For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead

So could we say our primary work is to believe.
Galatians 3:6-9 - "Just as Abraham 'believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,'

Like you have said, belief in God means we completely rely on Him for everything. We are what we think we are, we are saints, not sinners, we are spiritual, not fleshy.

Proverbs 23: 7 For as he thinketh within himself, so is he

Yes, well it comes a bit slow for most of us to gather our knowledge and even slower our understanding of it. In the beginning we have trouble staying consistently linked to be able and hear the spirit. We fall away in spells due to our pride yet being alive to cause us to become too elated with each little piece that we learn from the spirit. We have to become aware of that and work on the problem.

Let me try to state as plainly as I can those 6 days and the 7th they stumble over. and how they stumble concerning the ten commandments.

I have said that the ten are basically and epitomizing of God's Eternal Righteous standards. That is not the same as saying that they have not changed as they were written to the Israelites. They are a part of this: Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

This changing of the Law is all the Law that instead of being set aside is being fulfilled in a spiritual way yet in the body of Christ as in Christ. Romans 8:4 'That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Even those ten are fulfilled in Christ.

The six days of work written in the stone tablets of the ten commandments was a comparison to the 6 days it took God to prepare man's home for man to be placed to rest in.

The 7th day Sabbath compared to the 7th day in which God placed man to his new home and so rested man in it as he rested.

The change of the six days as they are fulfilled in Christ is the six days now are the time it takes us to prepare our rest in Christ as God recreates or regenerates us. This is our period cooperating with the bath in the water of the word and all of our cleansing so that we become holy.

Now. you know Christ's true body is truly and actually holy, right?

We are not actually resting in Sabbath in Christ until we have reached that same true state of holiness. We first have to, "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me" and after doing that work in him "for I am meek and lowly in heart and [then] ye shall find rest unto your souls." (Matthew 11:29)

But we are confident in Christ to the good conscience that gets us there like the ark Noah built transporting us over this sea at Isaiah 57:20 and getting us to our new home and place of rest.

We are actually right now working our six days in Christ until we get to that 7th in Christ. These six days our unclean flesh is in Christ being cleaned (Christ being like Noah's Ark as 1 Peter 3 tells us) are why we saw Noah taking unclean animals into that Ark after he built it.

I have said a number of times that Peter showed us in Acts chapters 10 and 11 that those unclean animals were only pictorial of our not eating of the flesh of unclean men as we are to eat of Christ's clean flesh, not spiritually fornicating (like two becoming one) with unclean men but becoming one with Christ.

I am sorry for my clumsy way of presenting this but it has worked that as the spirit moves me to speak it I say it a bit better the next time around as I understand it better.

Often as I type it I have no idea what I will type because the spirit does not tell me but as I type. then after that having typed it once the next time I type it I understand it better.

The spirit brings this to me a little at a time. Yesterday it gave me a little but I had no idea how it would give me more today that furthers the picture.

In others words, the knowledge you see me with today I had yesterday only in broken and unconnected bits. So the understanding you see me type today I did not have yesterday to be able to type yesterday. Does that make any sense? It is the spirit connecting things as it recalls to my mind those pieces I took in through the bulk of my pondering in the scriptures.

I have to pause for now so I can let what I was just taught sink in.

 

[Who Says]

Rockie,

I do not want those who say they are resting in Sabbath in Christ to feel I am disputing them either.

We are by faith doing so because the end goal is our hope that is so real it is as though it already is. Faith is our rudder and hope is our anchor that holds us from drifting off course when the wicked air of this world blows hard upon us.

If that hope is not that real to us it could not anchor us. We would be prone to doubt.

PS/ Realizing that just be sure also to rejoice in these 6 days of regeneration as we become that completed new creature in Christ while at the same time keeping that hope as real as if already realized..

Wow. I guess we could correctly say we fulfill the six days of work in Christ through our faith working in love and the Sabbath even now by the hope that comes through that faith.

 

[Nathan]

Yes, well it comes a bit slow for most of us to gather our knowledge and even slower our understanding of it. In the beginning we have trouble staying consistently linked to be able and hear the spirit. We fall away in spells due to are pride yet being alive to cause us to become too elated with each little piece that we learn from the spirit. We have to become aware of that and work on the problem.

Let me try to state as plainly as I can those 6 days and the 7th they stumble over. and how they stumble concerning the ten commandments.

I have said that the ten are basically and epitomizing of God's Eternal Righteous standards. That is not the same as saying that they have not changed as they were written to the Israelites. They are a part of this: Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

This changing of the Law is all the Law that instead of being set aside is being fulfilled in a spiritual way yet in the body of Christ as in Christ. Romans 8:4 'That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Even those ten are fulfilled in Christ.

The six days of work written in the stone tablets of the ten commandments was a comparison to the 6 days it took God to prepare man's home for man to be placed to rest in.

The 7th day Sabbath compared to the 7th day in which God placed man to his new home and so rested man in it as he rested.

The change of the six days as they are fulfilled in Christ is the six days now are the time it takes us to prepare our rest in Christ as God recreates or regenerates us. This is our period cooperating with the bath in the water of the word and all of our cleansing so that we become holy.

Now. you know Christ's true body is truly and actually holy, right?

We are not actually resting in Sabbath in Christ until we have reached that same true state of holiness. We first have to, "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me" and after doing that work in him "for I am meek and lowly in heart and [then] ye shall find rest unto your souls." (Matthew 11:29)

But we are confident in Christ to the good conscience that gets us there like the ark Noah built transporting us over this sea at Isaiah 57:20 and getting us to our new home and place of rest.

We are actually right now working our six days in Christ until we get to that 7th in Christ. These six days our unclean flesh is in Christ being cleaned (Christ being like Noah's Ark as 1 Peter 3 tells us) are why we saw Noah taking unclean animals into that Ark after he built it.

I have said a number of times that Peter showed us in Acts chapters 10 and 11 that those unclean animals were only pictorial of our not eating of the flesh of unclean men as we are to eat of Christ's clean flesh, not spiritually fornicating with (like two becoming one) unclean men but becoming one with Christ.

I am sorry for my clumsy way of presenting this but it has worked that as the spirit moves me to speak it I say it a bit better the next time around as I understand it better.

Often as I type it I have no idea what I will type because the spirit does not tell me but as I type. then after that having typed it once the next time I type it I understand it better.

The spirit brings this to me a little at a time. Yesterday it gave me a little but I had no idea how it would give me more today that furthers the picture.

In others words, the knowledge you see me with today I had yesterday only in broken and unconnected bits. So the understanding you see me type today I did not have yesterday to be able to type yesterday. Does that make any sense? It is the spirit connecting things as it recalls to my mind those pieces I took in through the bulk of my pondering in the scriptures.

I have to pause for now so I can let what I was just taught sink in.

Beautifully put! This is how I have come to 'put the pieces together' also. Its interesting to hear your thoughts about how you write and then pause to let it sink in. Sometimes I will write, whether it be on here or a letter to people I know, and then I will go back and read and read it again. Amazed, not at myself, but at what the Spirit is speaking through me. Is that pride? No! Its quite a humbling experience, which it sounds like you are well aware of.

This is how I see the Sabbath. It really is. Ok, so is it 'double talk' to say that I then keep it just like I would not physically bow down to an idol or anything else we do in the flesh? Is it 'double talk' to say that I keep it physically and spiritually? Some just might think so. But here is the deal. We are still in that sixth day. And, we are still in our fleshly bodies. You may think I am crazy, and I just may border on it sometimes, but I think the Sabbath needs to be stressed now in a greater degree than it has in the past.

This does not come loosely off my mind. It comes from my heart, and with all truth that is in me, it came before I ever believed the way I do now about the Sabbath. Its a long story of how God brought me here, but I will describe it sometime so as to share. Regardless, because we have not entered into that 7th day we are still looking forward to it in our flesh. We have entered it by faith. See the difference?

Ask the random church goer what the Sabbath means to them. They will most likely either say its a day of rest, its the seventh day of the week, its Sunday(?), its a day of worship, its for the Jews, its for the seventh day adventists.

On occasion you will find the random person who will state its rest in Christ. While most of these are true, with the exception of one serious error, we still miss the point. It was to point to Christ, yes, but it was also to point to the time when Christ will come, in the flesh, just like they saw Him go up. And that time has not come yet! So, what you find is most people living by faith, and looking toward the Sabbath spiritually in Christ, but slowly and surely this lack of keeping it in the forefront of our heads, between our eyes, we have grown back into the 'slumber' of not living as sojourners anymore, but rather as citizens of this land...with the "hope" of another. And a weak hope that is, not a true one.

2Pe 2:1-2 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed.

This whole chapter deals with these "false" teachers. And the thing to notice about them is that they come up from among the people. But wait, what is their 'teaching'? Its sensuality, fleshiness. It is those things contrary to God's ten commandments. They do indeed promise 'freedom', but are slaves of corruption. Then Peter states why he wrote both letters to these guys, following the description of these false teachers.

2Pe 3:1-6 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.

They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation." For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.

They let sin creep back into their life. Like a dog returns to its vomit, and a pig to the mud, so too these let the flesh gain control of their heart. We, beloved, can keep this from happening to us! Keeping ourselves in the love of Christ and God, knowing that the Sabbath is our eternal rest for there is not another day after the Sabbath. And while we sojourn each week here on earth, we can be reminded of this eternal rest by remembering that seventh day of creation and keeping it holy. Its not legalism, its not Jewish, its worship.

 

[Nathan]

Its interesting, because we will spend so much of our 'efforts' directed at loving each other. While at the same time, the first and greatest commandment is to love God. Why do we think that we do not need to spend the same effort and time and strength obeying that commandment, as we do with the other, is beyond me. I guess it is because we have fell into complacency. We see God as loving us, therefore I must love Him, right?

I also find it interesting that we look at what we do on Sundays as worship. And Saturdays for that matter, for those who attend a church building then. We think that songs and such is worshiping. I sometimes wonder if we, if I, really understand what worship is.

But this I do know. God created everything. How powerful is that? To say let there be a chicken, an boom, a chicken appears. Come on. Thats amazing! And then to contemplate that He had an eternal plan for mankind since even before He spoke the world into motion. Wow! And here, after creation, He then last but not least, created a day for man. And God Himself blessed it and made it holy. Wow!

Now contemplate this. Mankind started off as self proclaimed sojourners. They lived in tents, not because of where they lived, but because they were looking toward that city made without hands. Now look at us today. Wow! Steel buildings, houses that will last way into the future. We have built an "indestructible" world around us. We see a flaw, we fix it. Buildings that reach the clouds, and sway in the breeze without falling. Its all really amazing from a human perspective. To think humans are capable of all of this. Wow! We have built dams on rivers that will make you feel like your an ant in a ant hill. Massive structures that harness the raw power of water and turn it into electricity. Wow!

Now contemplate this.

Act 2:44-47 And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Act 4:32-35 Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.

Think about this. There were twelve guys. They started out rather good I would say. Being one even as Jesus and the Father are one, just like Christ prayed. But something happened. Something happened and we see it in the letters that Paul wrote to believers who were being saved.

1Cr 1:10-13 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, "I follow Paul," or "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Cephas," or "I follow Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Then we see later on how Paul had to address sin that was creeping in. The disciples, if you will remember, took care of this sort of thing quite quickly. Ananias and Sapphira? Yea. Crazy huh.

What happened? Why were things not being reproduced? Why was Christ not growing inside of people? Corruption. Thats why. How do I know this? Well, its Christ's self proclaimed desire that we bear much fruit. Now contemplate this.

12 guys. Do some math with me. If each one, in their lifetime reached one and made a disciple of him, then that person did the same, what is the number that we should see today? Its too high to calculate. But lets look at it on a small scale. Lets say it took 3 years to disciple someone. So for 3 years you spent all your time and energy teaching this person about Christ. Thats not to say that you are not also doing other things, reaching other people, but this person is your focus of discipleship. Ok?

Now, 12 guys, 3 years later, what do we have? A measly 24 guys. But wait! 3 years later, 48 guys. Not much. 3 years later? 96. 3 years later? 192 3 years later? 384, then 768, then 1536, then 3072. And that is what you have after 25 years. If you were to keep that up for 100 years? Wow!

Now I am not sure if I missed a step, so you can figure it for yourself, but after 100 years, 12 guys, discipling 1 man every 3 years, and then those guys doing the same. 103,079,215,104 people. Huh? Thats more than the worlds population right? Yep. Something happened, its called corruption. We can speculate all we want. And no, while this model is interesting, this would never happen. You have some who would die before being able to disciple. There are tons of variables. But the point is that its been 2000 years since Christ came, and you are going to be pressed to find a significant number of believers compared to the worlds population.

Something is wrong. Bad wrong. And we are being blinded day by day. I think, as for myself, that each week to sit and contemplate back to the creation of the world and all that God has done, and especially what He is going to do, is just fine with me. Keeps me humble. Keeps me grateful. Keeps me longing to see Him coming in the clouds. The Sabbath is not about 'doing this, or not doing that'. Thats all man made religious tradition. For crying out loud, we have people teaching those things about Sunday! There are millions of 'church' goers who do not believe in doing anything but 'church' stuff on Sunday! Is it just me, or does this seem crazy?

 

[Jake]

Yes, well it comes a bit slow for most of us to gather our knowledge and even slower our understanding of it. In the beginning we have trouble staying consistently linked to be able and hear the spirit. We fall away in spells due to our pride yet being alive to cause us to become too elated with each little piece that we learn from the spirit. We have to become aware of that and work on the problem.

Let me try to state as plainly as I can those 6 days and the 7th they stumble over. and how they stumble concerning the ten commandments.

I have said that the ten are basically and epitomizing of God's Eternal Righteous standards. That is not the same as saying that they have not changed as they were written to the Israelites. They are a part of this: Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

This changing of the Law is all the Law that instead of being set aside is being fulfilled in a spiritual way yet in the body of Christ as in Christ. Romans 8:4 'That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Even those ten are fulfilled in Christ.

The six days of work written in the stone tablets of the ten commandments was a comparison to the 6 days it took God to prepare man's home for man to be placed to rest in.

The 7th day Sabbath compared to the 7th day in which God placed man to his new home and so rested man in it as he rested.

The change of the six days as they are fulfilled in Christ is the six days now are the time it takes us to prepare our rest in Christ as God recreates or regenerates us. This is our period cooperating with the bath in the water of the word and all of our cleansing so that we become holy.

Now. you know Christ's true body is truly and actually holy, right?

We are not actually resting in Sabbath in Christ until we have reached that same true state of holiness. We first have to, "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me" and after doing that work in him "for I am meek and lowly in heart and [then] ye shall find rest unto your souls." (Matthew 11:29)

But we are confident in Christ to the good conscience that gets us there like the ark Noah built transporting us over this sea at Isaiah 57:20 and getting us to our new home and place of rest.

We are actually right now working our six days in Christ until we get to that 7th in Christ. These six days our unclean flesh is in Christ being cleaned (Christ being like Noah's Ark as 1 Peter 3 tells us) are why we saw Noah taking unclean animals into that Ark after he built it.

I have said a number of times that Peter showed us in Acts chapters 10 and 11 that those unclean animals were only pictorial of our not eating of the flesh of unclean men as we are to eat of Christ's clean flesh, not spiritually fornicating (like two becoming one) with unclean men but becoming one with Christ.

I am sorry for my clumsy way of presenting this but it has worked that as the spirit moves me to speak it I say it a bit better the next time around as I understand it better.

Often as I type it I have no idea what I will type because the spirit does not tell me but as I type. then after that having typed it once the next time I type it I understand it better.

The spirit brings this to me a little at a time. Yesterday it gave me a little but I had no idea how it would give me more today that furthers the picture.

In others words, the knowledge you see me with today I had yesterday only in broken and unconnected bits. So the understanding you see me type today I did not have yesterday to be able to type yesterday. Does that make any sense? It is the spirit connecting things as it recalls to my mind those pieces I took in through the bulk of my pondering in the scriptures.

I have to pause for now so I can let what I was just taught sink in.

Our Sabbath is Christ now, we do not have to wait for another time to be resting in Christ; For if Christ was not our Sabbath, we would be struggling and keeping all the laws in our own strength; and in doing so, we can say "I keep those laws" and be in danger of puffing ourselves up, instead of seeing that it is Christ doing the work inside of us; yet the 6 days of creation is a shadow, too, of the preparation of His Body, and I believe we are in the 7th day Sabbath and the Sons of God will be revealed soon.

 

[Nathan]

Our Sabbath is Christ now, we do not have to wait for another time to be resting in Christ; For if Christ was not our Sabbath, we would be struggling and keeping all the laws in our own strength; and in doing so, we can say "I keep those laws" and be in danger of puffing ourselves up, instead of seeing that it is Christ doing the work inside of us; yet the 6 days of creation is a shadow, too, of the preparation of His Body, and I believe we are in the 7th day Sabbath and the Sons of God will be revealed soon.

We are not too the 7th day yet. We are still in the 6th. On the seventh day God rested from ALL His works. Not some. And we know God is still working among us today.

2Pe 3:7-13 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!

But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

God is still working among us. Drawing men unto repentance. He is not slow. Its happening all in its due time. We are waiting for that promise eternal rest of the appointed Sabbath day. We have not come to it yet. How do I know? Because this old sin filled world still exists, and He specifically said there would be a new heaven and a new earth.

However, through the Spirit, we enter that rest Spiritually. There is no law when we are in the Spirit. By faith, we enter that rest, yet our bodies and minds are still being renewed. Creation was a shadow, the substance is God's work in mankind, but it does not negate that it actually happened also. ;)

 

[Elijah674]

We are not too the 7th day yet. We are still in the 6th. On the seventh day God rested from ALL His works. Not some. And we know God is still working among us today.

2Pe 3:7-13 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!

But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

God is still working among us. Drawing men unto repentance. He is not slow. Its happening all in its due time. We are waiting for that promise eternal rest of the appointed Sabbath day. We have not come to it yet. How do I know? Because this old sin filled world still exists, and He specifically said there would be a new heaven and a new earth.

However, through the Spirit, we enter that rest Spiritually. There is no law when we are in the Spirit. By faith, we enter that rest, yet our bodies and minds are still being renewed. Creation was a shadow, the substance is God's work in mankind, but it does not negate that it actually happened also. ;)

OK: But how can these ones know that they are not the Matt. 7:22 ones with their CLAIM BEING JUST THE SAME?

 

[Jake]

We are not too the 7th day yet. We are still in the 6th. On the seventh day God rested from ALL His works. Not some. And we know God is still working among us today.

2Pe 3:7-13 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!

But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

God is still working among us. Drawing men unto repentance. He is not slow. Its happening all in its due time. We are waiting for that promise eternal rest of the appointed Sabbath day. We have not come to it yet. How do I know? Because this old sin filled world still exists, and He specifically said there would be a new heaven and a new earth.

However, through the Spirit, we enter that rest Spiritually. There is no law when we are in the Spirit. By faith, we enter that rest, yet our bodies and minds are still being renewed. Creation was a shadow, the substance is God's work in mankind, but it does not negate that it actually happened also. ;)

I believe we are in the morning of the Sabbath, and there is this long list of reasons why (from Daniel to the one day is 1,000 years, etc.) I believe this HA and it is a bit off OT anyway yet the Great Tribulation is almost here and the Sons of God will be revealed soon.
But yes, people are still be drawn into the fold, the gospel of the Kingdom will continue being preached and it will be like no other time that has ever been or ever will be!
peace -

 

[Nathan]

The whole idea behind the 7th day Sabbath was to keep men focused on God. There is nothing wrong with that, there is nothing 'sinful' about that. Its a show of our love for Him.

We have grown away from that. Need proof? We do not even do as Christ said in Matthew chapter 6. We take that as a "do this if you want" approach. Do we really not think about to much what we will wear, eat, and sleep? Sure we do. Look at the news reports sometime. A house burns down and what do you see? People crying and weeping over the lost things inside their house.

We have grown closer and closer to this world, while distancing ourself from our true home. We have made a "separation". Look at church buildings today. Wow! The very buildings that we supposedly worship a God who is going to destroy the earth. Hmm....something sounds odd. The "church" today is richer than it ever has been in centuries past. Rich, filthy stinking rich. Its not just a coincidence, and its not just the culture. The "church" is very wealthy. If you look at the amount of money that flows through it, and is put into it, its amazing.

Statistics; This is for the SBC ALONE! "As of Feb. 28, Cooperative Program gifts received by the Executive Committee totaled $82,893,069.47, or $1,003,117.86 behind the $83,896,187.33 received at the end of February 2010."

Thats in a single year. One year. One denomination. One section of the denomination.

This should strike some bells...

Rev 3:14-22 "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: 'The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.

"'I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.

I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.

Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"

Jesus is speaking to a church who thinks they have it down pat. But their is no 'righteousness' among them. They are naked. There is no wisdom or understanding among them. They are blind. There is no purity of heart among them. They are poor.

Yet in all these things, they consider themselves quite the opposite. Why? Because they are looking at their fleshly desires and attributing them to 'blessings' from God. Pitiful.

If we really believe that we are in the last days, then we would really believe that this church period speaks of us. And if we really believe that, then we would consider the words of our Master. We have lost our focus. The commandments are there to point us to the right way. But we are just too blind to see. God help us.

 

[Nathan]

OK: But how can these ones know that they are not the Matt. 7:22 ones with their CLAIM BEING JUST THE SAME?

Love. What was the description given of the Matt 25:33-40 ones?

The claim of the Matt 7:22 was that they did these things, but their was no law in them. The law that reproves and corrects us when we go astray, the same law that has been doing the same thing, since the foundation of the world. The Matt 7:22 ones thought they were doing good, but their was no law, so they had no love.

Righteousness(law) points to God which points to Christ which points to love. Then we, receive that love, and in like manner point to Christ which points to God which points to righteousness(law).

Its all connected.