Bible Study The Law of God - The Law of Moses - The Law

[Nathan]

Nathan,
David had the written law, that was what he had to read.

We have the Word, that is what we should meditate on, we read, study, pray, teach, talk, and walk the Word.

Please tell me you at least agree with this?

We have the same exact written book he had, with some additional information that gives light to what he knew to be true.

We do meditate on the word of God. But we cannot pick and choose without it bringing consequences. Just because we are under a new covenant, one of Christ's eternal shed blood for our sins, does not negate that the rest of the information has changed.

Paul clearly states that what happened to Israel in the wilderness was FOR our learning, on whom the end of the ages has come.

Rockie, its not about agreeing and disagreeing. Its nothing personal. I must do what I am called to do, I have been called to defend the faith. That is my calling, but my desire is to bring together a oneness in the body of Christ. I know this will only be accomplished through love.

 

[Nathan]

How much time do you spend a day meditating on how you should not kill someone?

Part of me wants to make a funny. But in all seriousness it just depends. What circumstances surround me. What is going on that day. Are there times that I devote a great deal of time to this? You bet. In fact I know of times when I would spend days and days meditating on this. Killing someone physically? No, well not most of the time, but meditating on what Jesus magnified this command to; and that is hatred.

There are times when it took a long time to work through hatred issues. But guess what, those times were times of teaching for me. If I did not have the law, or believe that it was true, then I would not have learned my lesson. Now it takes so much to even get me to think about doing something against that law. Is it because I try hard not too? No, its because God has perfected in me that area of love toward my fellow man. People who know me will give witness to this.

There are other areas in my life now that God is working in. If I were to put aside the holy and righteous commandments in these areas I could make a lot of 'reasonable' excuses for my actions. But because I do not, I cannot make those excuses and am being transformed by the renewing of my mind. See, my heart desires the right thing, but my mind and flesh want otherwise. It takes meditation on these things to keep back the desires from becoming intimate with temptation to produce sin in me.

 

[Nathan]

So lets open this up some more. What passages do people believe lend to the idea of us only having two commands? What is the premise behind the idea that the ten commandments are not ALL literal with their Spiritual magnification?

 

[Who Says]

I just awoke from napping.

Per Rockie's post # 45 and Nathan's post #46: It really amplifies to us what it means to "put on Christ".

Because of this we come into possession of that bitter sweet message given to John in the book of Revelation 10:10-11. We are enabled to see just how great a number have missed the purpose of God's grace and in effect turned it into an excuse for loose conduct. Many have an emotional faith that is really dead and they are oblivious to it.

There is a bright side to that concerning a great multitude which is also a function of God's grace but for now I will not press into it.

I do want to examine that so-called "pesky" 4th commandment though. LOL.

That is cute! Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." We before would keep holy the figure of that to come but now we keep holy that which has come. And in a large way this is God's grace working through us on behalf of that great multitude that we bring to Christ through the refining heat of the great tribulation which makes many more willing to listen.

You will see what I mean when we discuss it.

Now, I know many say they will be raptured out of here before that and I say OK, I will not argue with you. But as for me, I will be right here where I am needed doing the Lord's work in cooperation with Christ's body. Our God is about saving as many as possible and he did not raise us to run when the heat is on. Now is the time to know and prepare for what is ahead.

 

[Who Says]

So lets open this up some more. What passages do people believe lend to the idea of us only having two commands? What is the premise behind the idea that the ten commandments are not ALL literal with their Spiritual magnification?

These are not simply two commands. They are (Matthew 22:40) "two commandments" upon which "hang all the law and the prophets."

When Jesus said, "all the law and the prophets", he excluded none. that means all ten are summed up in those two. If we do not personally see how it is not that Jesus lied, it is just that we do not personally yet see how. But some of us do and are willing to share it.

No, not even that "pesky" 4th commandment is omitted. I am going to not let anyone forget immediately that they called it "pesky". LOL.

 

[Nathan]

Pesky indeed.

But not so much to me. I have found great delight in this command that I had for so longed wondered about. Very refreshing.

Yes, they are not just two that wiped away all the others. The others 'hang' underneath them, intact, just as they were written. This is why they are test-imonies. If you truly are, and not as the Pharisee would, keeping and obeying the law of God, then the final test is if these things are done in love.

Just because all the others hang on these two, does not mean they are not applicable. They are, they are there. In fact, because they 'hang' on the others, you cannot but help to see them when considering (meditating) on the two above them. That is, unless you have tunnel vision.

The word translated "hang" is kremannymi

1) to hang up, suspend
2) to be suspended, to hang

The ESV translates it as "depend".

The two commands in view are never stated to have abolished, removed, replaced, or substituted the other law. The ONLY place we find ANY such reference is in the abolishment of the law as contained in ordinances, which are the sacrifices and all that surrounded them. These WERE done away with in Christ as He became our perfect sacrifice and there is no need of the blood of bulls and goats anymore.

 

[Nathan]

I just awoke from napping.

Per Rockie's post # 45 and Nathan's post #46: It really amplifies to us what it means to "put on Christ".

Because of this we come into possession of that bitter sweet message given to John in the book of Revelation 10:10-11. We are enabled to see just how great a number have missed the purpose of God's grace and in effect turned it into an excuse for loose conduct. Many have an emotional faith that is really dead and they are oblivious to it.

There is a bright side to that concerning a great multitude which is also a function of God's grace but for now I will not press into it.

I do want to examine that so-called "pesky" 4th commandment though. LOL.

That is cute! Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." We before would keep holy the figure of that to come but now we keep holy that which has come. And in a large way this is God's grace working through us on behalf of that great multitude that we bring to Christ through the refining heat of the great tribulation which makes many more willing to listen.

You will see what I mean when we discuss it.

Now, I know many say they will be raptured out of here before that and I say OK, I will not argue with you. But as for me, I will be right here where I am needed doing the Lord's work in cooperation with Christ's body. Our God is about saving as many as possible and he did not raise us to run when the heat is on. Now is the time to know and prepare for what is ahead.

Bright side indeed! God is good. Soon there will be no more tears.

I am a bit 'confused' as to the underlined post above. Not sure what you are saying here. Would you expound on it? I really want to assume, but I am going to refrain from it. However, if I was to tell you what I think you are saying, it is that you do not believe that the Sabbath day was/is a literal day? But rather a symbolism of Christ?

 

[Nathan]

One thing that is hard about these forums is the fact that we do not have knowledge of the person we are talking to. With that said, it seemed like you were hinting at the popular rapture theory as some say we will leave before it gets bad.

Although it is not apart of this study, I just want to say that we are in total agreement on this topic, as far as what you have stated about it. I say this because I know that it helps if we 'know' a little more about the person we are discussing things with, and besides....you brought it up. ;)

 

[Jake]

Part of me wants to make a funny. But in all seriousness it just depends. What circumstances surround me. What is going on that day. Are there times that I devote a great deal of time to this? You bet. In fact I know of times when I would spend days and days meditating on this. Killing someone physically? No, well not most of the time, but meditating on what Jesus magnified this command to; and that is hatred.

There are times when it took a long time to work through hatred issues. But guess what, those times were times of teaching for me. If I did not have the law, or believe that it was true, then I would not have learned my lesson. Now it takes so much to even get me to think about doing something against that law. Is it because I try hard not too? No, its because God has perfected in me that area of love toward my fellow man. People who know me will give witness to this.

There are other areas in my life now that God is working in. If I were to put aside the holy and righteous commandments in these areas I could make a lot of 'reasonable' excuses for my actions. But because I do not, I cannot make those excuses and am being transformed by the renewing of my mind. See, my heart desires the right thing, but my mind and flesh want otherwise. It takes meditation on these things to keep back the desires from becoming intimate with temptation to produce sin in me.

You do realize Jesus has higher expectations for us than the 10 commandments can ever get, right? God's expectation for us IS Jesus?

 

[Jake]

I just awoke from napping.

Per Rockie's post # 45 and Nathan's post #46: It really amplifies to us what it means to "put on Christ".

Because of this we come into possession of that bitter sweet message given to John in the book of Revelation 10:10-11. We are enabled to see just how great a number have missed the purpose of God's grace and in effect turned it into an excuse for loose conduct. Many have an emotional faith that is really dead and they are oblivious to it.

There is a bright side to that concerning a great multitude which is also a function of God's grace but for now I will not press into it.

I do want to examine that so-called "pesky" 4th commandment though. LOL.

That is cute! Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." We before would keep holy the figure of that to come but now we keep holy that which has come. And in a large way this is God's grace working through us on behalf of that great multitude that we bring to Christ through the refining heat of the great tribulation which makes many more willing to listen.

You will see what I mean when we discuss it.

Now, I know many say they will be raptured out of here before that and I say OK, I will not argue with you. But as for me, I will be right here where I am needed doing the Lord's work in cooperation with Christ's body. Our God is about saving as many as possible and he did not raise us to run when the heat is on. Now is the time to know and prepare for what is ahead.

Ok, I know you guys don't want to argue but you are not seeing what I am seeing.
Who were the 10 given to? The Isaerilites.
Why? They were pulled out of an evil society and taught how to behave
That was their covenant.
Now we have the Word, the NT, Jesus.
Who was Jesus given to? Us
Why? Because livig under the law could not save us

 

[Who Says]

One thing that is hard about these forums is the fact that we do not have knowledge of the person we are talking to. With that said, it seemed like you were hinting at the popular rapture theory as some say we will leave before it gets bad.

Although it is not apart of this study, I just want to say that we are in total agreement on this topic, as far as what you have stated about it. I say this because I know that it helps if we 'know' a little more about the person we are discussing things with, and besides....you brought it up. ;)

Yes, you are right. It does us not much good to drop things into our discussion that risk side-tracking our focus and not knowing our listeners views that can easily happen if we are not careful. We sort of derail ourselves that way sometimes.

If any disagree with what I said concerning the rapture I humbly ask that they delay its discussion for another time for the sake of advancing the subject at hand.

 

[Jake]

Yes, you are right. It does us not much good to drop things into our discussion that risk side-tracking our focus and not knowing our listeners views that can easily happen if we are not careful. We sort of derail ourselves that way sometimes.

If any disagree with what I said concerning the rapture I humbly ask that they delay its discussion for another time for the sake of advancing the subject at hand.

For me, ok, but you aren't very credible now. HA j/k

 

[Nathan]

You do realize Jesus has higher expectations for us than the 10 commandments can ever get, right? God's expectation for us IS Jesus?

I am not following your thought process here. The only step 'higher' than the Ten Commandments is love. So in that regard, yes, I understand that Jesus gave us another command. This does not mean that there is not anything else underneath these commands of love. They just further magnify how the commands should be lived out. They never negate the previous "expectation" of the ten commands.

Jhn 15:10-14 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you.

 

[Jake]

I am not following your thought process here. The only step 'higher' than the Ten Commandments is love. So in that regard, yes, I understand that Jesus gave us another command. This does not mean that there is not anything else underneath these commands of love. They just further magnify how the commands should be lived out. They never negate the previous "expectation" of the ten commands.

Jhn 15:10-14 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you.

Do not even look at another women with lust in your heart, do not have hatred in your heart or thoughts of murder, where the 10 is simply do not murder.

 

[Nathan]

Yes, you are right. It does us not much good to drop things into our discussion that risk side-tracking our focus and not knowing our listeners views that can easily happen if we are not careful. We sort of derail ourselves that way sometimes.

If any disagree with what I said concerning the rapture I humbly ask that they delay its discussion for another time for the sake of advancing the subject at hand.

I am not sure if you have noticed....there are not many on here but us.

 

[Nathan]

Do not even look at another women with lust in your heart, do not have hatred in your heart or thoughts of murder, where the 10 is simply do not murder.

I see what your saying now.

 

[Who Says]

For me, ok, but you aren't very credible now. HA j/k

Well alrighty then !!! LOL

 

[Nathan]

Do not even look at another women with lust in your heart, do not have hatred in your heart or thoughts of murder, where the 10 is simply do not murder.

So...Do you not have hatred in your heart, but believe its ok to physically murder someone? Do you refrain from lusting after women, but don't think otherwise of actually committing physical acts with them? Do you not covet others possessions, but instead just spend your time getting them yourself?

Just because something is understood better does not mean that the original meaning is erased. We simply understand the commands better now.

 

[Who Says]

I will break this up as best I can. I could not find my other writings I wrote in the past. I need to get better organized! LOL. Anyway I will just write it as the Spirit comes to me.

After the Israelites under the leadership of Joshua finally entered the promised land in fulfillment of God’s promises, we are told, (Joshua 21:44-45) “And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand. 45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.”

The Sabbath that Israel was required to keep would become both commemorative of the minor fulfillment we see at Joshua 21:44-45 and the greater fulfillment in the Messiah to come which gives those who enter him rest in a far greater way.

Never the less, the Sabbath that Israel was required to keep was also a part of the Law written to sin as it punished those who violated the letter of the Law concerning keeping the Sabbath.

Seeing what it pictured in its minor fulfillment helps us see that it is significant that God allowed Jerusalem in the first century to be surrounded around by her enemies during the Sabbath. This was a definite proof of the loss of God’s favor and protection.

 

[Jake]

Pesky indeed.

But not so much to me. I have found great delight in this command that I had for so longed wondered about. Very refreshing.

Yes, they are not just two that wiped away all the others. The others 'hang' underneath them, intact, just as they were written. This is why they are test-imonies. If you truly are, and not as the Pharisee would, keeping and obeying the law of God, then the final test is if these things are done in love.

Just because all the others hang on these two, does not mean they are not applicable. They are, they are there. In fact, because they 'hang' on the others, you cannot but help to see them when considering (meditating) on the two above them. That is, unless you have tunnel vision.

The word translated "hang" is kremannymi

1) to hang up, suspend
2) to be suspended, to hang

The ESV translates it as "depend".

The two commands in view are never stated to have abolished, removed, replaced, or substituted the other law. The ONLY place we find ANY such reference is in the abolishment of the law as contained in ordinances, which are the sacrifices and all that surrounded them. These WERE done away with in Christ as He became our perfect sacrifice and there is no need of the blood of bulls and goats anymore.

Jesus fulfilled the law, when we walk in the Spirit, it is fulfilled in us. It's completed.


Romans 8: 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Original Word: πληρόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pléroó
Phonetic Spelling: (play-ro'-o)
Short Definition: I fill, fulfill, complete
Definition: I fill, fulfill, complete.


Cognate: 4137 plēróō (from plērēs, "be full," see 4130 /plḗthō) – properly, fill to individual capacity, i.e. to the extent it is "meet" (appropriate). See 4130 (plēthō).