Bible Study The Law of God - The Law of Moses - The Law

[Nathan]

I want to make myself very clear and I said this in another thread, I am in NO WAY judging anyone for keeping the Sabbath. My own brother keeps the Sabbath and the Word tells me not to judge another for doing that.

My problem is being told I am going to hell because I do not keep the Sabbath, if I do not judge one, then they should not judge me.

Now if you present the 10 to me and tell me I am under the law, then I will debate, but I am NOT judging anyone for keeping the Sabbath.

I do not judge you either Rockie. There is only One Judge. You are not 'under' the law. The ten words are the testimony of who God is. Now, if you want to put aside the testimony of who He is, and feel that you still can obey His ways, then so be it. If you think that we can be led by the Spirit of Christ, yet not counting His testimony as true, then so be it.

The 10 testimonies of God are not meant to be burdensome. They can be obeyed. In fact most will not deny keeping to 9 out of the 10. But that pesky little 4th one gets us all worked up. Why? I am dumbfounded. Out of all the commands, you would think that this would be the one that is simplistic in nature. Jesus even states that the Sabbath was made for man. He gives us a gift, and we say "no thanks". If that is the way you want to live, so be it. I say that there is great freedom in obeying His testimony, I find great joy in keeping His witness. There is no burden on my.

 

[Jake]

What does this have to do with the testimony and witnesses of God? Yes. This is true in the ordinances and regulations, but where do we find the written testimony of God Himself in these?

.

If we are told to keep the Sabbath, then why did God have to tell us not to judge others for keeping the Sabbath?

 

[Who Says]

So...you do or do not believe it to be a literal day?

It was a day that foreshadowed a thousand years of rest from our enemies, and for the great crowd that is grace.

We are with the Lord of the Sabbath now preparing for that.

 

[Nathan]

I am aware this is in the NT, we are to be obedient to God, all that is written in the NT, there are many, many "if" statements.

We believe and we do His Word.

We were given Jesus, the Word - we were never given the covenants in the OT, those were given to the Israelites.

You still are bypassing the fact that Jesus is the one promised to THEM. The law was entrusted to Israel for them to keep it pure. If one would 'join' them, they were instructed in the ways of the law and of the testimony of God.

The OT is the word. What you clearly do not see is that ALL the NT books were written before they were all complied. So in other words, they were all speaking about the OT as we so call it when they reference the "word". The NT writers were NOT speaking about the 27 books we have of the NT.

So you do not see that it clearly states that they keep the commandments of God?

 

[Jake]

I do not judge you either Rockie. There is only One Judge. You are not 'under' the law. The ten words are the testimony of who God is. Now, if you want to put aside the testimony of who He is, and feel that you still can obey His ways, then so be it. If you think that we can be led by the Spirit of Christ, yet not counting His testimony as true, then so be it.

The 10 testimonies of God are not meant to be burdensome. They can be obeyed. In fact most will not deny keeping to 9 out of the 10. But that pesky little 4th one gets us all worked up. Why? I am dumbfounded. Out of all the commands, you would think that this would be the one that is simplistic in nature. Jesus even states that the Sabbath was made for man. He gives us a gift, and we say "no thanks". If that is the way you want to live, so be it. I say that there is great freedom in obeying His testimony, I find great joy in keeping His witness. There is no burden on my.

I can assure you God is much more than His 10 commandments. Our Sabbath IS Christ, we rest IN Him, all you who are heavy laden, rest in me, of course He is the Lord of the Sabbath - HE IS THE SABBATH!
Praise God we have Him IN us, so we may keep every day Holy unto Him and rest in Him always, we carry our Sabbath with us 24/7.

 

[Nathan]

It was a day that foreshadowed a thousand years of rest from our enemies, and for the great crowd that is grace.

We are with the Lord of the Sabbath now preparing for that.

Do you believe the first chapter of Genesis to be literal? Do you believe that Adam and Eve actually were the first man and woman?

 

[Nathan]

I can assure you God is much more than His 10 commandments. Our Sabbath IS Christ, we rest IN Him, all you who are heavy laden, rest in me, of course He is the Lord of the Sabbath - HE IS THE SABBATH!
Praise God we have Him IN us, so we may keep every day Holy unto Him and rest in Him always, we carry our Sabbath with us 24/7.

Where does it state that He is the Sabbath?

 

[Jake]

You still are bypassing the fact that Jesus is the one promised to THEM. The law was entrusted to Israel for them to keep it pure. If one would 'join' them, they were instructed in the ways of the law and of the testimony of God.

The OT is the word. What you clearly do not see is that ALL the NT books were written before they were all complied. So in other words, they were all speaking about the OT as we so call it when they reference the "word". The NT writers were NOT speaking about the 27 books we have of the NT.

So you do not see that it clearly states that they keep the commandments of God?

Oh, yes, I remember, you do not believe the NT is The Word of God. I can tell you, it IS the Word of God, just as much as the Word became flesh and walked among man.

This is very much a problem, we obey the Word, it is our New Covenant, it was given to US. It could be given to the Israelites but God hardened their hearts until the fulness of the Gentiles come in, so we have the Word.
And we can pray for the Jews, that their eyes be opened and their hearts softened and the Word will be given to them too. Praise Christ!

 

[Nathan]

If we are told to keep the Sabbath, then why did God have to tell us not to judge others for keeping the Sabbath?

Do you judge others for murdering? Do you judge them for lying?

We should not judge period. That is a standard for the whole Bible.

 

[Nathan]

Oh, yes, I remember, you do not believe the NT is The Word of God. I can tell you, it IS the Word of God, just as much as the Word became flesh and walked among man.

This is very much a problem, we obey the Word, it is our New Covenant, it was given to US. It could be given to the Israelites but God hardened their hearts until the fulness of the Gentiles come in, so we have the Word.
And we can pray for the Jews, that their eyes be opened and their hearts softened and the Word will be given to them too. Praise Christ!

Would you do me a favor and post the passage that deals with the "new" covenant.

 

[Who Says]

I My problem is being told I am going to hell because I do not keep the Sabbath, if I do not judge one, then they should not judge me.

I find it expected for the most part though sad in a way when such things are said to me. We know that we all mature at different rates.

And we know that Christ is our judge, and not they.

Look at Paul's example: 1 Corinthians 4:3 "But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self."

In other words Paul does not even allow self-doubt to condemn him. But he says elsewhere: 1 Corinthians 11:31 "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged."

So we see that Paul had great spiritual balance made possible by the love of God that was being perfected in him as he put on Christ.

 

[Jake]

Where does it state that He is the Sabbath?

Do you remember when Jesus broke the law of the Sabbath? He healed on the Sabbath? That's because He is the Lord of the Sabbath, He makes His own rules on the Sabbath.
Hebrews 10: 10 By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest indeed standeth day by day ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, the which can never take away sins:
12 but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

We no longer have to rest from our works, we rest in Him.

Mark 2: 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Read ALL of Hebrews 4

 

[Jake]

Would you do me a favor and post the passage that deals with the "new" covenant.

Nathan,
Serious, dude? Do you know the entire OT points to the NEW?

It's all there, in the OT, the entire NT is what the new is about. I can not post it all!

 

[Nathan]

Do you remember when Jesus broke the law of the Sabbath? He healed on the Sabbath? That's because He is the Lord of the Sabbath, He makes His own rules on the Sabbath.
Hebrews 10: 10 By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest indeed standeth day by day ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, the which can never take away sins:
12 but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

We no longer have to rest from our works, we rest in Him.

Mark 2: 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Read ALL of Hebrews 4

Wow Rockie. If Jesus broke a law, that would mean that He sinned. The only person who was prophesied to change times and laws was the antichrist. You will never see where He broke a law or changed a law. Would you show me where that is stated?

 

[Jake]

I find it expected for the most part though sad in a way when such things are said to me. We know that we all mature at different rates.

And we know that Christ is our judge, and not they.

Look at Paul's example: 1 Corinthians 4:3 "But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self."

In other words Paul does not even allow self-doubt to condemn him. But he says elsewhere: 1 Corinthians 11:31 "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged."

So we see that Paul had great spiritual balance made possible by the love of God that was being perfected in him as he put on Christ.

I do know that I am not to let any man judge me as God is our judge and we are to only please Him and not man, however, to me, that is the worst thing a person can say to another, except for maybe they are a devil worshipper. ha

I always find it odd when some people get hung up on one piece of doctrine, and if you dont' believe that one piece of doctrine then they claim you are not saved. That it's that ONE piece that's going to save you.

 

[Jake]

Wow Rockie. If Jesus broke a law, that would mean that He sinned. The only person who was prophesied to change times and laws was the antichrist. You will never see where He broke a law or changed a law. Would you show me where that is stated?

He did not break His law, He broke the pharisees law, but to them He broke their law. Remember when He healed on the Sabbath? Man's law was that no one was supposed to work, and He said are not sheep more important than law.

 

[Nathan]

Nathan,
Serious, dude? Do you know the entire OT points to the NEW?

It's all there, in the OT, the entire NT is what the new is about. I can not post it all!

Ok. So let me do it for you.

Luk 22:14-20 And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you I will not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God." And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, "Take this, and divide it among yourselves. For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes." And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

Your right, it does encompass the whole of the Bible. The new covenant was directed and exemplified in His blood. Why the blood? Why not the Body? Do you know much of the passover? Do you understand the significance? Tell me. What correlation does the passover have to do with the law?

 

[Nathan]

He did not break His law, He broke the pharisees law, but to them He broke their law. Remember when He healed on the Sabbath? Man's law was that no one was supposed to work, and He said are not sheep more important than law.

Exactly! I never said that the law is to be obeyed by mans standards. That does not negate God's testimony. Man's law is tradition. God's law is eternal.

 

[Jake]

Wow Rockie. If Jesus broke a law, that would mean that He sinned. The only person who was prophesied to change times and laws was the antichrist. You will never see where He broke a law or changed a law. Would you show me where that is stated?

• 1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand. 2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him. 3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth. 4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? To save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

• 5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other. 6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.

 

[Nathan]

• 1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand. 2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him. 3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth. 4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? To save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

• 5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other. 6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.

It is law-full to do good on the Sabbath. The ten commandments never state otherwise. He still did not sin, and He still did not change the law.