Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Bible Study The Law of God - The Law of Moses - The Law

Ok. So let me do it for you.

Luk 22:14-20 And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you I will not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God." And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, "Take this, and divide it among yourselves. For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes." And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

Your right, it does encompass the whole of the Bible. The new covenant was directed and exemplified in His blood. Why the blood? Why not the Body? Do you know much of the passover? Do you understand the significance? Tell me. What correlation does the passover have to do with the law?

I can tell you that Jesus is now our passover, the passover was a shadow of things to come.

Just as the law was a shadow of things to come, and now Jesus is here IN us, and He is now our Sabbath.

Do you see why God gave Israel a Sabbath Day? Because they did not have His Spirit for rest, all their work was done by flesh, the only time they could rest is on the Sabbath.

The Sabbath Day was a shadow for Jesus.

Now that Jesus is here, He lives in US, our Sabbath.

The sabbath day was never, ever given to the Gentiles.
 
Remember how we discussed saying too much? LOL :)

Peter made reference to a day being as a thousand years in his letters.

But when I consider it, that near one thousand years that Adam is said to have lived could somehow foresahdow that the last Adam (as Paul describes Christ at 1 Corinthians chapter 15) brings his offspring back to holiness in God over a similar thousand year period.

Yes, I accept by faith that what the scriptures told me is true. Not only that account but also these words of Paul:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:20 ¶But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

Real quick, I must go after this, but if you take by faith that He created everything like He said He did. Then why not believe that He actually blessed and made holy a day? Why believe everything else literal, but then say that this one thing is symbolic only?
 
Yes indeed. Even the literal thousand year day rests in Jesus.

He is our pass over Lamb and we enter into his house with his blood mark upon our door that God's wrath pass over us.

Mark 2:23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.


I went through a lengthy discussion with a woman not long ago who believed that Jesus had broken that Old Law as some think is shown here. She eventually understood but it took a few days of patience with her. I began with explaining how that could not be true and yet Jesus still be the umblemished Lamb that takes away sin. She had a hard time with that.

I am too tired tonight to go into it so this is my gift for you all to argue about.

LOL. :) I be a bit of a stinker !!!

No arguments here AND that is exactly what Jesus did, He took away sin, not something anything else could do, not sacrificial animals and not the law.
We now have the Kingdom of God in us, we are seated in the heavenly places, be Holy as your Father in Heaven is Holy.

peace -
 
Pesky indeed. :lol

But not so much to me. I have found great delight in this command that I had for so longed wondered about. Very refreshing.

Yes, they are not just two that wiped away all the others. The others 'hang' underneath them, intact, just as they were written. This is why they are test-imonies. If you truly are, and not as the Pharisee would, keeping and obeying the law of God, then the final test is if these things are done in love.

Just because all the others hang on these two, does not mean they are not applicable. They are, they are there. In fact, because they 'hang' on the others, you cannot but help to see them when considering (meditating) on the two above them. That is, unless you have tunnel vision.

The word translated "hang" is kremannymi

1) to hang up, suspend
2) to be suspended, to hang

The ESV translates it as "depend".

The two commands in view are never stated to have abolished, removed, replaced, or substituted the other law. The ONLY place we find ANY such reference is in the abolishment of the law as contained in ordinances, which are the sacrifices and all that surrounded them. These WERE done away with in Christ as He became our perfect sacrifice and there is no need of the blood of bulls and goats anymore.


Hi, kind of like a 10 link chain this one Covenant is. Two laws for God First 1-2-3-4 links or Commands & the last six still ones duty to God & to Their creation.
And Inspiration states to 'break' even one will find us Judged breaking them all. James 2:8-12. And our whole duty of Eccl. 12:13-14 surely finds the command also included for one to 'work' six days, huh?

And the 7th day Sabbath remark that was stated that us who.. ARE SDA, and who are not. Even in that suggestion, it surely borders on breaking one of these ten.

And the word pesky, surely finds in bottom/line what the world finds in the forth Command of God. LOVE???

Just a revelant thought, does one ever consider the Titus 3:9-11 verse applying to themself?? VAIN?? Is possible for God to reach some ones who teach that the forth Command of the Godhead was doctrinating a Eternal, or even a 1000 years rest including even strangers + their animals??:screwloose Inspiration through Paul sure does give a time limit for this as Titus 3:9-11 states. Regardless of which one is the party, huh? And even then, a later date might find a change taking place? (like leading up to 666) If there were others involved, it might be justified 'some' perhaps? But it seems as whatever is said finds only 2 or 3 taking things personal.

Whatever friend, but I want to go beyond into when God did indeed speak directly to His creation! And more on laws, if one really 'thinks' (believes?) that we were created with a 'Image of God' BRAIN TO THINK WITH???

And about the Sabbath Command? It is not hard for me to BELIEVE & understand Christ who gave us His Eternal Law (+ 7th Day Sabbath) AND Eternally Documenting 'IF YE LOVE ME KEEP' MY 7TH DAY SABBATH COMMAND!

And the others 'who ever they are'? (MANNNNY!) they love who??? Gen. 4:7 And as clear as Rev. 17:1-5 is, 1 John 2:4 stated by the beloved John is even more so clear when one just flat out flagrantly brings their forbidden fruit for obedience. Know God? Love God? AGAIN!! What does THE HOLY SPIRITS INSPIRATION SAY??? Unless one posts up a clear reversal (Heb. 13:8-9) of Eternal Truth, they are the Rev. 17:1-5 ones!

--Elijah
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OK, as requested, real quick.

Because that would fall shy of God's holiness which requires every day and all things in his presence to be holy as he is holy. In Christ we come before the presence of God every day, every second of each day. They all must be holy.

Why does one need a holy day if every day is holy?

You are stuck seeing it as if you yet live and will always live in this unholy world and so need a holy day.

In Christ we occupy heavenly holy places now in a spiritual sense. Every day is a holy day for us in our spiritual paradise.

You have either entered Christ and are in the presence of our holy God or you are back here in the flesh in this world.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Ephesians 2:5-6 "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"


I guess I am just going to have to hang out with the rest down here till Christ comes again.

1Th 1:9-10 For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Gal 5:5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

1Cr 1:4-8 I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge--even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you--so that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

How often do you get to come back and visit us? Sure hope a lot, I like chatting with you. ;)

Every day is holy. Has something changed that I am unaware of and the Bible doesn't speak to as far as this not being so since the creation of the world? So somewhere in the middle, (it would be great if someone could point this out to me), God changed, and instead of having a very special day that He made and set apart; now He states that each and every day is the Sabbath day???

So God forms a day. Why? Did He have to rest? Why seven days? Why not stop at six if He was finished creating?

Do we not see how our idea of the law being changed originates with this one command? So Christ, in the Spirit(came upon Him at baptism), therefore did not obey the law of God? Thats interesting. Because after His baptism, He was tempted; yet did not sin or take any "liberties". And then we find Him teaching the people at the mountain that He did not come to abolish the law, and as long as heaven and earth were still alive and kicking, so too the law was going to remain.

I get the premise that when we walk, being led by the Spirit, we are going to fulfill the law of God. But I got some news for people; we still live in this body.

Why do we need a singular 'holy' day? Great question. While I live each and every day of my life to God, why would I need to consider a special day as holy?

I do live each and every day of my life devoted to God. I stumble and fall sometimes. But I know the direction I am headed in, and its end is good. But does that mean that there is not a command there to tell me not to blaspheme Gods name? Sure there is. And the same holds true for each and every other command. They are there to let me know I am headed down the right path. They testify of my love for God and my love for man. They are not restrictive. They are nothing I would not want to do anyways.
 
There is certainly nothing wrong with setting a speacial day aside else Paul would not have said what he did in Romans 14.

My special day for the fleshly body changes according to the ability and health of my body. It may be wednsday this week, Saturday the next, or even Constantines preferred day Sunday the next.

I envy you if your health allows you to keep it the same for the sake of your flesh. But at least I do not need worry a Law will punish me for being unable to set a specific regular day aside while yet I am able to serve every day as I am able and it have value.

PS/ I very much enjoy talking to you, too, as also all of you having much affection for you.

I changed the word "great" to "much" figuring I will leave the "great" designation to God. :)

Or, maybe I just like playing with the editor :screwloose :yes

Cool!
Maybe we can talk about THE most deceiving lie of the enemy now - the rapture.:) HA.
 
Hi, kind of like a 10 link chain this one Covenant is. Two laws for God First 1-2-3-4 links or Commands & the last six still ones duty to God & to Their creation.
And Inspiration states to 'break' even one will find us Judged breaking them all. James 2:8-12. And our whole duty of Eccl. 12:13-14 surely finds the command also included for one to 'work' six days, huh?

And the 7th day Sabbath remark that was stated that us who.. ARE SDA, and who are not. Even in that suggestion, it surely borders on breaking one of these ten.

And the word pesky, surely finds in bottom/line what the world finds in the forth Command of God. LOVE???

Just a revelant thought, does one ever consider the Titus 3:9-11 verse applying to themself?? VAIN?? Is possible for God to reach some ones who teach that the forth Command of the Godhead was doctrinating a Eternal, or even a 1000 years rest including even strangers + their animals??:screwloose Inspiration through Paul sure does give a time limit for this as Titus 3:9-11 states. Regardless of which one is the party, huh? And even then, a later date might find a change taking place? (like leading up to 666) If there were others involved, it might be justified 'some' perhaps? But it seems as whatever is said finds only 2 or 3 taking things personal.

Whatever friend, but I want to go beyond into when God did indeed speak directly to His creation! And more on laws, if one really 'thinks' (believes?) that we were created with a 'Image of God' BRAIN TO THINK WITH???

And about the Sabbath Command? It is not hard for me to BELIEVE & understand Christ who gave us His Eternal Law (+ 7th Day Sabbath) AND Eternally Documenting 'IF YE LOVE ME KEEP' MY 7TH DAY SABBATH COMMAND!

And the others 'who ever they are'? (MANNNNY!) they love who??? Gen. 4:7 And as clear as Rev. 17:1-5 is, 1 John 2:4 stated by the beloved John is even more so clear when one just flat out flagrantly brings their forbidden fruit for obedience. Know God? Love God? AGAIN!! What does THE HOLY SPIRITS INSPIRATION SAY??? Unless one posts up a clear reversal (Heb. 13:8-9) of Eternal Truth, they are the Rev. 17:1-5 ones!

--Elijah

Nice Elijah, what is your God given gift again? Sending people to hell in your mind? I am a simple high school student, seeking God's Truth, I live with my brother who is a Mormon and he thinks I'm going to hell, too, because I am not a Mormon. So the hell thing surrounds me.
What is it about you Sabbath Day keepers and hell?
 
Is Paul wrong in keeping the law of God?

1Cr 9:20-22 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

Do we just casually pass by this, and say "oh well, if thats what he wants to do then so be it"? Paul never states that he was under the law of God, but he never states that he is outside the law of God.

In all reality. What is the main focus of discussions like this? One side will usually condemn the other side for not 'keeping'. But in like manner, the other side gives no real response of why they think the testimony of God is still not the testimony of God. We are believers in Christ. Why do we not think His Fathers testimony is still not true? We know that in the testimony, the Father does not speak of a "Spiritual" day, but a literal day. If we believe in faith that His words are true, why do we not believe He can bless a literal day AS HE STATES???

Its really beyond me. And no this is not just about one of the ten testimonies. But this is the "pesky" one that people dismiss, and then dismiss all the rest in like manner. Why? Because the flesh does that. You who say "I live by love", tell me, is it not love to walk according to His commands? As it is written;

Deu 10:12-22 "And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require of you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments and statutes of the LORD, which I am commanding you today for your good?

Behold, to the LORD your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it. Yet the LORD set his heart in love on your fathers and chose their offspring after them, you above all peoples, as you are this day. Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no longer stubborn.

For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe. He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing.

Love the sojourner, therefore, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt. You shall fear the LORD your God. You shall serve him and hold fast to him, and by his name you shall swear. He is your praise. He is your God, who has done for you these great and terrifying things that your eyes have seen. Your fathers went down to Egypt seventy persons, and now the LORD your God has made you as numerous as the stars of heaven.
 
OK.

But I would like to make one more comment concerning the balance Paul showed with regard to that Old Law out of love for all, including the unbelievers.

Compare Paul's words about circumcision:

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Now that sounds strong doesn't it?

But note what Paul did in connection with Timothy out of love for the as yet unbelieving Jews:

Acts 16:1 "Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:
2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek."

We see that Paul permitted circumcision for the proper reason of love toward not stumbling those to whom he preached.

So can you see how we need to also develop that balance for the sake of love and how that is different than observing that Old Law?

A close examination of Paul's letters shows this balanced principle of love in all he did and we need to realize that this balance was the main focus of his teaching, even when it comes to women wearing head coverings and teaching in the churches.

Paul taught the balanced view of God's love in all things if we are aware to look and see that he taught it.

And surely we can see that to the extent we all learn that balance of love our communication will greatly improve free of the casting of condemnation.

Hebrews 4 is a really good chapter to read that points out the old and the new, imo, too.
I am sure Nathan does not want us to talk about end time stuff on this thread, just kind of joking.
 
But then you will say "we are not Israel". But do you so willfully deny what it is written about Israel;

Eph 3:4-6 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Yet again you will say, "the body is Christ, not Israel". But again, your stubborn heart is neglectful of the fact that the promises were made not to many seeds, but one. That is Christ.

Gal 3:16-29 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.

But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.


The promises do not depend on the law. But the law is NOT contrary too them! Indeed, it upholds the promises. We are not under it, we are in it and it is in us. For it is written;

Isa 29:13-24 And the Lord said: "Because this people draw near with their mouth and honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment taught by men, therefore, behold, I will again do wonderful things with this people, with wonder upon wonder; and the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the discernment of their discerning men shall be hidden."

Ah, you who hide deep from the LORD your counsel, whose deeds are in the dark, and who say, "Who sees us? Who knows us?" You turn things upside down! Shall the potter be regarded as the clay, that the thing made should say of its maker, "He did not make me"; or the thing formed say of him who formed it, "He has no understanding"? Is it not yet a very little while until Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be regarded as a forest?

In that day the deaf shall hear the words of a book, and out of their gloom and darkness the eyes of the blind shall see. The meek shall obtain fresh joy in the LORD, and the poor among mankind shall exult in the Holy One of Israel. For the ruthless shall come to nothing and the scoffer cease, and all who watch to do evil shall be cut off, who by a word make a man out to be an offender, and lay a snare for him who reproves in the gate, and with an empty plea turn aside him who is in the right.

Therefore thus says the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob: "Jacob shall no more be ashamed, no more shall his face grow pale. For when he sees his children, the work of my hands, in his midst, they will sanctify my name; they will sanctify the Holy One of Jacob and will stand in awe of the God of Israel. And those who go astray in spirit will come to understanding, and those who murmur will accept instruction."
 
We all have one Father. He has not changed and His testimonies endure forever. They are used for instruction and not for harm. But you say "I am not under the law", willfully denying the truth and wisdom found in the keeping of His testimony. As it is written;

Jer 5:1-31 Run to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, look and take note! Search her squares to see if you can find a man, one who does justice and seeks truth, that I may pardon her.

Though they say, "As the LORD lives," yet they swear falsely. O LORD, do not your eyes look for truth? You have struck them down, but they felt no anguish; you have consumed them, but they refused to take correction. They have made their faces harder than rock; they have refused to repent.

Then I said, "These are only the poor; they have no sense; for they do not know the way of the LORD, the justice of their God. I will go to the great and will speak to them, for they know the way of the LORD, the justice of their God." But they all alike had broken the yoke; they had burst the bonds.

Therefore a lion from the forest shall strike them down; a wolf from the desert shall devastate them. A leopard is watching their cities; everyone who goes out of them shall be torn in pieces, because their transgressions are many, their apostasies are great.

"How can I pardon you? Your children have forsaken me and have sworn by those who are no gods. When I fed them to the full, they committed adultery and trooped to the houses of whores. They were well-fed, lusty stallions, each neighing for his neighbor's wife. Shall I not punish them for these things? declares the LORD; and shall I not avenge myself on a nation such as this?

"Go up through her vine rows and destroy, but make not a full end; strip away her branches, for they are not the LORD's. For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have been utterly treacherous to me, declares the LORD. They have spoken falsely of the LORD and have said, 'He will do nothing; no disaster will come upon us, nor shall we see sword or famine.

The prophets will become wind; the word is not in them. Thus shall it be done to them!'" Therefore thus says the LORD, the God of hosts: "Because you have spoken this word, behold, I am making my words in your mouth a fire, and this people wood, and the fire shall consume them. Behold, I am bringing against you a nation from afar, O house of Israel, declares the LORD. It is an enduring nation; it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language you do not know, nor can you understand what they say. Their quiver is like an open tomb; they are all mighty warriors. They shall eat up your harvest and your food; they shall eat up your sons and your daughters; they shall eat up your flocks and your herds; they shall eat up your vines and your fig trees; your fortified cities in which you trust they shall beat down with the sword."

"But even in those days, declares the LORD, I will not make a full end of you. And when your people say, 'Why has the LORD our God done all these things to us?' you shall say to them, 'As you have forsaken me and served foreign gods in your land, so you shall serve foreigners in a land that is not yours.'" Declare this in the house of Jacob; proclaim it in Judah:

"Hear this, O foolish and senseless people, who have eyes, but see not, who have ears, but hear not. Do you not fear me? declares the LORD. Do you not tremble before me? I placed the sand as the boundary for the sea, a perpetual barrier that it cannot pass; though the waves toss, they cannot prevail; though they roar, they cannot pass over it. But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart; they have turned aside and gone away. They do not say in their hearts, 'Let us fear the LORD our God, who gives the rain in its season, the autumn rain and the spring rain, and keeps for us the weeks appointed for the harvest.' Your iniquities have turned these away, and your sins have kept good from you.

For wicked men are found among my people; they lurk like fowlers lying in wait. They set a trap; they catch men. Like a cage full of birds, their houses are full of deceit; therefore they have become great and rich; they have grown fat and sleek. They know no bounds in deeds of evil; they judge not with justice the cause of the fatherless, to make it prosper, and they do not defend the rights of the needy.

Shall I not punish them for these things? declares the LORD, and shall I not avenge myself on a nation such as this?" An appalling and horrible thing has happened in the land: the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule at their direction; my people love to have it so, but what will you do when the end comes?


And yet you will still say, "are we not in Christ? These words were not meant for us", again, denying what John prophesied of those who will be tried by fire in the end;

Rev 14:9-13 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."

Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Blessed indeed," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!
 
This is our Sabbath opportunity at the moment:
Hebrews 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called TODAY; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

TODAY is the DAY that God has called by his mercy for us to take up rest in His Son.

Matthew 11:28 “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.â€

Hebrews 4:6 “Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, TODAY, after so long a time; as it is said, TODAY if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 ¶Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.â€

Do see the greater thing there that Sabbath points to?

Romans 9:29 “And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.â€

How loving of our Father to set aside the sins of any of this world who will accept and call every day TODAY for their sakes.

Amen.

Yes indeed! I do see the greater that the Sabbath points too. But it does not nullify the present holiness as it is today, and tomorrow, and the next day till the heavens and the earth pass away.
 
There is certainly nothing wrong with setting a speacial day aside else Paul would not have said what he did in Romans 14.

My special day for the fleshly body changes according to the ability and health of my body. It may be wednsday this week, Saturday the next, or even Constantines preferred day Sunday the next.

I envy you if your health allows you to keep it the same for the sake of your flesh. But at least I do not need worry a Law will punish me for being unable to set a specific regular day aside while yet I am able to serve every day as I am able and it have value.

PS/ I very much enjoy talking to you, too, as also all of you having much affection for you.

I changed the word "great" to "much" figuring I will leave the "great" designation to God. :)

Or, maybe I just like playing with the editor :screwloose :yes

Its not just a special day, it was a day made and created. A specific day. Independent of the others. A literal day that God blessed and MADE holy. We accept that He makes US holy, but cannot fathom the idea that He can make a day holy???

My flesh does not stop me one bit from keeping the Sabbath. Health, flesh and blood have no forbearance on the keeping of it. In fact, the flesh CANNOT keep the Sabbath. It is at war with God. I do not worry about the law. It is good. It is right. It is truth. It will not punish me. It testifies to my love of God and of man.

What testimony do people have who do not consider the law of God good to keep? You may say "The Spirit bears witness", and rightfully so! Indeed He does. But do you think that He would bear witness against what He has born witness too in the past??? Would He not have the same witness? Faith does not void the law, it upholds it. You can have greater faith when you see the witness of the Spirit proving to you that your love of God and man is real.
 
OK.

But I would like to make one more comment concerning the balance Paul showed with regard to that Old Law out of love for all, including the unbelievers.

Compare Paul's words about circumcision:

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Now that sounds strong doesn't it?

But note what Paul did in connection with Timothy out of love for the as yet unbelieving Jews:

Acts 16:1 "Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:
2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek."

We see that Paul permitted circumcision for the proper reason of love toward not stumbling those to whom he preached.

So can you see how we need to also develop that balance for the sake of love and how that is different than observing that Old Law?

A close examination of Paul's letters shows this balanced principle of love in all he did and we need to realize that this balance was the main focus of his teaching, even when it comes to women wearing head coverings and teaching in the churches.

Paul taught the balanced view of God's love in all things if we are aware to look and see that he taught it.

And surely we can see that to the extent we all learn that balance of love our communication will greatly improve free of the casting of condemnation.


Precisely! This is the very reason I desired us to understand the difference between ordinances and testimonies.

Ordinances are those "rules and regulations". They are the things of God that point to the person of Christ, who He is, and what He does in us. They are the ones that can be done in faith, or not done in faith.

The testimony of God, the ten words, while able to be summed up into just two words, are a continual witness to us of our walk. They 'prove' that the faith is genuine and real. They do not work for righteousness, but rather show the work of righteousness. They are what we can test ourselves with to see if the faith we walk in is true.

There is no wonder why there are so many "faiths" out there. Yet no one seems to 'care' about the other. "Its ok, as long as you have faith". So I can have faith that I love my wife, yet turn around and be intimate with another woman. Wrong! Faith will not allow me to do it. I can 'profess it with my lips', but the testimony of God stands as a witness that I have sinned.

There are many religions that love. Are they walking according to faith then? No!
 
Oh Nathan, you remind me so much of my past self. You have a deep powerful zeal.

I do not say it to condemn but to plead with you to slow down. The abundance of words creates the same veil for you that it did me.

Give yourself opportunity to think.

I am not saying all you say is wrong. And I know you believe all that you say.

It is so easy for us to sow ourselves into a window of our own wisdom.

It in fact comes quite natural to us from Adam.

You do not understand me as well as you think you do. ;)

For I myself once was dead set in the belief you have. It was good enough for me. I had a relationship with Christ. I was growing. My knowledge, understanding, and faith was increasing day by day.

There was always this underlying 'tug' however. I never could wrap my mind around it. Then I understood that God is who He said He is. He has never changed. It is us that change.

I realized that His testimonies are indeed everlasting. That they stand as witnesses of the straight and narrow path. I realized that I could keep Gods commandments, and that all this time people tried to tell me there was no way too. I realized that the writers of old were not lying, or being sarcastic when they too declared they kept the testimonies of God.

Then I realized that there is greater freedom in keeping the laws than there is without, even though thats what I had been promised since my youth. I realized that God's witness of who He is shows us a beautiful picture, yet keeps us humble in His sight. I realized that not just 9 of the commandments were literal and spiritual, but that 4th one was too.

And then I realized that it was the 4th one that showed His love for us more so than the other 9. Then I realized that the only way that we can ever love Him is because He loved us. I realized that His law shows us the way of love, and the fruit of this love is the outward showing of what is taking place inside.

I realized there was no burden, but the burden they speak about is one that is placed on by man. Then I contemplated the ways of the ones who do not keep the testimonies of God. I saw their ways. How they proclaim freedom, but yet they were slaves of law-lessness.

I realized, "hey, the Bible is a whole. There is a lot of food here to eat!" I realized that while people proclaim the law is fulfilled in two commandments, that the original words written are still lawful if one uses them lawfully. Then last but not least, I finally understood what the new birth was about. How the seal of God in my life is that His witness, His testimony, His law that is meant for good and not harm, He placed in my heart and wrote it on my mind. And THAT was why the little 'tug' would not go away.

I declare freedom in God's commands, not slavery. Just as He has done from long ago;

Deu 10:12-13 "And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require of you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments and statutes of the LORD, which I am commanding you today for your good?

I realized just what the 'new' covenant was about. A perfect sacrifice, one that would replace the flawed ones of man. Then I realized just what the passover was intended to point toward and teach about in its full.

Exd 12:48-49 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you."

Our 'keeping' of the Passover is our faith in Christ. Our circumcision is not of flesh but of the heart. And the one law given to all, is pure and good. Spiritual and not of the flesh.

See, there are most who will keep the 10 words in the flesh. Many do. But in the Spirit they break every one of them. For who soever keeps all but stumbles in one is guilty of all. I realized that keeping the Sabbath was not an outward show of piety, but an inward show of reverence. An acknowledgement of the Great and Awesome God who Created EVERYTHING, who owns EVERYTHING, yet He created a day blessed it, made it holy, and gave it to man.

I strove to keep the law in my spirit. But kept stumbling at this one point because "I was not going to be put under a yoke". Then I realized that this 'yoke' was meant for my good and not harm. It was not evil. It was not bad. It was perfect, just the way God created it.
 
Do christians sin against God because they do not meet on Saturday? That is really the bottom line. Paul tells us that one christian can esteem one day above another and another christian can esteem all days the same. I certainly see no problem with christians meeting on Saturday, however when they believe that Christ will accept them and reject all others because they see themselves as keeping the sabbath then they are in deception.
 
We were created in the Image of God. Adam had a BRAIN that was created very Good. (PERFECT!) He sinned & God told Him what was again REQUIRED to gain Everlasting Life.

OK: here is the 'thinking' thought. God told Perfect Adam & Eve to not do such & such. That WORD OF GOD THAT HE SPAKE IN PERSON WAS & IS HIS LAW! And again they disobeyed & broke the VERBAL SPOKEN LAW OF GOD, now, remember that God TALKED IN PERSON to them, (they had a perfect memory, IQ per/say, they needed [NOT] His Words in WRITING!) and again after they broke Gods Command, He COMMANDED them a way back.. CONDITIONAL!! LAW!! And if not??? Cain is the example of satan's FIRST FULL-FLEDGED SIN AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST CONVERT!Everything from here on if stated by God is CONDITIONAL TO HIS WORD WHICH IS LAW. (unless He says that it is not to be so, like the rainbow in the sky) Even Being Born Again is CONDITIONAL! Acts 5:32 That is ETERNAL LAW! And who here Loves Christ LAW??

OK: More LAW! satan was a killer from the [beginning] His first full-fledged convert (his desire now) was mankind's first killer. He satan BROKE THE ETERNAL LAW OF GOD!
But for the spiritually illiterate, whose brain is 'sleeping' (at best) they do not even find a law to be broken!?? Their brain cannot think for itself, they must see what their Rev. 17:1-5 'b'rethern of Jer. 17:5 say! They have NO 'spiritually set' idea why satan & his crew were cast from heaven, and some even question satan as the onetime covering cherub standing over the Ark of God that held & still yet does Their ETERNAL WRIITEN ORIGINAL COVENANT! (Nate.. Rev. 11:18-19) It holds THEIR LAW that satan broke in his Final Sin Against The Holy Ghost's FULLNESS of rebellion! James 1:15

And what other laws were before the flood & before the children of Israel were to be high/bred (pedigreed)for a reason even? (and who even knows that reason?? but few ones only, with freedom to think! see Acts 10:17) And this was long long before Christ was asked not to speak to them anymore directly?

---Elijah
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Do christians sin against God because they do not meet on Saturday? That is really the bottom line. Paul tells us that one christian can esteem one day above another and another christian can esteem all days the same. I certainly see no problem with christians meeting on Saturday, however when they believe that Christ will accept them and reject all others because they see themselves as keeping the sabbath then they are in deception.

No. They do not. There is documented proof that they met ALL the time. The keeping of the Sabbath has no forbearance on the meeting of people. While the testimonies of God were given to all, they are a witness of man singular relationship between him and God and him and others.

The 'esteeming' of days is in the rules and ordinances. Paul was not speaking of the testimonies of God.

I still meet with others on Sunday. I still meet with others on other days. That does not mean I do not keep the Sabbath.
 
Do christians sin against God because they do not meet on Saturday? That is really the bottom line. Paul tells us that one christian can esteem one day above another and another christian can esteem all days the same. I certainly see no problem with christians meeting on Saturday, however when they believe that Christ will accept them and reject all others because they see themselves as keeping the sabbath then they are in deception.


The BOTTOM/LINE is who DO WE LOVE GOD??? It is that simple! OK: I LOVE CHRIST & am a 7th Day Sabbath Keeper. But put your question to me your way? Can I go to HEAVEN keeping the 7th day for the right day, when I know that it would be sun stuff that was Holy?? The answer to that is NO.

So why not?? God says that for one 'TO KNOW TO DO GOOD AND DO IT NOT, TO THEM IT IS SIN.' And after a time it matures into the Sin Against The Holy Ghost. Psalms 19:13 Presumption one!

And what you or 'i' say.. or Paul, even though he was talking of Moses laws, does not have anything to do with the Godheads Eternal COMMANDMENTS.

--Elijah

PS: Take note of Eccl. 12:13-14 + the time of JUDGEMENT as seen in Rev. 11:18-19 along with His ARK that holds His TESTIMENT for Judgement! + James 2:12's DOCUMENTED verse of... SO SPEAK YE, AND SO [DO], as [THEY THAT SHALL BE JUDGED BY THEC LAW OF LIBERTY].'
 
Back
Top