The Lord Jesus Christ IS God's ELECT...

[Prince]

I have to admit up front that I not read the entire thread so I apologize if I address points already made.


Prince, one thing to carefully consider is the idea that we exist prior to our physical conception is a direct contradiction of 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 "So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL " The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven."

The verses you share would be better interpreted, imo, as showing God's omniscience and foreknowledge, as opposed to us existing prior to our conception.


The passage which speaks of Levi being in Abraham is symbolic in nature, as it says, "so to speak".

Hello Handy - Adam was the first man in the lineage that would lead to the Christ, he was not the first man. This can be seen very cleary by the use of אָדָ֛ם in Genesis chp 1:26

The haa-adam or הָֽאָדָ֗ם was not formed until Gen 2:7. and in that you have God creating a speacial soul so that the Christ could be brung forth.

Also note the word used for describring the making of haa-adam is formed - all crap - lunch time I will explain myself in detail when i get back.

 

[Hitch]

Hello Handy - Adam was the first man in the lineage that would lead to the Christ, he was not the first man. This can be seen very cleary by the use of אָדָ֛ם in Genesis chp 1:26

The haa-adam or הָֽאָדָ֗ם was not formed until Gen 2:7. and in that you have God creating a speacial soul so that the Christ could be brung forth.

Also note the word used for describring the making of haa-adam is formed - all crap - lunch time I will explain myself in detail when i get back.

PGE.

 

[Drew]

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

So since I believe Jeremiah existed before he was born through the womb, im a moron.

I understand what you are saying, but surely you can see how this form of expression could be a way for God to say that He "had a plan" for Jeremiah, and that this plan existed before Jeremiah was born.

I actually do not have a strong "verse-based" argument against your position, but I believe there are reasons to doubt "pre-existence" in heaven.

The basic counterargument is this: God created a good physical creation. To that extent, it would arguably relativize creation (make it only of "secondary" importance) if we originate "outside" that creation. This is a big problem in 21st century Christianity - effectively devaluing the goodness of the physical world in deference to a "superior" world of "spirit". So I think there is every reason to believe that God created His physical world to be the "place of origin" for all life.

I realize this is a very high-level argument, and I may need to explain myself some more.

 

[handy]

Hello Handy - Adam was the first man in the lineage that would lead to the Christ, he was not the first man. This can be seen very cleary by the use of אָדָ֛ם in Genesis chp 1:26

The haa-adam or הָֽאָדָ֗ם was not formed until Gen 2:7. and in that you have God creating a speacial soul so that the Christ could be brung forth.

Also note the word used for describring the making of haa-adam is formed - all crap - lunch time I will explain myself in detail when i get back.

PGE.

No problem, Prince, I'll look for your post when you're done.

Hitch...the problem with pithy abbreviations is that for me...PGE will always and forever stand for "Pacific Gas & Electric". Not sure that's what you're trying to convey here, and perhaps it's even best that I don't know! ;)

 

[Hitch]

Dont look Handy----------- Plant Growth Enhancer,,you looked didnt you?

 

[Prince]

PGE.

I dont know what that means Hitch, I paid my light bill..

 

[Prince]

No, not moron lol... MORMON.. it sounds like a mormon belief..

I thought he was making a play on words,, lol

 

[Prince]

Yes, I thought the same thing...I was wondering if you are a Mormon, Prince. I've a lot of Mormon neighbors and I know they believe this way.

Know I am not a Mormon. Just a believer.

 

[Prince]

I understand what you are saying, but surely you can see how this form of expression could be a way for God to say that He "had a plan" for Jeremiah, and that this plan existed before Jeremiah was born.

I actually do not have a strong "verse-based" argument against your position, but I believe there are reasons to doubt "pre-existence" in heaven.

The basic counterargument is this: God created a good physical creation. To that extent, it would arguably relativize creation (make it only of "secondary" importance) if we originate "outside" that creation. This is a big problem in 21st century Christianity - effectively devaluing the goodness of the physical world in deference to a "superior" world of "spirit". So I think there is every reason to believe that God created His physical world to be the "place of origin" for all life.

I realize this is a very high-level argument, and I may need to explain myself some more.

Drew always a pleasure bro.

I understand what you are saying, but surely you can see how this form of expression could be a way for God to say that He "had a plan" for Jeremiah, and that this plan existed before Jeremiah was born.

I agree - but my argument has not begun to present itself yet, (Im just feeling a little reluctent to produce everything I know) for one to understand my posistion one must understand the first earth age, a age in which God created souls, but do to the war in heaven God decided to have souls born through women to live on the earth to decide whom they would serve, then return back to Him for judgement.

I actually do not have a strong "verse-based" argument against your position, but I believe there are reasons to doubt "pre-existence" in heaven.

Lets be a little direct here, if what the others say is true souls are being cranked out on a conveyer belt, I mean - ask yourself? is it man having sex with women that creates souls? or is it Almighty God who creates souls and places them in the womb upon conception?

Remember - Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Interested to see your idea/posistion in full...

 

[Prince]

Wazup Handy

Do you believe the same man in Genesis 1:26 to be the same man in Genesis 2:7???

 

[handy]

Wazup Handy

Do you believe the same man in Genesis 1:26 to be the same man in Genesis 2:7???

Yep!

Let me ask this: Do you believe animals have souls? (No, I'm not going off topic, unless this thread is off topic. I still haven't read the thread, but cannot figure out what the title of the thread has to do with what we are talking about. :D )

 

[Prince]

Yep!

Let me ask this: Do you believe animals have souls? (No, I'm not going off topic, unless this thread is off topic. I still haven't read the thread, but cannot figure out what the title of the thread has to do with what we are talking about. :D )

Yep!

I can show you why you are wrong.

Let me ask this: Do you believe animals have souls?

LOL thats a random question unless my answer will reveal somethig to you.

Before I did not, for that is what was thaught, but my recent studys have proved contrary to my prior belief.... Intense study below.

The Use of Nephesh in the Old Testament. - Appendix to the Companion Bible

(No, I'm not going off topic, unless this thread is off topic.

Many threads end back up in Genesis...

I still haven't read the thread, but cannot figure out what the title of the thread has to do with what we are talking about

It turned a little when I said I dont believe Adam was the first man, but thats ok.

 

[handy]

Before I did not, for that is what was thaught, but my recent studys have proved contrary to my prior belief.... Intense study below.

Perhaps you have a "cliff notes" version! lol

Many threads end back up in Genesis...

Many threads end up all over the place around here.

Barring the "Cliff Notes" version of why and how you came to believe that Adam was not the first man, can you explain why when 1 Corinthians tells us that the physical comes first then the spiritual, why it doesn't mean exactly that?

 

[savedbygrace57]

even:

And I'm telling you NO..

I can just show you the Truth, cant make you believe it..

 

[savedbygrace57]

even:

If you were IN CHRIST before you were born, then how could you be condemned in Adam..?

None of the elect were ever condemned Legally in Adam. Christ had all the legal condemnation of the elect charged to Him, thats why paul says rom 8:


33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 

[Eventide]

even: I can just show you the Truth, cant make you believe it..

How would you know the truth.. are you the standard for what's true.. ? I know that Calvinists typically think that they are although that doesn't make it true.. lol

 

[Eventide]

even:



None of the elect were ever condemned Legally in Adam. Christ had all the legal condemnation of the elect charged to Him, thats why paul says rom 8:


33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Maybe you should correct the apostle to the Gentiles then.. because he writes this..

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

See where it says ALL MEN... and of course you forget an important part of Romans 8..

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Prince]

Perhaps you have a "cliff notes" version! lol


Many threads end up all over the place around here.

Barring the "Cliff Notes" version of why and how you came to believe that Adam was not the first man, can you explain why when 1 Corinthians tells us that the physical comes first then the spiritual, why it doesn't mean exactly that?

Sup,,

The notes I left where the beginning study of why I believe animals do in fact have souls...

As far as Adam (haa-adam) I am 100% positive that he was not the first man, but he was the first man that would lead to Christ

Barring the "Cliff Notes" version of why and how you came to believe that Adam was not the first man, can you explain why when 1 Corinthians tells us that the physical comes first then the spiritual, why it doesn't mean exactly that

Although I have a felling I know what your asking, could yougive me the exact verses in which you speak of? THX

 

[Vic C.]

totopic

I don't want to see any more extra Biblical theories in this thread.

 

[Prince]

totopic

I don't want to see any more extra Biblical theories in this thread.

Hello Vic,

The title of this thread is "The Lord Jesus Christ IS God's ELECT"... But the bible never declares that as a matter of fact there is not one verse thats says this...Isnt that kinda theory in itself since no verse has been presented to back this?