The Lord Jesus Christ IS God's ELECT...

[savedbygrace57]

No he didn't exist before he was born.. did you ?

I am giving you the testimony of scripture as to what God said !


did levi exist [In God's esimation] before he was born naturally through his parents ?

heb 7:


9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Did Jeremiah

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Yes he did...

Excellent verse. As Far as God was concerned Jeremiah existed, and that should be most important and not our carnal reasoning..

 

[Eventide]

This is like the second or third time you have thru in one of these rude pre-judged responses.

I am not exalting myself, all im saying is my soul is older then my body.

And I can prove my words unlike you, who seem to have a tendency to speak from your own accord..... Anyhow lets review

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

There's NO PLACE in scripture which teaches that YOU or ME or any other person in Adam existed before we were born.. God's foreknowing doesn't mandate that they existed, but that God foreknows all things.. because He created all things..

This portion is speaking of the LORD foreknowing the prophet before he was born.. and nowhere does it teach that the prophet existed before he was born.

God makes it clear that He knew Jeremiah long before Jeremiah was born,, why???

Because God foreknows all things.. even the end from the beginning..

Because the soul of Jeremiah was made long ago, and was in heaven until God decided Jeremiah needed to be born to help fulfill Gods purpose...

Well, back it up with scripture.. what you just said.. that Jeremiah existed in heaven before he was born.

13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven

Understand, everybody living on this earth was in heaven before they were born - we start in heaven we come down to the earth and we live die and go back to heaven even Jesus did this.

Really... my bible says that God created all nations from one blood.. not that they existed in heaven and then were sent to earth.. where do you get this from ?

Perhaps you can start a thread about how you existed in heaven before you were born naturally through your parents..

You seem to speak to me as if your a teacher and I lack some kind of knowledge that prevents me from understanding your words,,,NAY

Your words are not founded off scripture....

Yours certainly are not... your claim that you existed in heaven before you were born.. NOW we know that this is true of the Lord Jesus Christ.. and that's why you're basically exalting yourself to God likeness.. claiming an existence before you were born into this world.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Thats a good point kinda like Gods feeling towards Esau before he was born.

Yes, Notice heb 2:

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

The Children here are the children God gave to Christ before the foundation see vs 13.. And notice the writer says they were the Children before they partook of flesh and blood, meaning before they were made in Adam, from where their flesh and blood life was derived..

 

[Eventide]

I am giving you the testimony of scripture as to what God said !


did levi exist [In God's esimation] before he was born naturally through his parents ?

heb 7:


9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

And I'm telling you NO..

Where does it teach YOU that Levi existed before he was born..? What part specifically..?

I was in the loins of my granparents and great granparents etc... but that doesn't mean that I existed..

AND what difference would it make if all men are condemned in Adam.. ?

 

[Eventide]

SBG,

If you were IN CHRIST before you were born, then how could you be condemned in Adam..?

IOW... How could you be condemned if you were ALREADY IN Christ ?

 

[Prince]

There's NO PLACE in scripture which teaches that YOU or ME or any other person in Adam existed before we were born.. God's foreknowing doesn't mandate that they existed, but that God foreknows all things.. because He created all things..

This portion is speaking of the LORD foreknowing the prophet before he was born.. and nowhere does it teach that the prophet existed before he was born.



Because God foreknows all things.. even the end from the beginning..



Well, back it up with scripture.. what you just said.. that Jeremiah existed in heaven before he was born.



Really... my bible says that God created all nations from one blood.. not that they existed in heaven and then were sent to earth.. where do you get this from ?

Perhaps you can start a thread about how you existed in heaven before you were born naturally through your parents..



Yours certainly are not... your claim that you existed in heaven before you were born.. NOW we know that this is true of the Lord Jesus Christ.. and that's why you're basically exalting yourself to God likeness.. claiming an existence before you were born into this world.

I am not exalting myself, the problem is you do not understand the word at the level you speak at, in short you dont know what your talking about...

For example

your claim that you existed in heaven before you were born.. NOW we know that this is true of the Lord Jesus Christ.. and that's why you're basically exalting yourself to God likeness.

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven,

No-man do you understand that "No Man" - not you not me not uncle joe not the president, no man has went up to heaven but he came down first.

You cant go to heaven unless you come down from heaven live on this earth die and go back to heaven...

The text says "even" Jesus - That mean no-one goes to heaven even Jesus without coming down from heaven first.

Perhaps this will help

καὶ οὐδεὶς ἀναβέβηκεν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν εἰ μὴ ὁ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καταβάς, ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου,

Original Word: μή
Part of Speech: Particle, Negative
Transliteration: mé
Phonetic Spelling: (may)
Short Definition: not, lest
Definition: not, lest.

3361 mḗ (a particle which functions as an adverb) – no, not. 3361 (mḗ) negates "subjectively," ruling out any implications ("suggestions") that could be involved with what should (could, would) apply.
3361 /mḗ ("not") negates the underlying idea (concept) of a statement, ruling out its possibilities, i.e. all that it suggests on a conceptual or hypothetical plane.
[3361 /mḗ ("not, no") then negates the implications (suggestions) that naturally spring from the negated statement.]

 

[Eventide]

I am not exalting myself, the problem is you do not understand the word at the level you speak at, in short you dont know what your talking about...

For example



And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven,

No-man do you understand that "No Man" - not you not me not uncle joe not the president, no man has went up to heaven but he came down first.

You cant go to heaven unless you come down from heaven live on this earth die and go back to heaven...

The text says "even" Jesus - That mean no-one goes to heaven even Jesus without coming down from heaven first.

Perhaps this will help

καὶ οὐδεὶς ἀναβέβηκεν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν εἰ μὴ ὁ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καταβάς, ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου,

Original Word: μή
Part of Speech: Particle, Negative
Transliteration: mé
Phonetic Spelling: (may)
Short Definition: not, lest
Definition: not, lest.

3361 mḗ (a particle which functions as an adverb) – no, not. 3361 (mḗ) negates "subjectively," ruling out any implications ("suggestions") that could be involved with what should (could, would) apply.
3361 /mḗ ("not") negates the underlying idea (concept) of a statement, ruling out its possibilities, i.e. all that it suggests on a conceptual or hypothetical plane.
[3361 /mḗ ("not, no") then negates the implications (suggestions) that naturally spring from the negated statement.]

Prince, imo you don't know what you're talking about.. and in all my Christian years I have never heard any person speak about how that THEY existed in heaven before they were born naturally through their parents..

As mentioned.. please start a thread on that.. I'd be willing to bet that you don't get many people agreeing with you on this idea of yours that you existed in heaven before you were born on earth.

 

[Prince]

Prince, imo you don't know what you're talking about.. and in all my Christian years I have never heard any person speak about how that THEY existed in heaven before they were born naturally through their parents..

As mentioned.. please start a thread on that.. I'd be willing to bet that you don't get many people agreeing with you on this idea of yours that you existed in heaven before you were born on earth.

Prince, imo you don't know what you're talking about

Actually I do...

And I keep showing scripture that backs my words and you keep talking and talking never quite getting it....Here is yet another scripture that shows we existed before we were born in the flesh.

10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

God hated Esau before he was born...

FRom TSO -


John 3:5 "Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
"Verily, verily" is "truly, truly". Jesus is telling him that there must be two births necessary; the birth of the water and of the spirit. Many people teach that this "born of the water", means to be baptized, and this is not what is being talked about. To be born from above is to be born of the womb of your mother. Every child is born in a bag of water, in fact the normal birth is announced by the breaking of the waters with in the birthing bag. So we see in this that one must be born of woman, in innocence, and then "be born of the spirit".
Born of the spirit means to accept the Spirit of Christ. That soul choosing by free will the Spirit of Christ into their spirit. That is what the marriage of Christ is all about; to become one in Christ.
This is why most people simply do not know what being "born from above means", when they disregard what happened in the book of Genesis, and in that first earth age. They overlook all of Satan's attempts to destroy the womb of woman, and God's plan to send us His Son that we might have redemption. God intervened in Satan attempt, as He always will do. This is why the book of Jude is so important.
John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
To understand this, lets go to I Corinthians 15:50; "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."
No soul in its flesh and blood body can enter the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of Heaven is where ever God is, and for the soul to enter that kingdom, it must first die or be changed. The soul must be separated from the flesh first before that soul returns to the Father that created it. This is the basic principle of the plan of our heavenly Father.
Remember back in Ecclesiastes 12:7; God told us what happens to the soul and the flesh when the flesh body dies. "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and thespirit shall return unto God Who gave it."
Our flesh bodies are the accumulation of all the elements from the earth that we consume by eating. Upon death of ones body, the process then returns the decaying flesh body back to those elements. The soul's spirit came from God, and it will return to God when this flesh body dies. All will return to the Father, for He is the judge of your soul; whether for destruction or eternal life.
Jesus is teaching Nicodemus here, and Jesus knew that Nicodemus should have understand, but didn't.
John 3:7 "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."
"Ye must be born again", as we have see, "ye must be born from above." If you are not born from above, that is to say, "born of woman", then you would be either a demonic spirit, or from a fallen angel. This is against God's law and the plan of God.
John 3:8 "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell from whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."
Jesus is using an analogy here. He is saying you can hear the wind, but you can't see it. You can see the objects that are blown about in the wind, but the flow of the air itself you can not see.
When man's spirit separates from the flesh body, the soul's spirit goes where the soul goes. Man's spirit is the intellect of his soul which is that part of him that controls his soul and tells him what to do. The soul and the spirit are as one. The spirit is where your emotions come from and it gives you the ability to know right from wrong. It is from your spirit that your conscience gives you directions.
Jesus is saying that you cannot see where your spirit goes, for it is like the wind to our flesh senses, when it ascends to the Father. When you are with a loved one at the moment of death, you will not see the soul and spirit depart that physical body at the moment of death. But if you are familiar with that soul, your spirit will know when that soul has departed. Many times it has been reported that the ones that have died have spoken and talked to a loved one that has passed on, just prior to their giving up the spirit of life. God will send an angel to accompany the departing soul, into that transfer of the soul back to the Father that gave it.
Each soul must enter into an embryo once, and live in the human flesh as man [women] once, and during that life time each person has the free will to chose whom he will follow God, or Satan. At the close of this life; at God's appointed time, and for God's purposes, that flesh body is discarded, and the soul departs from the body, and returns to the Father that sent it. There is no transmigration of souls, as is taught in the eastern religions, but one soul, that enters one body, and lives in the body, until God appoints that soul to return home to heaven with Him.

 

[Eventide]

Actually I do...

And I keep showing scripture that backs my words and you keep talking and talking never quite getting it....Here is yet another scripture that shows we existed before we were born in the flesh.

10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

God hated Esau before he was born...

So where does any of this say that these people EXISTED IN HEAVEN before they were BORN into this world..?

I challenge you to start a thread explaining how that YOU EXISTED IN HEAVEN before you were born.. I doubt if you will though because I think that you know how CRAZY your idea actually is..

AND BTW, the scriptures do not teach that God hated Esau before he was born.. that is written in Malachi who lived hundreds of years AFTER Esau was on the earth, and did things like sell his own birthright..

 

[Prince]

So where does any of this say that these people EXISTED IN HEAVEN before they were BORN into this world..?

I challenge you to start a thread explaining how that YOU EXISTED IN HEAVEN before you were born.. I doubt if you will though because I think that you know how CRAZY your idea actually is..

AND BTW, the scriptures do not teach that God hated Esau before he was born.. that is written in Malachi who lived hundreds of years AFTER Esau was on the earth, and did things like sell his own birthright..

2 Corinthians 5:6-8
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7(For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. KJV​

 

[Sinthesis]

So where does any of this say that these people EXISTED IN HEAVEN before they were BORN into this world..?

I challenge you to start a thread explaining how that YOU EXISTED IN HEAVEN before you were born.. I doubt if you will though because I think that you know how CRAZY your idea actually is..

AND BTW, the scriptures do not teach that God hated Esau before he was born.. that is written in Malachi who lived hundreds of years AFTER Esau was on the earth, and did things like sell his own birthright..

Strike "CRAZY"
Insert "MORMON"

 

[Eventide]

2 Corinthians 5:6-8
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7(For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. KJV​

I think you're getting a little desperate here Prince.. it doesn't teach that they existed in heaven before they were born..

So how about starting that thread.. and then you can get all kinds of feedback on this idea of yours that you existed in heaven before you were born into this world.

 

[Eventide]

Strike "CRAZY"
Insert "MORMON"

Thank you, I was trying to think of where this might fit in.. lol

 

[Prince]

Strike "CRAZY"
Insert "MORMON"

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

So since I believe Jeremiah existed before he was born through the womb, im a moron.

 

[Prince]

I think you're getting a little desperate here Prince.. it doesn't teach that they existed in heaven before they were born..

So how about starting that thread.. and then you can get all kinds of feedback on this idea of yours that you existed in heaven before you were born into this world.

Your talking alot of time that I dont have at the moment. Perhaps I will get it started I highly doubt I would be able to post it as a new thread today, well I'l give it a shoot.

Can I assume you believe souls are created in the womb of a woman?

 

[Drew]

2 Corinthians 5:6-8

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7(For we walk by faith, not by sight

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. KJV​

This does not really support the idea that we existed in heaven before birth. This text could be read as a statement about what happens to us after death.

So while this one text does not rule out pre-existence in heaven, it does not support this notion either.

 

[handy]

I have to admit up front that I not read the entire thread so I apologize if I address points already made.


Prince, one thing to carefully consider is the idea that we exist prior to our physical conception is a direct contradiction of 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 "So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL " The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven."

The verses you share would be better interpreted, imo, as showing God's omniscience and foreknowledge, as opposed to us existing prior to our conception.


The passage which speaks of Levi being in Abraham is symbolic in nature, as it says, "so to speak".

 

[Eventide]

So since I believe Jeremiah existed before he was born through the womb, im a moron.

No, not moron lol... MORMON.. it sounds like a mormon belief..

 

[handy]

No, not moron lol... MORMON.. it sounds like a mormon belief..

Yes, I thought the same thing...I was wondering if you are a Mormon, Prince. I've a lot of Mormon neighbors and I know they believe this way.