The Lord Jesus Christ IS God's ELECT...

[savedbygrace57]

Yeah, and you believe that the living and powerful word of God is all summed up in John Calvin.. lol.. I think everyone knows who has been fooled here..

I believe the Truth and witness to it, but you are duped into believing its the word of a man..too bad..

 

[Alabaster]

Oh, which ones specifically do you believe speak about God choosing YOU ?

All of them.

So how does that work.. ? God choose YOU but at the same time if YOU shall seek to save YOUR LIFE you shall lose it ?

I don't need to seek to save my life. It is hidden with Christ in God. Whatever He wishes to do with it, is OK with me.

Are you saying that your life is justified before God or are you saying that the life of Christ in you is justified before God ?

I stand justified before God because of the cleansing of the blood of Jesus.

 

[Eventide]

I believe the Truth and witness to it, but you are duped into believing its the word of a man..too bad..

Yeah, I'm sure that the living and powerful word of God is all summed up in Calvinistic teaching.. lol.. well, I shouldn't laugh.. many people are led to believe that.

 

[Eventide]

All of them.

And after all this time I thought that the scriptures testified of the Lord Jesus Christ.. silly me... they're about God choosing YOU !

I stand justified before God because of the cleansing of the blood of Jesus.

You, or the life of Christ in you ?

Who lives in this verse..

I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I lve, yet NOT I, but CHRIST liveth in me.. ?

How about this..

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Whose life is justified ? Yours or Christ's ?

Hint: He is the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE..

 

[Alabaster]

And after all this time I thought that the scriptures testified of the Lord Jesus Christ.. silly me... they're about God choosing YOU !

I think you are purposely being obtuse. Of course He chose me. He chooses all of us who come to Him. that is why Jesus came and that is why we have the Scriptures.

Psalm 139:16 NLT
You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your book.
Every moment was laid out
before a single day had passed.

You, or the life of Christ in you ?

I personally am justified by the blood of Jesus.

Who lives in this verse..

I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I lve, yet NOT I, but CHRIST liveth in me.. ?

Jesus lives His life in and through me. Praise God!

How about this..

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Whose life is justified ? Yours or Christ's ?

I have His justification in hand!

Hint: He is the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE..

Amen!

 

[Eventide]

I think you are purposely being obtuse. Of course He chose me. He chooses all of us who come to Him. that is why Jesus came and that is why we have the Scriptures.

He chooses us IN CHRIST, absolutely.. not in our fleshly Adamic nature but through belief in the truth and by ssancification of the SPIRIT..

Flesh gives birth to flesh, Spirit to Spirit..

Which one does God choose ?

Psalm 139:16 NLT
You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your book.
Every moment was laid out
before a single day had passed.

Any this is what you base God choosing you on ?

I personally am justified by the blood of Jesus.

Again, YOU or the life of Christ in you.. ?

You do know that Christ lives in you right ?

Jesus lives His life in and through me. Praise God!

You neglected to answer the question though.. who is alive and who is crucified there ?

I have His justification in hand!

So is walking in the flesh justified nopw that you're in Christ ?

 

[Alabaster]

He chooses us IN CHRIST, absolutely.. not in our fleshly Adamic nature but through belief in the truth and by ssancification of the SPIRIT..

Flesh gives birth to flesh, Spirit to Spirit..

Which one does God choose ?



Any this is what you base God choosing you on ?



Again, YOU or the life of Christ in you.. ?

You do know that Christ lives in you right ?

You neglected to answer the question though.. who is alive and who is crucified there ?

Christ lives in and through me. He doesn't usurp who I am. He makes me who He has had in mind forever. He delights in who I am, for He created me uniquely, just as He created you.

God doesn't make us a bunch of cookie-cutter Christians.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Yeah, I'm sure that the living and powerful word of God is all summed up in Calvinistic teaching.. lol.. well, I shouldn't laugh.. many people are led to believe that.

Yep, the devil has you where he wants you, just as long as you reject God's Truth, any ole excuse will do..

 

[Eventide]

Yep, the devil has you where he wants you, just as long as you reject God's Truth, any ole excuse will do..

I never thought that I'd hear this from a professing Christian.. rejecting John Calvin is rejecting God's truth..

Well at least you're one of the SPECIAL ones who were chosen along with God's Son.. so you might as well keep preaching about how special you are and how anyone who doesn't blindly follow your man John Calvin is where the devil wants them..

I didn't think that type of delusion was possible.. and you're the elect !

 

[Eventide]

Christ lives in and through me. He doesn't usurp who I am. He makes me who He has had in mind forever. He delights in who I am, for He created me uniquely, just as He created you.

God doesn't make us a bunch of cookie-cutter Christians.

So I'll take that as you do not understand that Christ lives in you.. otherwise who do you serve.. yourself or Christ in you ?

Can a person serve two masters..?

How about the war between the flesh and the Spirit.. ?

You were born naturally the first time according to the flesh.. and did you know that all flesh is condemned in Adam... every single one of us... so how do you figure that God is choosing YOU when you were born according to the flesh ?

Evidently you must believe that you are exempt from that condemnation.. again... it's a SPECIAL thing..

Evidently you do not need to take up your cross and follow Christ because He chose YOU..

 

[Eventide]

Yep, the devil has you where he wants you, just as long as you reject God's Truth, any ole excuse will do..

SBG.. are you exempt from taking up your cross and following Christ ? Are you one of the special ones who doesn't need to do that ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

SBG.. are you exempt from taking up your cross and following Christ ? Are you one of the special ones who doesn't need to do that ?

Dont worry about me, you need to be concern on how you take the word of God and give yourself a excuse for rejecting it by claiming it is the word of john calvin..

 

[savedbygrace57]

even:

I never thought that I'd hear this from a professing Christian.. rejecting John Calvin is rejecting God's truth..

You are rejecting God's Truth and saying you are rejecting john calvin..

 

[Eventide]

even:



You are rejecting God's Truth and saying you are rejecting john calvin..

Yeah, like John Calvin and Jesus Christ are on the same page.. seriously.. you must be joking.

 

[Eventide]

Dont worry about me, you need to be concern on how you take the word of God and give yourself a excuse for rejecting it by claiming it is the word of john calvin..

I'm not worried AT ALL about you.. I'm asking a simple question..

Are you or are you not exempt from taking up your cross, denying yourself, and following Christ ?

 

[Alabaster]

So I'll take that as you do not understand that Christ lives in you.. otherwise who do you serve.. yourself or Christ in you ?

Of course, you judge wrongly. There is something missing in your own understanding of the life lived in Christ.

Can a person serve two masters..?

How about the war between the flesh and the Spirit.. ?

It goes on!

You were born naturally the first time according to the flesh.. and did you know that all flesh is condemned in Adam... every single one of us... so how do you figure that God is choosing YOU when you were born according to the flesh ?

He created me. He knows me. He loves me. He died for me, and He is working out His plan in and through me, alive in Him.

Evidently you must believe that you are exempt from that condemnation.. again... it's a SPECIAL thing..

Yes I am. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ.

Evidently you do not need to take up your cross and follow Christ because He chose YOU..

Everyone who is His needs to do just that.

 

[Eventide]

The question which Calvinist's can't answer...

Are you or are you not exempt from taking up your cross, denying yourself, and following Christ ?

Because then how could they go on and on and on about how they are the unconditionally chosen of God while never mentioning the Lord Jesus Christ being the elect..?

That's no fun..

 

[Who Says]

1. And what does Christ's death for our sins accomplish - what is the intended end result of that sacrifice? I assume you will say that we are saved into eternal life by Christ's death on the cross. If not, correct me.
If so, then is Christ's death for our sins -
a) the direct and sufficient cause of our salvation
OR
b) the instrumental cause in making possible something else that is needed for our salvation?

2. In this verse - what does it mean to "believe in Christ"?
Joh 3:15 so that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Surely, there is a difference between "believing something", "believing someone" and "believing in someone". So are we saved because we "believe something" or because we "believe someone" or because we "believe in someone"? Whichever your reply is - kindly elaborate on what you mean by that.



I too agree that the Gospel comes from God but that was not my question. I asked where does one's faith come from - from man himself or from God.

A correction - Calvinists do not believe anything is independent of God. They believe everything happens according to the sovereign will of God alone.

A clarification - I sense a bias in your statement where you think a Calvinist's belief has to be taught by some other man and cannot be derived directly from the Bible. This was what I tried to avoid in my initial assertion that a denomination driving one's beliefs is totally different from one's beliefs classifying him there. If a denomination taught me what to believe, then your statement is true. But if I arrived at it on my own and then found it to be what that denomination also believes, then why do you presume that I should have been taught of that denomination?


True, even Christians can commit sins - but Christians can also do good works in the sight of God by the working of the Spirit in them.
My question is this - can an unbeliever, who does not have the Spirit of God in him, do any good work in the sight of God or not?
a) Yes
b) No

(1) My answer is b) the instrumental cause in making possible something else that is needed for our salvation?

You also said: "I assume you will say that we are saved into eternal life by Christ's death on the cross. If not, correct me."

In the ransom we are given the opportunity to cooperate with Christ's cleansing of us by the bath in the water of the word as we act deliberately to put away the flesh and its filth and let our minds be made over so that we learn to effectively walk after God's holy spirit.

(2) We must believe IN Christ, but that does not simply mean believing he is Christ. It means that we submit to containing all that we believe within the parameters of what Christ believes and we do not believe outside of what he believes. And if a person really believes something that belief produces fruitage in them. Thus we will be seen to be transforming and growing in our image of Christ. He being the unblemished image of God we thus cleanse the image we bear of God to return it to God's glory as it was before sin.

(3) If faith came from God all would have it. Faith originates from a man's heart. God blesses a man's faith and helps that man to build on it.

(4) No. The unbeliever who has not the spirit cannot do works that have any credit with God as such a man is dead in his sins. Such a man may do random good works but it merits him nothing but in this life. He has not submitted to allowing God through Christ to regenerate him spiritually.

 

[ivdavid]

Just got back from out of town... hope we can continue....

Elected means chosen, it's the same thing... and we know for a fact that the Lord chooses NONE in Adam.. in fact, every last one is condemned in Adam, in their FLESH.. flesh gives birth to flesh.. SPIRIT gives birth to SPIRIT..

If you're asking what God sees in me,in the Flesh, that gives Him reason to elect me, then the answer is - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
God sees nothing in me, in the flesh, to elect me to be in Christ. I have given Him absolutely no reason to do so. In that sense, I am not special in any way or above the rest in any way or any such thing you suppose.

Why God still elects is solely because of His own sovereign will and pleasure - there is nothing deserving in me.

Those who DO TRUST in Christ.. they are placed into the BODY OF CHRIST (who is the elect, the chosen of God) and they are therefore the elect of God.. because they are IN CHRIST.

But from the above I can see that you do not accept God's sovereignty to play any role in this - you're saying that we must give God a reason to save us - namely, that we must somehow merit it by placing ourselves in Christ [by believing] - after which God chooses us in Christ because of Christ Himself.

This is my question then - can we men, in the flesh, place ourselves in Christ by ourselves? Can we, by the ability of our flesh, repent and believe by ourselves?

 

[ivdavid]

I'm expecting the scriptural reason as to why you claimed that God CHOSE/ELECTED You TO BE In Christ..

How do you interpret the following? What is meant by 'born through the promise'?

Note, the promise was made in Isaac even before he was born. On what basis was this promise made then?

Gal 4:22 For it is written: Abraham had two sons, the one out of the slave-woman, and one out of the free woman.
Gal 4:23 But, indeed, he out of the slave-woman has been born according to flesh, and he out of the free woman through the promise;