Bible Study The Lord's Day....the 7th Day Sabbath

[SputnikBoy]

What does this commandment mean:

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Exodus 20:12

Please analyze and explain the entire commandment.

Thanks,
Solo

Well, I decided to check out the NIV Study Bible to see if it gave any particular significance to this scripture. It says this: Exodus 20:12 Honor. (1) Prize highly (see Pr 4:8), (2) care for (see Ps 91:15), (3) show respect for (see Lev 19:3; 20:9), and (4) obey (see Dt 21:18-21; cf. Eph 6:1). so that you may live long. "The first commandment with a promise" (Eph 6:2). See also note on Dt 6:2.

I'm not sure what you're after, Solo. Is this an implication that this command in particular was given specifically to the Jews and, therefore, so were the others?

 

[Heidi]

You neglect, Jay, that Hebrews 4:1-9 redefines the seventh day under the new covenant. The seventh day is now today.

Today, is the 7th day Sabbath ?

Hebrews 10:1, "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming-not the realities themselves." The reality of the Sabbath is today that we rest from our work once and for all because of Christ's death, just as God rested from His work once and for all.

Now, you aren't trying to separate the 4th commandment from, the rest of the other 9 are you ?

The Sabbath is Today when God poured out his Grace to his children from pentecost on. Ever since pentecost, we now can come to Christ for rest from our own work once and for all. "It is finished" once and for all, just like God's work of creation was finished one and for all. TThat's what the seventh day rest is all about, not just sitting around then going back to work on Monday. It's much more siginificant than that!

Why do you think it was a commandment? :o Why do you think God thinks rest is so important? Do you not think he wants us to honor him everyday and get some rest everyday? If so, then why set aside one holy day for rest? The seventh day is the completion of all God's work by Christ's sacrifice once and for all for us. It is a very siginifcant day which is why the bible calles it Today and even capitalizes it because it represents everyday since pentecost.

 

[SputnikBoy]

If I had a dollar for every time I've posted this I'd be a rich man. Heidi, you've misinterpreted that scripture. Again, and again, and again, TODAY means that THIS VERY DAY is the day on which to accept the gift of Salvation! It has NOTHING to do with the abolition of the weekly Sabbath!!!

 

[Solo]

What does this commandment mean:

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Exodus 20:12

Please analyze and explain the entire commandment.

Thanks,
Solo

Well, I decided to check out the NIV Study Bible to see if it gave any particular significance to this scripture. It says this: Exodus 20:12 Honor. (1) Prize highly (see Pr 4:8), (2) care for (see Ps 91:15), (3) show respect for (see Lev 19:3; 20:9), and (4) obey (see Dt 21:18-21; cf. Eph 6:1). so that you may live long. "The first commandment with a promise" (Eph 6:2). See also note on Dt 6:2.

I'm not sure what you're after, Solo. Is this an implication that this command in particular was given specifically to the Jews and, therefore, so were the others?

No, I believe that this commandment has also been fulfilled by Jesus Christ, and that there is a more indepth meaning and level of obedience attributed to it that surpasses the Law given to Moses and the Hebrews.

I wanted to know what the commandment of promise promised to those that honoured their father and mother. Do you think that if a person honors his father and mother he is promised a long life on this earth?

Thanks for the post.

 

[John the Baptist]

Are the 'broadway some' telling us that Paul is talking about Gods 10 Commandments being a curse??
If so, you best check out Gal. 2:11-13 to see what 'the subject' being addressed was about? 'of the circumcism'! Then 16-18 was still pointing to this same topic!

And if that is not clear, read verse 11 for where Paul called Peter down? The reference is seen in Acts 5:1-2 & has absolutely NOTHING to do with God Royal Law or ten commandments written in stone!

Notice the verse:
"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said,] Except ye 'be circumcised' after the MANNER OF MOSES, [YE CANNOT BE SAVED]." Can you even suggest that, that was found in the 10 Commandments of God???

But not only was this the Subject, but verse 5 also include 'other's than just Peter' as well, and take notice that it C-L-E-A-R-L-Y
states in this 'inspired' verse.. COMMAND them to keep 'THE LAW OF Moses'!

"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them [AND] to command them to keep the [Law of Moses]."

It goes on to say that the apostles and the elders came together to consider this matter! What matter was that? READ IT AGAIN until you get it right! (no offence meant!) But you, my friends seem to be just as dense as they? You remind me of Peter's 3 time Vision from God in Acts 10, with the reams & reams of Ph.D stuff penned! And it seems that most of these even come out with tainted understanding! Revelation 17:5.

Now: What were the Laws of Moses? Paul stated that:

'But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are [found sinners], is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For [if I build the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor].'
[This verse] tell's of the Universal Covenant 10 commandment law. For where 'NO LAW IS, THERE IS NO TRANSGRESSION. (Rom. 4:15) How could Paul say we could be 'found sinners' if there were [now], no law? (are you there???)

OK: Back in Deut. 31 were see Moses with a [LAW contained in a book]. Called the [Book of the Law!] We also see it placed [in the side of the Ark of God]! Not inside of the Ark of God, where His 10 Commandments Royal Universal Covenant was & IS LOCATED!! See Revelation 11:19. The Ark of His what??

It was the law of Moses that was nailed to the Cross! [ALL of the CEREMONIAL LAWS] that pointed to Christ's death on the Cross. These were all added because of sin. Gal. 3:19. What were these law?? God does not leave us ignorant if we will search as He commanded? Not hardly!! (2 Tim. 3:16-*Matt. 4:4-Matt. 28:20)

Paul also includes Col. 2:9-20 & Eph. 2:12-15 with these Laws of 'ordinances' and 'holy day' and 'the new moons, and the Sabbath day's'! These 'holy days' are the Sabbath of Moses law. [[NEVER ARE THEY THE 4TH COMMANDMENT OF THE TEN!!]]

Notice Deut. 30:10 for the [plural] of commandment's'! "If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep [his commandments] and His statues which are written [in THIS BOOK of the law, ..." (both the statues & these commandments are written in the BOOK OF THE LAW)

Again take note in Deut. 31:9 & verses 24-26. And note verse 26 closes with .. "Take [this book of the law] and [put it in the 'side of the Ark'] of the covenant of the Lord (notice these Words, & the Col. 2:14's Words of 'Against us') your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee".

And Paul's choice of Words.. Sabbath day's' plural, feast day's' plural, holy day's' plural? We even see in Acts 12:1-5 that Herod had James killed & Peter was locked up, and it was the Jews of old Israel that were keeping [this Feast Day] that you all keep today, you call it EASTER! (verse 3-4 ibid..) And you say that you are.. 'cursed with a curse'. Gal. 1:6-9!

You can understand Paul if you become the spiritual Jew of Rom. 2:28-38! Born Again.
Notice again the Law of Moses!! 2 Chron.. 8:13
"Even after a certain rate [every day], offering according to the [*commandments of Moses], on [the Sabbath's], and on [the new moon's'], and on the [solemn feast's'], (Easter, huh?) three times in the year, even the [feast of unleavened bread] and the [feast of week's'] and the feasts of [tabernacle's']."
These laws ALL pointed to the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin's of the world. When the Vail rent from top to bottom by an unseen hand, these laws of Moses were FINISHED, (Gal. 3:19) and the way was made into the Most Holy Place itself! Here is where the Ark of God was seen that had His 'TESTIMONY inside of His Ark! See Rev. 11:19.

NOW: Bottom line! Notice real good.
"And hallow my Sabbaths; and they shall be a SIGN between [Me and you], that ye [may know that I am the Lord your God]. Notwithstanding the children rebelled [against me: they walked not in my 'STATUES' ... WHEREFORE I GAVE THEM [ALSO] STATUES THAT WERE NOT GOOD, AND JUDGEMENTS WHEREBY THEY SHOULD *NOT LIVE.." Eze. 20:verse 20 & verse 25.
What did that say?? Read it AGAIN!

Just realize that 'just perhaps' you think that you understand Paul? :o

---John

 

[Solo]

(NOTE: This post is posted in bold and caps so that John can read okay since he always bolds and caps his posts. If this is a misunderstanding on my part, let me know and I will go back to posting in a normal manner.)

4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. 5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Colossians 2:4-17




IS THE SABBATH COMMANDMENT MENTIONED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, AND ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO KEEP THE SABBATH, OR WAS THE SABBATH PART OF THE LAW THAT WAS NAILED TO THE CROSS?

Give one single Bible verse where the weekly Sabbath commandment is quoted in the New Testament. (Almost all the 10 commandments are listed in the New Testament, find the 4th commandment quoted in the New Testament.)

Give one single Bible verse after the resurrection of Christ, that says Christians should keep the Sabbath day. (Heb 4:9 is not the weekly Sabbath, but the eternal Sabbath rest in heaven. Looking carefully at the text, you will see four rests in Hebrews 4: 1. Eternal rest in heaven. 2. The creation rest of God in Gen 2:2. 3. Canaan rest in the promised land for the Jews that Joshua gave: Deut. 12:9-10. 4. 7th day Sabbath rest. Hebrews 4 shows that the weekly Sabbath was merely one of three anti-types of our eternal Sabbath rest in heaven! It certainly cannot be a command to keep the weekly Sabbath!)

Give one single Bible verse where exclusively Christians came together on the Sabbath day as a church or prayer meeting after the resurrection of Christ. (There is an example of a church meeting with exclusively Christians were in the audience who came together for the purpose of partaking of the Lord’s supper and preaching on the first day of the week, Sunday, in Acts 20:7. Paul preaching to Jews on the Sabbath to convert them, is not an example of the church meeting on the Sabbath day, but is an example of Paul going into a Jewish worship service.)

Give one single Bible verse where the Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the ten commandments, is found in the book of Genesis. (Sabbatarian preachers always say that Adam and Abraham kept the Sabbath, yet offer no proof! Sabbatarians will find the common word for "rest" in Genesis, but never the special word for the weekly Sabbath!)

http://www.bible.ca/7-sabbath.htm


DID JESUS SIN WHEN HE BROKE THE SABBATH LAW? NO BUT THE TRADITIONS OF MEN TRIED TO FIND HIM GUILTY JUST LIKE SOME LIKE TO MAKE MEN GUILTY TODAY. THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, MAN WAS NOT MADE FOR THE SABBATH.

24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? 25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? 26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Mark 2:24-27

 

[John the Baptist]

Hi, John here:
A few posts back I was giving a warning. :wink: So for the sake of being misunderstood as well as perhaps of being set up? (notice the question mark forum!)

I will use my ban box Button for ignoring ones that I believe [might] just believe in censorship? (again forum, please note the question mark)

 

[Solo]

John,

I figure that the size of font that you use is to make a point, since your argument is lacking in the light of scripture. Keep on reading the Bible but perhaps it would be better to read more in the Spirit instead of the flesh.

Reading the Word in the Spirit instead of the flesh protects us from making big mistakes in understanding the truth. It is also necessary to obey Jesus' commandments as he made mention of in Matthew 22.

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:35-40


Here is some more research material that will be able to open your eyes if you have the ability to see. Ask God and he will deliver you if you have blindness to his Word. Let me know if you can't see this font, and I will increase it for you. http://www.bible.ca/7-2laws.htm

Some more scripture that shows that the Law of commandments contained in ordinances was abolished by Jesus. Hopefully your thoughts that all except the Seven Day Adventists are antiChrist, will not pervert your understanding of the Word.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Ephesians 2:11-22

Solo

 

[John the Baptist]

Hi, John here:
A few posts back I was giving a warning. :wink: So for the sake of being misunderstood as well as perhaps of being set up? (notice the question mark forum!)

I will use my ban box Button for ignoring ones that I believe [might] just believe in censorship? (again forum, please note the question mark)

____
Well now, it seems that I have just broken another rule! I am getting a post that tells me that I cannot add administrators or mod's to my ignore list. (just wondering aloud, are there any on here that are not mods?)

Ok then, lets see if the 'stop watching this 'thread' works for me?
---John

 

[SputnikBoy]

Matthew 22.35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:35-40

I don't see - and never have seen - that particular scripture as being problematic. Both parts require deeds. Do you not agree, Solo?

If one loves God with all their heart, with all their soul, and with all their mind ...they will be obedient to the first four commandments.

If one loves their neighbor as themself ...they will be obedient to commandments five through ten.

Neither of the commandments are beyond our capacity to keep or at least to strive for. If they HAD been impossible to keep (which is the common catch-cry of many on this board), then Jesus would not have asked this of the lawyer. Would he?

No offense, but sometimes you guys seem to be painting yourselves into corners of your own making.

 

[Solo]

Matthew 22.35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:35-40

I don't see - and never have seen - that particular scripture as being problematic. Both parts require deeds. Do you not agree, Solo?

If one loves God with all their heart, with all their soul, and with all their mind ...they will be obedient to the first four commandments.

If one loves their neighbor as themself ...they will be obedient to commandments five through ten.

Neither of the commandments are beyond our capacity to keep or at least to strive for. If they HAD been impossible to keep (which is the common catch-cry of many on this board), then Jesus would not have asked this of the lawyer. Would he?

No offense, but sometimes you guys seem to be painting yourselves into corners of your own making.

I am glad that you understand that the ten commandments hinge on the two that Jesus answered a tempter which law was the greatest. Now my question is what part of a believer obeys the commandments of God; the corrupt, mortal flesh or the believer's new creature which was born of God? If you answer that the corrupt, mortal flesh is able to keep the commandments of God, then Jesus did not need to give his life on the cross because the ability to live according to the righteousness of God's commandments was possible. If you say that the new creature that is born of God within every believer is able to keep the commandments of God, then we have no argument. When you understand that the flesh and the inward man are at odds within the believer, then you will understand the difference between walking in the flesh and walking in the spirit. Until then you will continue to live under the bondage of sin and under the Law.

I was freed from being painted into a corner of bondage at the moment that I was born of God upon believing the Word of God.

 

[SputnikBoy]

I am glad that you understand that the ten commandments hinge on the two that Jesus answered a tempter which law was the greatest.

But even Jesus was reiterating what was already written in Leviticus 19:18, so this was not a 'new' commandment. Deuteronomy 6:5-6 tells us: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. (6) These commandments I give you today are to be upon your hearts." Does that ring a bell? These words were given to the same people to whom the original commandments were given but the means to obedience was the same as it is for us today. When it comes to obedience, I don't see the difference between Old and New Testament teaching.

 

[Solo]

I am glad that you understand that the ten commandments hinge on the two that Jesus answered a tempter which law was the greatest.

But even Jesus was reiterating what was already written in Leviticus 19:18, so this was not a 'new' commandment. Deuteronomy 6:5-6 tells us: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. (6) These commandments I give you today are to be upon your hearts." Does that ring a bell? These words were given to the same people to whom the original commandments were given but the means to obedience was the same as it is for us today. When it comes to obedience, I don't see the difference between Old and New Testament teaching.

Sputnik,
You never answer the questions posed to you in the posts. Why is that?
I have shown that Jesus' commandments about loving God and loving ones neighbor was his answer to one that was tempting him with what the greatest commandment was. His answer was none of the ten, but one of more indepth understanding now that the Holy Spirit was going to be inside of all believers.

You never quote the entire post for you would be shown to have ignored the largest portion of debate. You can be honest with yourself and me and answer the questions that I posed in my entire post. I am sure you have an understanding of each, especially if you have been born again.

Here is my entire post once again. Please answer the entire post.

I am glad that you understand that the ten commandments hinge on the two that Jesus answered a tempter which law was the greatest. Now my question is what part of a believer obeys the commandments of God; the corrupt, mortal flesh or the believer's new creature which was born of God? If you answer that the corrupt, mortal flesh is able to keep the commandments of God, then Jesus did not need to give his life on the cross because the ability to live according to the righteousness of God's commandments was possible. If you say that the new creature that is born of God within every believer is able to keep the commandments of God, then we have no argument. When you understand that the flesh and the inward man are at odds within the believer, then you will understand the difference between walking in the flesh and walking in the spirit. Until then you will continue to live under the bondage of sin and under the Law.

I was freed from being painted into a corner of bondage at the moment that I was born of God upon believing the Word of God.

 

[SputnikBoy]

I am glad that you understand that the ten commandments hinge on the two that Jesus answered a tempter which law was the greatest.

But even Jesus was reiterating what was already written in Leviticus 19:18, so this was not a 'new' commandment. Deuteronomy 6:5-6 tells us: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. (6) These commandments I give you today are to be upon your hearts." Does that ring a bell? These words were given to the same people to whom the original commandments were given but the means to obedience was the same as it is for us today. When it comes to obedience, I don't see the difference between Old and New Testament teaching.

Sputnik,
You never answer the questions posed to you in the posts. Why is that?
I have shown that Jesus' commandments about loving God and loving ones neighbor was his answer to one that was tempting him with what the greatest commandment was. His answer was none of the ten, but one of more indepth understanding now that the Holy Spirit was going to be inside of all believers.

You never quote the entire post for you would be shown to have ignored the largest portion of debate. You can be honest with yourself and me and answer the questions that I posed in my entire post. I am sure you have an understanding of each, especially if you have been born again.

Here is my entire post once again. Please answer the entire post.

I am glad that you understand that the ten commandments hinge on the two that Jesus answered a tempter which law was the greatest. Now my question is what part of a believer obeys the commandments of God; the corrupt, mortal flesh or the believer's new creature which was born of God? If you answer that the corrupt, mortal flesh is able to keep the commandments of God, then Jesus did not need to give his life on the cross because the ability to live according to the righteousness of God's commandments was possible. If you say that the new creature that is born of God within every believer is able to keep the commandments of God, then we have no argument. When you understand that the flesh and the inward man are at odds within the believer, then you will understand the difference between walking in the flesh and walking in the spirit. Until then you will continue to live under the bondage of sin and under the Law.

Okay, Solo.  I think I know the track where you're headed.  That's why I ignored that part of your post in the first place.  However, one's having committed him/herself to Jesus Christ will result in a ‘born again’ experience for that individual.  It will probably be a progressive experience for him or her over a (perhaps) lengthy period of time.

I am always skeptical of those who taunt another Christian with “do you or do you not have an infilling of the Holy Spirit?† Many of these people (I don’t know about you, Solo) take being ‘Spirit-filled’ to such extremes that it can and does lead to some very questionable areas, i.e. speaking in ‘tongues’, slaying in the Spirit, barking like dogs, rolling on the floor in uncontrollable giggling fits (the Toronto Blessing), making sounds like barnyard animals, etc. etc.  All of those things are a mockery to God.

I really hadn’t wanted to get into this particular area of the charismatic version of the Holy Spirit, hence my reluctance in responding to that part of your question and substituting instead an OLD LAW that Jesus was simply reiterating to the lawyer.  But, you insisted.

So called ‘Spirit-filled’ Christians bother me – particularly those who flaunt their own perceived 'infilling' as a means to exclude other Christians they may deem as NOT being ‘Spirit-filled’.  You can take this however you like, Solo, but I’ve given a number of examples above for not wanting to participate in the ‘are you Spirit-filled?’ game.  I'm just not interested.  The only ‘signs’ that I see for one’s being ‘filled with the Holy Spirit’ are those that are demonstrated through their walking the talk.   Obedience to God’s commands is the perfect ‘sign’ that one is Spirit-filled.  NO other sign is necessary and this is the one that will also set the example to non-Christians.

I was freed from being painted into a corner of bondage at the moment that I was born of God upon believing the Word of God.

As long as some believe that keeping the Sabbath is an act of obedience to God, others will see this as an indication that one is therefore not Spirit-filled.  Strange logic indeed!!  While I obviously can't speak for all, many Sabbatarian Christians are indeed ‘Spirit-filled’, Solo, even though they don’t display the Holy Spirit as some of you others would have them do.  They also don’t speak in ‘tongues’ or take other charismatic acts of foolishness to the ‘nth degree’.  The practice of demonizing others for keeping the commandments of God - or implying that they lack ‘the Holy Spirit’ and thereby stand in judgment of them - speaks more about the accusers' brand of Christianity than it does for those who they accuse.

 

[Solo]

I have not even hinted at "Spirit-filled" as you have indicated. I speak from a scriptural base that speaks of walking in the spirit or walking in the flesh. Perhaps you are not aware of this scriptural understanding of truth, but all believers have a choice to make. They can either walk in the Spirit or they can walk in the flesh. I am not a Charismatic Christian who believes that one must exhibit the filling of the Holy Spirit by the speaking in tongues. I don't speak in tongues, nor do I believe that one is required to speak in tongues in order to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

I do believe that in order to be a believer one must be born of the Spirit of God at the point of hearing the Word of God. That is what is commonly called being born again. Jesus said that unless one is born of water and born of Spirit he/she cannot enter the kingdom. If you are born of God, born from above, born again, then you are a new creature according to the Bible. If you are born again, you continue with a corrupt, mortal flesh until the day of redemption which you are sealed until by the Holy Spirit. At a believers born again, born of God, born of the Spirit experience, the Holy Spirit comes to live within each believer.

At that point, every believer can either walk in the Spirit or walk in the flesh. That is what Paul is speaking of in Romans. He notices that a war is being fought within his members between the sinful flesh and the born again inward man. Unbelievers do not have the born again inward man. The born again inward man is the New creature that the Bible speaks of.

This is the basis for my question; what part of a believer obeys the commandments of God; the corrupt, mortal flesh or the believer's new creature which was born of God? If you answer that the corrupt, mortal flesh is able to keep the commandments of God, then Jesus did not need to give his life on the cross because the ability to live according to the righteousness of God's commandments was possible. If you say that the new creature that is born of God within every believer is able to keep the commandments of God, then we have no argument.

Following are the scriptures that are the basis for this consensus:

All believers are born of the Spirit. Unless one is born of water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:3-8

Each believer is born of the Spirit of God, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible seed by the word of God which lives and abides for ever. This is the new creature that a believer has which will continue without sin since the new creature is born of God.

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Peter 1:19-23

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:16-21

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Galatians 6:15

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Colossians 3:8-11

Paul talks about believers should walk in the Spirit so that they shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. He speaks of the flesh and the Spirit being contrary one to the other so that a believer cannot do the things that he ought, but if one walks in the Spirit he is not at that point under the law. What does this mean. Read Romans 7 and 8.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Galatians 5:16-18

The one who is born of God does not sin. The new creature is that which is born of God. Each believer that has been born again, born of the Spirit is born of God. When a believer walks in the flesh, he fulfills the lust of the flesh, when a believer walks in the Spirit he obeys the commandments of God. The Law of God convicts the flesh while the commandments of God for a believer is that which the Spirit of God has written on each believers heart.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:1-5

Keep in mind that he that is born of God sins not. The new man, the new creature that was born of the Spirit of God does not sin. The corrupt, mortal flesh is sinful flesh and is sold out to sin; therefore, walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh.

18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 John 5:18-21

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow F26 not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:14-25

 

[Jay T]

Just realize that 'just perhaps' you think that you understand Paul? :o

Of all the Bible writers...only Paul's...did God issue a warning about !
2 Peter 3:15......even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction".
The point to remember about this is....that all the letters Paul wrote to the (Ephesians, Thessalonians, Romans, Corinthians, ect), were to people who knew....what the Old Testatment said, as that was all the wcriptures they had.
Therefore they had the backround to understand what Paul was talking about.

Today's Christians lack Bible knowledge of the Old Testament, and therefore place thieir own ideas as to what Paul means ...instead of what that Bible is really saying.

 

[Jay T]

If I had a dollar for every time I've posted this I'd be a rich man. Heidi, you've misinterpreted that scripture. Again, and again, and again, TODAY means that THIS VERY DAY is the day on which to accept the gift of Salvation! It has NOTHING to do with the abolition of the weekly Sabbath!!!

Try to be patient with these people.
It must be remembered that satan controls the Christian world (2 Corinthians 11:13-15....Revelation 12:9).

satan hates the commandments of God, and is at WAR.....with the people who keep them, (Revelation 12:17).

Only those who are truly converted and love Jesus Christ, keep the 7th day sabbath (Ezekiel 20/20).

 

[Solo]

If I had a dollar for every time I've posted this I'd be a rich man. Heidi, you've misinterpreted that scripture. Again, and again, and again, TODAY means that THIS VERY DAY is the day on which to accept the gift of Salvation! It has NOTHING to do with the abolition of the weekly Sabbath!!!

Try to be patient with these people.
It must be remembered that satan controls the Christian world (2 Corinthians 11:13-15....Revelation 12:9).

satan hates the commandments of God, and is at WAR.....with the people who keep them, (Revelation 12:17).

Only those who are truly converted and love Jesus Christ, keep the 7th day sabbath (Ezekiel 20/20).

Jay T,
Are there any truly converted Christians that love Jesus Christ that do not keep the sabbath?

Also I am curious about what you mean by satan controlling the Christian world? Do you mean that satan controls the truly converted Christian world or something else with hidden meaning?

 

[Jay T]

Jay T,
Are there any truly converted Christians that love Jesus Christ that do not keep the sabbath?

YES !
The people who have not heard about the sabbath truth, as yet.

When the truth is brought to their attention, they will keep it, as they will see the importance, by which Jesus applies to it.

Also I am curious about what you mean by satan controlling the Christian world? Do you mean that satan controls the truly converted Christian world or something else with hidden meaning?

To be truly converted, means, to know the Law of God in its completeness: Psalms 19:7 "The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple".
As to satan....the Bible tells us: "satan, which deceives the 'whole' world', (Revelation 12:9)
One must understand the Great Controversy, between Christ and satan.

The Bible calls satan: 'the god of this world', (2 Corinthians 4:4).

As the 'god of this world'....satan has set up his own counterfiet religion, in opposition to the Creator's.

God has a day of worship.....the 7th day Sabbath.

satan has set up Sunday, as his day of worship, as Bible prophecy said he would (Daniel 7:25....'think to change times and laws')

 

[Solo]

Jay T,
Are there any truly converted Christians that love Jesus Christ that do not keep the sabbath?

YES !
The people who have not heard about the sabbath truth, as yet.

When the truth is brought to their attention, they will keep it, as they will see the importance, by which Jesus applies to it.

Also I am curious about what you mean by satan controlling the Christian world? Do you mean that satan controls the truly converted Christian world or something else with hidden meaning?

To be truly converted, means, to know the Law of God in its completeness: Psalms 19:7 "The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple".
As to satan....the Bible tells us: "satan, which deceives the 'whole' world', (Revelation 12:9)
One must understand the Great Controversy, between Christ and satan.

The Bible calls satan: 'the god of this world', (2 Corinthians 4:4).

As the 'god of this world'....satan has set up his own counterfiet religion, in opposition to the Creator's.

God has a day of worship.....the 7th day Sabbath.

satan has set up Sunday, as his day of worship, as Bible prophecy said he would (Daniel 7:25....'think to change times and laws')

Which is more important; keeping one day a week holy unto God in the rest promised us who are in Christ Jesus, or keeping seven days a week unto God in the rest promised us who are in Christ Jesus?

When does salvation take place? How do you know that you are saved?