Bible Study The Lord's Day....the 7th Day Sabbath

[Solo]

I see the Holy Spirit as the final authority in all things including the interpretation of scripture. If God knew that I would need to understand the various cultures and times, then he would have addressed that within his Word

A poor excuse and an ignorant one, I'm afraid. One cannot read a section of scripture, expecting to get something out of it and then ignore that very context that provides the meaning they came for. I suppose that books with names such as Colossians, Ephesians, Galatians and Phillipians are merely names and not letters reflecting the issues the church faced in these geographical areas. Areas such as the very pagan religion they came out of.

Nope. Instead we take a cursory glance at ambiguous passages and make it fit what we are comfortable with. And then (as an added bonus) we get to say and believe that we are right.

To ignore the context is to be content to impose and accept preconceived ideas on what the text is not saying.I sure wouldn't want you to interpret Revelation for me.

When you properly read the whole of Colossians 2 and read the WHOLE context, you will find that the issues put forth are very important to the verses in question. Nevermind that the word 'law' is not even found in the chapter, never mind that Paul preaches against ascetism, elemental worship, debasement of the body, forgiveness of sins and pagan rulers judging.

Nope. All these things are merely added in. The REAL issue is that the Colossians don't have to observe the seventh day Sabbath. :roll:

So explain how you keep the Sabbath.

Thank God that you are not the final authority, for you would call someone's understanding a poor excuse and ignorant. You come across as a hypocrite. I sure hope that you are not.

Read what Jesus taught his disciples about those things of the Law that were written, and the meaning of those things since His fulfillment of the Law.


11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Matthew 5:11-12


Keep reviling me and persecuting me and saying all manner of evil against me falsely; for I rejoice and am exceeding glad because my reward in heaven is great. Many persecuted the prophets before me in much the same manner.


17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17-20

Read about the scribes and Pharisees and their opinion of Jesus breaking the Sabbath. Keeping the Sabbath was not according to the scribes and Pharisees opinions, but of the commandment of God. You have done a marvelous job of securing an understanding that backs up your position that is very similar to that of the scribes and Pharisees, but you are in error just as they were. The traditions of your belief system have overridden the commandment of Jesus Christ.


21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:21-22

The commandment, Thou shalt not kill (murder), has extra meaning behind it since the new covenant Jesus Christ whereby the indwelling of the Spirit of God will enable those that have the Law written on their hearts to operate as Jesus did, having the mind of Christ. Now it is breaking the commandment if one is angry with his brother without a cause.


27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Matthew 5:27-28

The commandment that Thou shalt not commit adultery has been strengthened to mean that if one looks on a woman to lust after her, commits adultery; therefore the commandment is strenthened as it is fulfilled by Jesus Christ.


31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Matthew 5:31-32

It is also breaking the commandment of Thou shalt not commit adultery when one divorces his wife, and whoever marries one that is divorced commits adultery as well. Those that have not the Holy Spirit indwelling them will have a difficult time keeping this commandment when tempted.


33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. Matthew 5:33-37

More strength is give to the command to perform oaths to the Lord by instead not swearing at all, neither by heaven nor by the earth, neither by Jerusalem, nor by ones own head, but instead let ones yes be yes and no be no. Once again, more strength is given to the command of the past.

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Matthew 5:38-42

The old command of an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth has been changed to resist not evil but instead to turn ones cheek. And if any sue at the law and take ones coat, give him your cloke also. If someone asks you to go one mile, go two instead.


43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:43-48

More strength is given to that which was written about You should love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but since the post law period where the Law is written on the hearts of the believers, one should love ones neighbor and love ones enemy.


If Jesus would have commented on every commandment and every command or law of the Old Testament, he would have strengthened them from his fulfillment of the Law. If he would have commented on the Sabbath day I believe that he would have increased the demand of the commandment and strengthened it. I believe that he would say, "You have heard that it was said of old time, remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, but I say that every day should be kept holy including the Sabbath, and that in those seven days of the week you should be about the work of the kingdom. All that you do should be done as unto the Lord. You should pray unceasingly, you should be ready to preach the gospel, help the widows, help the needy, care for the sick, feed the hungry, and love the Lord thy God with all of your heart, mind and soul, with all of your strength.

You see, I don't believe that God wants us to just keep one day holy, I believe that he wants us to keep every day holy because we are now able to with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I don't believe that God wants us to work about our business which is wood, hay, and stubble, but instead to be about the work of the kingdom. Many think that they are obeying the commandments as the Israelites were given the law by observing the commandments as they were given to a chosen group of people who did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and required priests to atone for their sins by offering sacrifices. The days have come when the only worth sacrifice has been paid and he is the fulfillment of the law which is now spiritual and not physical.

 

[Solo]

I see the Holy Spirit as the final authority in all things including the interpretation of scripture.

Sputnik: But, surely the Holy Spirit doesn't make people into robots where they are incapable of thinking for themselves. And, if one has the HS working in their lives, wouldn't He then be revealing the relevance of Sabbath-keeping to present-day Christians? Why is it that the HS is active within you but not in someone who is obedient to the Sabbath command? I'm sure you don't intend this, but the implication of your message seems to come across as being that the only HS-filled Christians are those who DON'T keep the Sabbath.

Solo: If God knew that I would need to understand the various cultures and times, then he would have addressed that within his Word.

Sputnik: The only reason that some have found it necessary to delve into the various cultures and times is BECAUSE of what mainstream Christianity has done with the actual Word of God. Research has been responsible for a clearer understanding of the intent of the Bible writers (specifically the writings of Paul) and the clarification of apparent inconsistencies and discrepencies within the scriptures that have led to some 'questionable' present-day Christian beliefs. Research involving history, culture, and latter-day church practices has uncovered any number of erroneous doctrines of the modern Church.

Solo: Some try to incorporate man's wisdom within the Word of God and mess the whole thing up.

Sputnik: Well, you said it! Look no further than the RCC and note how they have STRONGLY influenced the mainstream Evangelical Church. They took the 7th-day Sabbath and made it into a nonevent. In it's place they substituted their own holy day because they felt they had the authority to do so. That fact alone would cause me to question Sunday worship. Since you question 'man's wisdom within the Word of God that messes the whole thing up', how come you so readily accept (even if only by virtue of passing it off as being 'irrelevant) this counterfeit 'Sabbath' of the RCC?

Solo: I see that God wants his elect to keep every day holy as unto God, and to cease from the works of man replacing them by the works of the Father, just as Jesus taught in the gospels. See the scriptures of the gospel record that I posted.

Sputnik: That Jesus kept the SPIRIT of the Sabbath should not even be under dispute. There is nothing that mainstream Christians can do to alter the fact that Jesus customarily obeyed the 4th-commandment. Where in the scriptures does it say that we should not follow that example? Was Jesus a legalist? If not, based on what you have to say about present-day practicing Sabbatarians ...why wasn't He?

Solo: Those legalist Pharisees were blind to the truth of God, and considered Jesus as breaking the Sabbath. Jesus did nothing of the sort.

Sputnik: So, we ARE in agreement that Jesus 'kept' the Sabbath ...? And, what the legalistic Pharisees did with the Sabbath has been addressed a number of times already, Solo. One CAN be obedient to the Sabbath-command and not be a legalist.

Solo: Jesus was about the kingdom business just the same as we are to be seven days a week.

Sputnik: No one, to my knowledge, is arguing against the fact that Christians should not be about 'the kingdom business' seven days a week. Of course we should. The truth of the matter, however, is that ONE 24-hour period (Saturday to us) was set aside from the other six days for the specific purpose of ceasing from one's work and devoting that time to God. Mainstream Christians have no argument with this since they participate in this practice every Sunday. Many of them REALLY believe that they're keeping the 4th-commandment, thanks to the RCC. Don't you at least find this fact somewhat worthy of recognition and acknowledgment, Solo?

So what days of the week can we be unholy, and what days of the week can we do our own work apart from the work of the kingdom?

 

[SputnikBoy]

So what days of the week can we be unholy, and what days of the week can we do our own work apart from the work of the kingdom?

Sputnik: Well, whatever behavior one exhibits on the Sabbath should be the same as they would exhibit on any other day. I'm not REALLY sure what you're getting at, Solo, since an auto mechanic, for instance, would be required to work at least five days within his trade to earn a living. So, he can't feasibly devote that period of time to God in a way that he can on the ONE day that God asked him to.

God, in His wisdom, knew that humans would need a break at the end of the weekly working cycle. This was also an opportune time for one to devote that 24-hour period to Him. Having said that, there is no reason why the mechanic can't portray Christianity to others he may encounter throughout the week. This may even be in the form of not cussing when he drops the wrench in the middle of a tricky operation. :wink:

 

[Solo]

So what days of the week can we be unholy, and what days of the week can we do our own work apart from the work of the kingdom?

Sputnik: Well, whatever behavior one exhibits on the Sabbath should be the same as they would exhibit on any other day. I'm not REALLY sure what you're getting at, Solo, since an auto mechanic, for instance, would be required to work at least five days within his trade to earn a living. So, he can't feasibly devote that period of time to God in a way that he can on the ONE day that God asked him to.

God, in His wisdom, knew that humans would need a break at the end of the weekly working cycle. This was also an opportune time for one to devote that 24-hour period to Him. Having said that, there is no reason why the mechanic can't portray Christianity to others he may encounter throughout the week. This may even be in the form of not cussing when he drops the wrench in the middle of a tricky operation. :wink:

Let me answer the question that I posed to you.

So what days of the week can we be unholy, and what days of the week can we do our own work apart from the work of the kingdom?

All days should be kept holy as unto God, not just the seventh day of week, and all of our work should be as unto God whether we are mechanics walking in the spirit supporting our family, or preachers teaching the Word of God. Every work that we do should be a work of the kingdom which will be as gold and precious stones, and not a work of our own which will be burnt up as wood, hay, and stubble.

The Sabbath day of the Law was given to a people that could only keep one day out of a week holy unto God because they did not have the holy Spirit. We can now keep all days holy to God as we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Read the scriptures that Jesus spoke of that I posted in a previous post. The teachers of the Law had the Sabbath wrong and they declared Jesus as breaking the Sabbath. They did not understand the spiritual side of the Law, which is what Jesus fulfilled.

 

[Jay T]

So let's all forget what Jesus has said and done about the matter of the Ten Commandments. Paul is obviously the oracle on this subject. Higher even than Jesus.

Yet, in all the Bible God placed a warning on Paul's writings (2 Peter 3:15,16).....because, the vast majority of the Christian world places Paul above, Jesus Christ (our Lord and Savior ?)

Sorry, but that is the way it seems to me. People are taking what Paul is saying over the words and deeds of Jesus and that is just wrong.

As most people should realize, there are no contradictions in the Bible (supposedly).
But, since people fail... to study the Old Testament...it is easy to misunderstand what Paul is talking about...which will lead to their own destruction.

Please have a look at Jesus' life. It is His life which is the one we are supposed to model our own on, not Pauls (or our interpretation of Paul's).

.

The Bible tells us that Jesus Christ, is our example....not Paul.

 

[guibox]

So what days of the week can we be unholy, and what days of the week can we do our own work apart from the work of the kingdom?

It's not about doing 'holy' and 'unholy' works. It's about physically resting and following not only God's command, but His divine EXAMPLE. It is about obedience. The Sabbath is about forgetting our earthly cares and resting in Him so that He can work in us more fully.

All days should be kept holy as unto God, not just the seventh day of week, and all of our work should be as unto God whether we are mechanics walking in the spirit supporting our family, or preachers teaching the Word of God.

And who are you to determine such a thing? This attitude very easily could have been adopted in the OT and the NT. It was not because the issue wasn't about serving God only on the seventh day. It was about God setting this example when the earth was created. It was about God setting aside HIS day and BLESSING it and SANCTIFYING it. All this was done OUTSIDE of man's contribution.

It is HIS day given to mankind since the foundation of the world.

It is not about whether WE can do this or do that or whether we humans can determine what should and shouldn't be done. That is blasphemy and EXACTLY what the Pharisees did to undermine the Sabbath in the first place!

The Sabbath day of the Law was given to a people that could only keep one day out of a week holy unto God because they did not have the holy Spirit. We can now keep all days holy to God as we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Oh my. You are really lowering the importance of God's creative work to say that the 'spirit' determines whether the Sabbath was important or not. What a strange and ludicrous rationalization!

The Sabbath is a memorial of who God is and Who's we are! It shows that He is not only our Creator but our Redeemer as well. The Sabbath was blessed and set apart and made holy by GOD, not man. To simply box and ship it under the guise of 'spirit or no spirit' is mind boggling to say the least.

 

[Solo]

So what days of the week can we be unholy, and what days of the week can we do our own work apart from the work of the kingdom?

It's not about doing 'holy' and 'unholy' works. It's about physically resting and following not only God's command, but His divine EXAMPLE. It is about obedience. The Sabbath is about forgetting our earthly cares and resting in Him so that He can work in us more fully.

All days should be kept holy as unto God, not just the seventh day of week, and all of our work should be as unto God whether we are mechanics walking in the spirit supporting our family, or preachers teaching the Word of God.

And who are you to determine such a thing? This attitude very easily could have been adopted in the OT and the NT. It was not because the issue wasn't about serving God only on the seventh day. It was about God setting this example when the earth was created. It was about God setting aside HIS day and BLESSING it and SANCTIFYING it. All this was done OUTSIDE of man's contribution.

It is HIS day given to mankind since the foundation of the world.

It is not about whether WE can do this or do that or whether we humans can determine what should and shouldn't be done. That is blasphemy and EXACTLY what the Pharisees did to undermine the Sabbath in the first place!

The Sabbath day of the Law was given to a people that could only keep one day out of a week holy unto God because they did not have the holy Spirit. We can now keep all days holy to God as we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Oh my. You are really lowering the importance of God's creative work to say that the 'spirit' determines whether the Sabbath was important or not. What a strange and ludicrous rationalization!

The Sabbath is a memorial of who God is and Who's we are! It shows that He is not only our Creator but our Redeemer as well. The Sabbath was blessed and set apart and made holy by GOD, not man. To simply box and ship it under the guise of 'spirit or no spirit' is mind boggling to say the least.

It is obvious that you are having difficulty in assessing what the Sabbath is and for what reason it was made important. It was to describe how man should rest, and it was to point out the one Thousand year rest as Jesus reigns on earth. Believers are to rest from their own works totally seven days per week as they serve the Lord during this time, and instead be about the Kingdom business as Jesus was seven days a week. Jesus never rested from the Kingdom business, and he did not participate in man's legalistic ways. Since you are such an authority on the Sabbath, perhaps you could teach what it is that Believers are to do on the Sabbath, the seventh day.

Do not be confused about the Holy Spirit's work within a Believer of which the Jews had not. The comforter came after Jesus ascended into heaven. The Holy Spirit now indwells every believer teaching each believer the things of God. The Sabbath day was a picture of God's Holiness and how each of us are to live every day, resting from our works and living in God's works.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Do not be confused about the Holy Spirit's work within a Believer of which the Jews had not. The comforter came after Jesus ascended into heaven. The Holy Spirit now indwells every believer teaching each believer the things of God. The Sabbath day was a picture of God's Holiness and how each of us are to live every day, resting from our works and living in God's works.

So, let me see ...as long as one believes that keeping the Sabbath is a mark of obedience to God, then they are not a TRUE believer? And, the reason is that they haven't received an indwelling of the Holy Spirit ...right? Jesus kept the Sabbath, why would the Holy Spirit not encourage those so 'indwelt' to do the same?

 

[Solo]

Do not be confused about the Holy Spirit's work within a Believer of which the Jews had not. The comforter came after Jesus ascended into heaven. The Holy Spirit now indwells every believer teaching each believer the things of God. The Sabbath day was a picture of God's Holiness and how each of us are to live every day, resting from our works and living in God's works.

So, let me see ...as long as one believes that keeping the Sabbath is a mark of obedience to God, then they are not a TRUE believer? And, the reason is that they haven't received an indwelling of the Holy Spirit ...right? Jesus kept the Sabbath, why would the Holy Spirit not encourage those so 'indwelt' to do the same?

No, that is not what I said. It is possible that a believer could be making an error of judgment just as Peter did as recorded in Galatians 2 when Paul had to set him straight as Peter was falling into the scope of legalizing faith in Jesus Christ. However, If a person does not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit then they are not a believer.

All days should be kept as holy unto God. All days should be lived doing the works of God's Kingdom, not man's works. Man's works will burn up as wood, hay, and stubble. While one is at work as a mechanic, he should be walking in the Spirit doing the works of God's kingdom, not the works of man. Tell me once again how the Sabbath should be kept from your perspective.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Tell me once again how the Sabbath should be kept from your perspective.

I don't know that there is any specific way the Sabbath SHOULD be kept. It's an individual thing and there are no book of rules, contrary to the beliefs of some.

The Sabbath begins at sunset Friday and ends sunset Saturday. During this period of time it's recommended that the time be spent in Jesus-related activities. This includes Sabbath School and a church meeting on Saturday morning. It isn't a time for long faces and sitting around afraid to move. On the contrary, it's the day of the week when Christians can make things happen. Activities that involve Christ-centered programs, hospital and nursing home visitations, fellowship with others who share similar beliefs are a big part of 'keeping the Sabbath'. If the Sabbath isn't 'a delight' then one is missing a great opportunity to make it so.

I anticipate, Solo, that you'll remark as to why such activities can't be performed on ALL seven days of the week. Well, realistically it can't be done by most people, not to mention the fact that God said to work six days and rest (from worldly pursuits) on the seventh.

 

[Solo]

Tell me once again how the Sabbath should be kept from your perspective.

I don't know that there is any specific way the Sabbath SHOULD be kept. It's an individual thing and there are no book of rules, contrary to the beliefs of some.

The Sabbath begins at sunset Friday and ends sunset Saturday. During this period of time it's recommended that the time be spent in Jesus-related activities. This includes Sabbath School and a church meeting on Saturday morning. It isn't a time for long faces and sitting around afraid to move. On the contrary, it's the day of the week when Christians can make things happen. Activities that involve Christ-centered programs, hospital and nursing home visitations, fellowship with others who share similar beliefs are a big part of 'keeping the Sabbath'. If the Sabbath isn't 'a delight' then one is missing a great opportunity to make it so.

I anticipate, Solo, that you'll remark as to why such activities can't be performed on ALL seven days of the week. Well, realistically it can't be done by most people, not to mention the fact that God said to work six days and rest (from worldly pursuits) on the seventh.

So then the keeping of the Sabbath today is more as to one's own definition and not anything specific required of the Law?

 

[John the Baptist]

Wow! Some here never run out 'desire'? Genesis 4:7 They sound like a broken record with this promising of 'liberty stuff'!

Peter ran into this it seems, as well as God telling us that there is nothing new! The Eccles. verses.
Take note of this inspiration posted on another site:

John here with details & some added highlights.

"Having eyes full of adultery, and [cannot] cease from sin; [beguiling unstable souls]: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children (only children? :roll

Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam, who loved the wages of unrightousness;
But were rebuked for his iniquity; (With no law?? 1 John 3:4) the dumb donkey (sorry! P.T. ) speaking with a man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet.

These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with the tempest; to whom the midst of darkness is reserved for ever. Nah. 1:9.

For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, (see Titus 3:9-11)
they allure through the lusts of the flesh, though wantaness, [those that were clean] escaped from them who live in error.

[While they promise them liberty], (Exactly what we are hearing over & over again today! ) they themselves [are the servants of corruption]: for [whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage]. (James 1:15 & 1 John 5:16-17)

For if after they [have escaped] (???) the pollutions of this world [through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are [again entangles therein, and overcome,] (Psalms 19:13) the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. (Luke 12:47-48)

For it had been better for them [not to have known the way of rightousness], than to [turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them]. (Hebrews 13:20 & Exodus 32:15-16!! Luke 12:47-18)

But [it happened] unto them [according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again;] and the sow that [was washed to her wallowing in the mire."] 2 Peter 2:14-22

 

[Solo]

Some misunderstand the liberty with which believers have been blessed when God's salvation takes place within a believer. Most of the time, error comes into play when the believer is led astray while walking in the flesh. I would suggest that all who believe that they are in the right as they ridicule their brothers in Christ, that they step back and examine their own walk first. Some preach a salvation that is solely dependent upon man and his abilities to keep the law of God. If that was possible, then Jesus would not have died on the cross for the salvation of those BORN AGAIN. How many times can a person be born again? How many times can a person be physically born? The answer to both questions is ONCE. If salvation is dependent upon mankind's ability to walk sin free, then no one will be saved. All of those that preach that one can lose their salvation, continue to sin, and will until Jesus returns or they die. The flesh is corrupt and mortal, and until we are changed in a twinkling of an eye whereby the mortal puts on immortality, and the corrupt puts on incorruption, all believers have a war within their members. They serve God with their mind, and they serve sin with their flesh.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:14-25


Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Romans 8:21

Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? 1 Corinthians 10:29

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Corinthians 3:17

And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: Galatians 2:4

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1

But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. James 1:25

 

[John the Baptist]

Sounds like some ones are kicking against the pricks, huh? Acts 9:4-5. Saul made it, others can too, huh? And sure, you are right, NO ONE can be Born Again without the Holy Ghost that is given on a condition of OBEDIENCE! Acts 5:32 That is what you said, right? :wink:

---John

 

[SputnikBoy]

All of those that preach that one can lose their salvation, continue to sin, and will until Jesus returns or they die. The flesh is corrupt and mortal, and until we are changed in a twinkling of an eye whereby the mortal puts on immortality, and the corrupt puts on incorruption, all believers have a war within their members. They serve God with their mind, and they serve sin with their flesh.

I'm not sure that anyone here has condemned those who don't keep the 7th-day Sabbath. That's God's job anyway, not ours. And, I don't know about you, Solo, but I continue to sin and no doubt will until I die or Jesus returns. Perhaps I sin less these days than I used to but I AM still human.

I don't see the Sabbath issue in the way that you do, Solo, and we're evidently not tuned in to each other's thoughts on this topic. That doesn't necessarily make either one of us 'bad' people. You see it as 'legalism' whereas I see it as a simple case of 'obedience'. And, surely the Spirit-filled mind will dictate a positive response (action) from the body without this being seen as 'working one's way to heaven'. I would think that most Sabbatarians are well aware that one cannot work their way to heaven. This is not the reason why they might choose to make sundown Friday until sundown Saturday a 24-hour period totally committed to God. Even if you don't agree with 'Sabbath-keeping', Solo, surely one's choosing to do so can't be wrong ...?

 

[Solo]

Sounds like some ones are kicking against the pricks, huh? Acts 9:4-5. Saul made it, others can too, huh? And sure, you are right, NO ONE can be Born Again without the Holy Ghost that is given on a condition of OBEDIENCE! Acts 5:32 That is what you said, right? :wink:

---John

If obedience is repentence and belief in Jesus Christ as Lord, then you are correct; however, if you mean that salvation is given on condition of man's works then you are deceived.

Sometimes it is difficult to get past the pricks.

 

[Jay T]

If obedience is repentence and belief in Jesus Christ as Lord, then you are correct; however, if you mean that salvation is given on condition of man's works then you are deceived.

If Romans 10:4 is properly understood.....
Romans 10:4 "For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth". then a person then, understands that it is Jesus Christ, and the faith in Him...that allows a person to keep all 10 commandments as found in Exodus 20:3-17.


The person who ....does not...keep all the commandmetns of God ...does not know Jesus Christ.....
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

This is especially true of the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath.

 

[Solo]

If obedience is repentence and belief in Jesus Christ as Lord, then you are correct; however, if you mean that salvation is given on condition of man's works then you are deceived.

If Romans 10:4 is properly understood.....
Romans 10:4 "For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth". then a person then, understands that it is Jesus Christ, and the faith in Him...that allows a person to keep all 10 commandments as found in Exodus 20:3-17.


The person who ....does not...keep all the commandmetns of God ...does not know Jesus Christ.....
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

This is especially true of the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath.

Is the old nature able to keep the ten commandments? Is the flesh able to keep the ten commandments? Do believers sin and break the ten commandments? Did Paul sin? What part of the believer does not sin?

 

[Jay T]

Is the old nature able to keep the ten commandments? Is the flesh able to keep the ten commandments? Do believers sin and break the ten commandments? Did Paul sin?

What part of the believer does not sin?

The part that believes in Jesus Christ.

When Jesus said: 'go and sin no more' (John 5:14 & 8:11)...was He telling the truth ?

 

[Solo]

Is the old nature able to keep the ten commandments? Is the flesh able to keep the ten commandments? Do believers sin and break the ten commandments? Did Paul sin?

What part of the believer does not sin?

The part that believes in Jesus Christ.

When Jesus said: 'go and sin no more' (John 5:14 & 8:11)...was He telling the truth ?

Please answer all of the questions.
Thanks.

What does the following scripture mean?

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10

Are you able to walk without sin in your life since being born again?