Bible Study The Lord's Day....the 7th Day Sabbath

[John the Baptist]

Is the old nature able to keep the ten commandments? Is the flesh able to keep the ten commandments? Do believers sin and break the ten commandments? Did Paul sin?

What part of the believer does not sin?

The part that believes in Jesus Christ.

When Jesus said: 'go and sin no more' (John 5:14 & 8:11)...was He telling the truth ?

Please answer all of the questions.
Thanks.

What does the following scripture mean?

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10

Are you able to walk without sin in your life since being born again?

******
John here:
Just curious, are you on Christ's side or not? (Born Again?) Does not the Born Again mind control the 'carnal' body'??? You are saying that sin is more powerful than Christ's Grace????

He says that I can do all things through Christ that strengtheneth me! Philippians 4:13 He says that .. My GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR THEE! 2 Corinthians 12:9 And here comes your message that is saying that Christ's Grace is not SUFFICENT FOR THEE?????? (that is a question!)

Now: Just what sin unto DEATH are you guilty of? 1 John 5:16-17 & James 1:15?? Notice David in Psalms 19:7. He talks of the LAW OF THE LORD IS PERFECT, CONVERTING THE SOUL! (all but His Sabbath day, huh?)

and in verse 11-12 he states, "Moreover by them is thy servant warned. .. Who can understand his errors? (errors? sins? sin not unto death!)

Now notice the next verse in the K.J.: Psalms 19:13
"Keep back thy servant [also from] *presumptuous sins*;[/u] let them not [have dominion over me;] (see Psalms 66:18, James 1:15, 1 John 5:16-17 again) [color=red[b]][AND THEN WILL I BE INNOCENT FROM THE GREAT TRANSGRESSION.[/b]]"[/color] That is what Christ warns about in Luke 12:47-48 & its FINISHED GREAT TRANSGRESSION of Matthew 12:31-32.

Again, why not come out even more openly and tell us whose side that you are on??? If I am on the devils Daniel 7:25 side, it is surely done OPENLY by my posting, and if 'your posting' is on the devil's side, then is it not also PRESUMPTION SIN? Tell me, how can any person LOVE GOD, and not do all in their power to keep His Commandments??? It is way beyond me!

Let me suggest that we [all are in very serious times.] It is all winding up, or down. And we are seeing the Lord sending us much increased knowledge in these last day along with the promised 'showers of refreshing'. We are not in a 'spiritually' dumb time/period, unless 'presumptously'! James 4:17 I suggest, is most of us of today, that are on this forum!

And it is 'me' as was David who is in great danger of the Great Transgression if I 'knowing' continue of sinning when the Holy Spirit convicts me that it was sin (IS) . Romans 8:14

 

[Solo]

[quote="Jay T":4ae03]

Is the old nature able to keep the ten commandments? Is the flesh able to keep the ten commandments? Do believers sin and break the ten commandments? Did Paul sin?

What part of the believer does not sin?

The part that believes in Jesus Christ.

When Jesus said: 'go and sin no more' (John 5:14 & 8:11)...was He telling the truth ?

Please answer all of the questions.
Thanks.

What does the following scripture mean?

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10

Are you able to walk without sin in your life since being born again?

******
John here:
Just curious, are you on Christ's side or not? (Born Again?) Does not the Born Again mind control the 'carnal' body'??? You are saying that sin is more powerful than Christ's Grace????

He says that I can do all things through Christ that strengtheneth me! Philippians 4:13 He says that .. My GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR THEE! 2 Corinthians 12:9 And here comes your message that is saying that Christ's Grace is not SUFFICENT FOR THEE?????? (that is a question!)

Now: Just what sin unto DEATH are you guilty of? 1 John 5:16-17 & James 1:15?? Notice David in Psalms 19:7. He talks of the LAW OF THE LORD IS PERFECT, CONVERTING THE SOUL! (all but His Sabbath day, huh?)

and in verse 11-12 he states, "Moreover by them is thy servant warned. .. Who can understand his errors? (errors? sins? sin not unto death!)

Now notice the next verse in the K.J.: Psalms 19:13
"Keep back thy servant [also from] *presumptuous sins*;[/u] let them not [have dominion over me;] (see Psalms 66:18, James 1:15, 1 John 5:16-17 again) [color=red[b]][AND THEN WILL I BE INNOCENT FROM THE GREAT TRANSGRESSION.[/b]]"[/color] That is what Christ warns about in Luke 12:47-48 & its FINISHED GREAT TRANSGRESSION of Matthew 12:31-32.

Again, why not come out even more openly and tell us whose side that you are on??? If I am on the devils Daniel 7:25 side, it is surely done OPENLY by my posting, and if 'your posting' is on the devil's side, then is it not also PRESUMPTION SIN? Tell me, how can any person LOVE GOD, and not do all in their power to keep His Commandments??? It is way beyond me!

Let me suggest that we [all are in very serious times.] It is all winding up, or down. And we are seeing the Lord sending us much increased knowledge in these last day along with the promised 'showers of refreshing'. We are not in a 'spiritually' dumb time/period, unless 'presumptously'! James 4:17 I suggest, is most of us of today, that are on this forum!

And it is 'me' as was David who is in great danger of the Great Transgression if I 'knowing' continue of sinning when the Holy Spirit convicts me that it was sin (IS) . Romans 8:14[/quote:4ae03]
John,
Since you became a believer, have you sinned? Why? If you say no, then you are a liar according to the scripture.

Do you not understand what Paul was saying in Romans 7?

Does he not say the he does that evil which he knows that he should not do, and that he recognizes that it is because of his carnal flesh?

If you are currently sinless, then why do you come across as condemning brothers in Christ? Just curious.

Whether you know it or not, you are not yet perfect, nor will you be until your corrupt and mortal body is changed in a twinkling at the coming of Jesus Christ. Do a little more studying of the scriptures that are given you before you condemn the one sharing truth with you. Ok pardner?

 

[John the Baptist]

John here:

You answer questions with questions?? OK: Lets do it your way?? Did Adam sin?
Now: Did Cain sin?
Was this sin the sin unto death with Adam? Was this sin the sin unto death with Cain? Do you honestly know the difference????

Now: Was Paul a LIAR (sinning) in Philippians 3:15-16 for contradicting the Inspiration that caused him to write in Philippians 3:12-14 a direct opposite?? Which way is it, or does Paul know what he is talking about when one pen's the complete chapter!! ... as well as you do?? And if you do, how then do you differ from the ones seen in 2 Corinthians 4:2?

Notice his Words to us in Philippians 3:17 about being 'followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an example. ... 'enemies of the cross of Christ." he says in verse 18.

Summation: Paul says we are perfect, Paul says we are not yet perfect! Here you come and tell us that we are not perfect, that we are sinners. We need to hear the rest of the Everlasting Gospel, not just 1/2 of it which is no Gospel! Bottom line: Any person who is a professed Christian that -flagrantly, openly, and presumptously sin's - is in danger of the sin UNTO DEATH! Psalms 19:13 & James 1:15, 1 John 5:16-17 & Luke 12:47-48.

And any Gospel that gives only 1/2 Truth, is surely sending one on his way! :

 

[Klee shay]

God is the Sabbath.

 

[Klee shay]

...and death is the price of sin we all pay.

 

[Solo]

John here:

You answer questions with questions?? OK: Lets do it your way?? Did Adam sin?
Now: Did Cain sin?
Was this sin the sin unto death with Adam? Was this sin the sin unto death with Cain? Do you honestly know the difference????

Now: Was Paul a LIAR (sinning) in Philippians 3:15-16 for contradicting the Inspiration that caused him to write in Philippians 3:12-14 a direct opposite?? Which way is it, or does Paul know what he is talking about when one pen's the complete chapter!! ... as well as you do?? And if you do, how then do you differ from the ones seen in 2 Corinthians 4:2?

Notice his Words to us in Philippians 3:17 about being 'followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an example. ... 'enemies of the cross of Christ." he says in verse 18.

Summation: Paul says we are perfect, Paul says we are not yet perfect! Here you come and tell us that we are not perfect, that we are sinners. We need to hear the rest of the Everlasting Gospel, not just 1/2 of it which is no Gospel! Bottom line: Any person who is a professed Christian that -flagrantly, openly, and presumptously sin's - is in danger of the sin UNTO DEATH! Psalms 19:13 & James 1:15, 1 John 5:16-17 & Luke 12:47-48.

And any Gospel that gives only 1/2 Truth, is surely sending one on his way! :

John,
You are beginning to sound like a broken record without making any sense. I ask you a simple question to bring to light the error of your thinking. If you refuse to answer the question then I doubt that you have faith in the strength of Jesus Christ the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

Once again I will pose the question to you, doubting the whole time that you will answer it, because it shows the weakened state of your argument.

Since you became a believer, have you sinned? Why?

 

[John the Baptist]

John here:

You answer questions with questions?? OK: Lets do it your way?? Did Adam sin?
Now: Did Cain sin?
Was this sin the sin unto death with Adam? Was this sin the sin unto death with Cain? Do you honestly know the difference????

Now: Was Paul a LIAR (sinning) in Philippians 3:15-16 for contradicting the Inspiration that caused him to write in Philippians 3:12-14 a direct opposite?? Which way is it, or does Paul know what he is talking about when one pen's the complete chapter!! ... as well as you do?? And if you do, how then do you differ from the ones seen in 2 Corinthians 4:2?

Notice his Words to us in Philippians 3:17 about being 'followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an example. ... 'enemies of the cross of Christ." he says in verse 18.

Summation: Paul says we are perfect, Paul says we are not yet perfect! Here you come and tell us that we are not perfect, that we are sinners. We need to hear the rest of the Everlasting Gospel, not just 1/2 of it which is no Gospel! Bottom line: Any person who is a professed Christian that -flagrantly, openly, and presumptously sin's - is in danger of the sin UNTO DEATH! Psalms 19:13 & James 1:15, 1 John 5:16-17 & Luke 12:47-48.

And any Gospel that gives only 1/2 Truth, is surely sending one on his way! :

John,
You are beginning to sound like a broken record without making any sense. I ask you a simple question to bring to light the error of your thinking. If you refuse to answer the question then I doubt that you have faith in the strength of Jesus Christ the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

Once again I will pose the question to you, doubting the whole time that you will answer it, because it shows the weakened state of your argument.

Since you became a believer, have you sinned? Why?

*********
Another 'empty' post? You guys answer question's with a question, again, huh? OK: Tell me if you guys are infiltrated Jesuit's? You sure do come across as such! 2 Corinthians 4:2
--John

 

[Jay T]

Are you able to walk without sin in your life since being born again?

If I kept all 10 commandments ...how does that help you ?

Salvation is an individual matter, one can only be saved, by Jesus Christ alone....who alone, can enable a person, to keep all the commandments of God.

 

[Solo]

Are you able to walk without sin in your life since being born again?

If I kept all 10 commandments ...how does that help you ?

Salvation is an individual matter, one can only be saved, by Jesus Christ alone....who alone, can enable a person, to keep all the commandments of God.

I do not need help, I am asking you whether you are able to walk without sinning since you have been born again. Keeping the ten commandments as Jesus taught, whereby being angry with one's brother is breaking the commandment thou shalt not kill, looking at a woman with lust in ones eyes is committing adultery, and many other ways to break the law. The law now hinges upon two commandments according to Jesus. Love the Lord thy God with all of your heart, mind, soul, with all your strength; and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Have you broken either of these two commandments? Are you able to walk sin free while in your flesh? Was the apostle Paul able to walk sin free while in his flesh?

 

[Solo]

[quote="John the Baptist":63655]John here:

You answer questions with questions?? OK: Lets do it your way?? Did Adam sin?
Now: Did Cain sin?
Was this sin the sin unto death with Adam? Was this sin the sin unto death with Cain? Do you honestly know the difference????

Now: Was Paul a LIAR (sinning) in Philippians 3:15-16 for contradicting the Inspiration that caused him to write in Philippians 3:12-14 a direct opposite?? Which way is it, or does Paul know what he is talking about when one pen's the complete chapter!! ... as well as you do?? And if you do, how then do you differ from the ones seen in 2 Corinthians 4:2?

Notice his Words to us in Philippians 3:17 about being 'followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an example. ... 'enemies of the cross of Christ." he says in verse 18.

Summation: Paul says we are perfect, Paul says we are not yet perfect! Here you come and tell us that we are not perfect, that we are sinners. We need to hear the rest of the Everlasting Gospel, not just 1/2 of it which is no Gospel! Bottom line: Any person who is a professed Christian that -flagrantly, openly, and presumptously sin's - is in danger of the sin UNTO DEATH! Psalms 19:13 & James 1:15, 1 John 5:16-17 & Luke 12:47-48.

And any Gospel that gives only 1/2 Truth, is surely sending one on his way! :

John,
You are beginning to sound like a broken record without making any sense. I ask you a simple question to bring to light the error of your thinking. If you refuse to answer the question then I doubt that you have faith in the strength of Jesus Christ the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

Once again I will pose the question to you, doubting the whole time that you will answer it, because it shows the weakened state of your argument.

Since you became a believer, have you sinned? Why?

*********
Another 'empty' post? You guys answer question's with a question, again, huh? OK: Tell me if you guys are infiltrated Jesuit's? You sure do come across as such! 2 Corinthians 4:2
--John [/quote:63655]
John,
This post does absolutely nothing for you and your productive life with the Lord. You continue to accuse brethren just as the devil does. What good is that? You have a contention with portions of scripture that I post, and with that you attack with false witness. You have answered the questions with your actions. Yes you have sinned since you became a believer, as have all believers. When you get out of the corrupt, mortal flesh that you ride around in, it will change. Don't worry about it, and please do not continue in your attack mode, and accusatory fashion with no proof or knowledge of people on this board you try to divide. Not Good.

 

[John the Baptist]

Are you able to walk without sin in your life since being born again?

If I kept all 10 commandments ...how does that help you ?

Salvation is an individual matter, one can only be saved, by Jesus Christ alone....who alone, can enable a person, to keep all the commandments of God.

*******
Hi, the only saved ones who keep the Commandments of God are Born Again ones. They alone will be innocent of the "Great Transgression". Psalms 19:13. (and these other ones know no more what the sin unto death is, and the sin not unto death is than did Nicodemus 1 John 5:16-17)

It is the Holy Spirit's Inspiration who tell's [all] that He is Given ONLY TO THOSE WHO OBEY HIM! Acts 5:32 No Holy Ghost, no Born Again life. Lost for Eternity! : Obadiah 1:16

CHRIST tells us VERY SIMPLE who it is that is Born Again: "IF YE LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS."

The Sabbath to most is heavy BONDAGE! Shopping, Sports of all kinds! Every conceivable way to trample the Lord's Day under foot! They actually hate the 'spiritual' idea of Honoring the Lord of 'HIS' Sabbath day! But not me, :fadein:.

Now: How much plainer could the Master be than to tell the Universe who it is that LOVES HIM??? And that, for all of Eternity!

It will be quite a FINAL TEST, huh? Exodus 16:28 & Exodus 16:4.
And friend: All of these disaster's following one another in quick succesion will wrap it up very quickly. Anything to get out of the trouble that we are in, huh? So on comes the Sunday legislation whom most agree to anyhow. This will fix the 'spiritual' problem, they think! This will appease God of the JUDGEMENT BOUND EARTH. How right they are, huh, about the JUDGEMENT part at least! See Exodus 16:35's last part of the verse.

And then Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15.

---John

 

[Solo]

I am still waiting for one of the "I keep all of the ten commandments therefore I am worthy" folks to stand up and tell me that they have not sinned since being born of God at the moment they became a believer in Jesus Christ. Not a one has admitted to sinning since becoming a believer with an explanation.

Also, the ten commandments were fullfilled as Jesus taught, and hinge on two commandments: 1) Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind, soul with all your strength, and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself.

How many "I keep all of the ten commandments therefore I am worthy" folks have keep these two commandments?

Any takers?

 

[John the Baptist]

I am still waiting for one of the "I keep all of the ten commandments therefore I am worthy" folks to stand up and tell me that they have not sinned since being born of God at the moment they became a believer in Jesus Christ. Not a one has admitted to sinning since becoming a believer with an explanation.

Also, the ten commandments were fullfilled as Jesus taught, and hinge on two commandments: 1) Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind, soul with all your strength, and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself.

How many "I keep all of the ten commandments therefore I am worthy" folks have keep these two commandments?

Any takers?

************
Which way is it?? Well, I suspect that there are a good bunch that have sinned the sin against the Holy Ghost (or are on the last go round) who post here. 666 finds most already going along with it.

John here:

There was a perhaps un/saved young'in who came on another forum asking some questions. I would like to leave a thought with you from her post if I may? It goes like this:

God commanded Adam & Eve to stay away from the forbidden tree in the 'midst of the Garden'. (Why?? and what happened when they disobeyed)

And on the first day after they were both created, being the 7th Day Sabbath, I believe that God gave them their first sermon. Surely the [WARNING MESSAGE] was given to stay away from the serpents space? (and they were created perfect & sinless too, huh? Just like a new Born Babe in Christ! Romans 8:1)

Well, how much they were told we might not know. Yet, we are told about the serpent of Revelation 12 & Genesis 2 & 3. And the names that he has. Even in Ezekiel 28 we see a type of a king likened to Lucifer in heaven before his fall.

Regardless of one agreeing to this truth, lets just say that Eve did know all about the once perfectly created covering cherub that was set over the Godhead's Ark in the throne room of heaven. And inside of the Ark were the Ten Commandments of the Eternal Covenant of the Godhead. Revelation 11:19 Hebrews 13:20. And over the Ark was the Eternal Everlasting Gospel's Mercy Seat. Revelation 14:6

OK: Just suppose that when Eve sinned and was confronted by God, that her story went like [today's ones??] Well Lord, I know that I AM TO STAY OFF OF THE 'd'EVILS FORBIDDEN GROUND... but,
You told me that satan used to be in heaven! And that he was once perfect! And that he was once the highest angel in heaven! And that he fell because of his 'beauty' and that he was ['full of wisdom'] & all!

Edited for breaking TOS
Rule 2 - No Flaming:
You will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. This will include misquoting another member out of context. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself.
*Amended to include* .... Any person(s) who comes to these forums to attack Christianity or Christians personally will be banned based on the discretion of the Admins & Mods.

Back to.. once was, full of wisdom???? (Lucifer, that is)

And Lord, I just knew that he could teach me some things, and besides I am once saved, always saved, huh? You know, perfect!! and I just knew that he was no match for me! Besides, I was an inquisitive BELIEVER of you??

And todays last days? The devil uses his Genesis 4:7 'desires' to do his lying insinuations & work, whether it be me or Solo, you be the judge?

--------------------
"If ye love Me, keep My commandments".

 

[Heidi]

The Lord Jesus Christ has...a day, especially called, the Lord's day.

There are Bible verses where God (Christ) calls the 7th day sabbath...HIS !
"If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on [my holy day]; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure...." (Isaiah 58:13,14).
I personally believe what Christ says, when He calls the 7th day Sabbath....'MY holy day'.
Need I remind the reader, that the word: 'my' ....relates to, ownership ?


And, before anyone thinks of the 7th day sabbath as...'jewish'.....
Let me remind the reader, that Christ made the 7th day 'BLESSED' & 'HOLY'....some 2300+ years...BEFORE...there ever was a jew !
(Genesis 2:2,3)


"Moreover also I gave them [my sabbaths], to be a [sign] between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them" (Ezekiel 20:12,20).......
" And hallow [my sabbaths]; and they shall be a [sign] between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God".

Now, if the sabbath was just for the jew.....then they alone have a God....and you would NOT !
Read the Bible verse again, as that is exactly what it is saying.

BUT again....my point here is, the word.....'my' ....in reference to the 7th day sabbath.

You neglect, Jay, that Hebrews 4:1-9 redefines the seventh day under the new covenant. The seventh day is now today.

Hebrews 10:1, "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming-not the realities themselves." The reality of the Sabbath is today that we rest from our work once and for all because of Christ's death, just as God rested from His work once and for all.

 

[SputnikBoy]

You neglect, Jay, that Hebrews 4:1-9 redefines the seventh day under the new covenant. The seventh day is now today.

Heidi, AGAIN this has to be brought to your attention. Hebrews 4:1-9 is NOT saying what you so desperately want it to say. TODAY, as in Hebrews 4:1-9, has NOTHING to do with the keeping or not keeping of the Sabbath Day. TODAY, as used in this scripture, is the day (RIGHT NOW!) for one to accept SALVATION! Why do you continue to use a misinterpretation of this scripture on which to base your already erroneous point?

Hebrews 10:1, "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming-not the realities themselves." The reality of the Sabbath is today that we rest from our work once and for all because of Christ's death, just as God rested from His work once and for all.

Paul is NOT referring to the Ten Commandments here. He's referring to the ritual practices and holy days (the shadows) that specifically POINTED to the coming Messiah (of which the 7th-day Sabbath was not one!) that were no longer required.

Do you REALLY believe for one moment that Paul was addressing (and admonishing) people for being obedient to God, for not murdering, for not stealing, for not committing adultery, and so on? Of course not. As long as people were obedient to the requirements of the commandments then Paul would have had no reason to open his mouth. So, he was OBVIOUSLY referring to something else ...!

I don't mind debating issues with those that are open-minded as well as knowledgable enough to make it a fair and meaningful forum. While I don't doubt your sincerity OR your Christianity, Heidi, I DO question your debating issues that you know little or nothing about. Your interpretation of Hebrews 4:1-9 is a glaring example of your absolute ineptness in regard to the topic in question. Sorry.

 

[Jay T]

You neglect, Jay, that Hebrews 4:1-9 redefines the seventh day under the new covenant. The seventh day is now today.

Today, is the 7th day Sabbath ?

Hebrews 10:1, "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming-not the realities themselves." The reality of the Sabbath is today that we rest from our work once and for all because of Christ's death, just as God rested from His work once and for all.

Now, you aren't trying to separate the 4th commandment from, the rest of the other 9 are you ?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Now, (Heidi), you aren't trying to separate the 4th commandment from the rest of the other 9 are you?

Of course she is. I find it unbelievable that professed Christians will go to such lengths to destroy a command of God because they despise it so.

 

[Heidi]

You neglect, Jay, that Hebrews 4:1-9 redefines the seventh day under the new covenant. The seventh day is now today.

Heidi, AGAIN this has to be brought to your attention. Hebrews 4:1-9 is NOT saying what you so desperately want it to say. TODAY, as in Hebrews 4:1-9, has NOTHING to do with the keeping or not keeping of the Sabbath Day. TODAY, as used in this scripture, is the day (RIGHT NOW!) for one to accept SALVATION! Why do you continue to use a misinterpretation of this scripture on which to base your already erroneous point?

Hebrews 10:1, "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming-not the realities themselves." The reality of the Sabbath is today that we rest from our work once and for all because of Christ's death, just as God rested from His work once and for all.

Paul is NOT referring to the Ten Commandments here. He's referring to the ritual practices and holy days (the shadows) that specifically POINTED to the coming Messiah (of which the 7th-day Sabbath was not one!) that were no longer required.

Do you REALLY believe for one moment that Paul was addressing (and admonishing) people for being obedient to God, for not murdering, for not stealing, for not committing adultery, and so on? Of course not. As long as people were obedient to the requirements of the commandments then Paul would have had no reason to open his mouth. So, he was OBVIOUSLY referring to something else ...!

I don't mind debating issues with those that are open-minded as well as knowledgable enough to make it a fair and meaningful forum. While I don't doubt your sincerity OR your Christianity, Heidi, I DO question your debating issues that you know little or nothing about. Your interpretation of Hebrews 4:1-9 is a glaring example of your absolute ineptness in regard to the topic in question. Sorry.

Sputnik, you are taking the word "today" out of the context of the passage, so it is you who are trying to make scripture say what you want it to say.

Hebrews 4:3-9, is talking about the seventh day is it clearly says in that passage. The whole passage is explaining exactly what the seventh day means, which is obviously lost on you.

"Therefore, God set aside as certain day, calling it Today..." But the Jews still think setting aside a certain day means a day of the week! Where in Genesis had a week even been decided upon???? So why do we use man's description of a week then apply it to God's word? :o That is what you are doing also.

And Paul explains why the Jews do this in verse 2. Since the Jews don't understand the heart of the law, they only look at the letter of the law. That is again like consulting a rule book to see how one should love his wife! They therefore haven't a clue what the Sabbath means.

But those who understand the heart of the law see that the law is only a shadow, not the realities themselves. The reality is that "Entering God's rest" is coming to Christ for redemption. That is what that phrase refers to all through scripture. And verse 9 is very clear about what the Sabbath means. "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his."

Do you know who the people of God are, Sputnik? They aren't the Jews because God says in verse 3, "Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, 'So I declare an oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest." Those who do not believe in Christ, will not enter his rest. Instead, they will honor a day of the week instead of knowing what God intended the seventh day to mean. And that is what people who have not entered God's rest do; they see the Sabbath as a day of the week. But true believers do not. You can continue to keep the Jews' interpretation of the Sabbath. But those of us who have entered God's rest know exactly what God's rest means. Therefore, arguing with you about this is pointless.

 

[SputnikBoy]

TODAY, Heidi, is the day on which to accept the free gift of SALVATION. Paul is NOT telling his readers to discard the 7th-day Sabbath, nor to change its meaning. It has nothing to do with the discontinuation of the weekly Sabbath. You're blinded as to what Hebrews 4:1-9 REALLY means but you're not aware that you're blinded. And ...that scripture is obviously NOT clear in its interpretation. If it were YOU would understand it!

For you and others to take that ONE scripture (that you so grossly misinterpret anyway) and take it to mean that God withdrew His initial command is foolhardy at best. If God HAD decided to remove the commandments as a criteria for Christian obedience then He surely would have done so in a manner that would have been CRYSTAL CLEAR! He would not have couched it in ambiguous texts such as Hebrews 4:1-9 where one seems to be able to give an interpretation of their own choosing!

 

[Solo]

What does this commandment mean:

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Exodus 20:12

Please analyze and explain the entire commandment.

Thanks,
Solo