The Lords Sabbaths and his Feasts, Holy Convocations/Leviticus 23:1; 1 Corinthians 5:8

[Jethro Bodine]

What I don't understand is how can we keep the Sabbaths and the Holy Feasts as they were prescribed by God on the exact day He commanded when we have lost track of which day is which?

Ever since the longest day of Joshua 10:12-14 when the orbit of the earth was changed from 360 days to 365 days 6 hours 23 minutes and 41 seconds no one can say precisely which day is the Sabbath.

In a 360 day year starting at the first day of the year Exo 12:2 then counting days as starting at 6:00PM there are 8,640 minutes between then and 6:00 PM Friday, but today we have to add 7.37 minutes per week, so that means the first Sabbath after the longest day actually started on Thursday at 5:52:37.8 ...so I think it's mathematically clear, after all of these centuries, we don't have the slightest idea when and what day is the Sabbath, or any feast days, if we are going to try and observe them as God commanded.

The point being, if the Day, in and of itself is special and that is the reason it is commanded to be honored, the truth is we really do not know which of our days of the week is the real Sabbath. Right?

Which kind of takes the steam out of the argument for God having ordained a specific day of the week, in and of itself as being special, and therefore, required to be kept as a matter of law for his people. IMO, by allowing this loss of time tracking he is showing that he wants the focus to be on the meaning of observing the day, not the legality of observing the day.

 

[Karl]

The point being, if the Day, in and of itself is special and that is the reason it is commanded to be honored, the truth is we really do not know which of our days of the week is the real Sabbath. Right?

Which kind of takes the steam out of the argument for God having ordained a specific day of the week, in and of itself as being special, and therefore, required to be kept as a matter of law for his people. IMO, by allowing this loss of time tracking he is showing that he wants the focus to be on the meaning of observing the day, not the legality of observing the day.

Exactly!!!

When God changed the Jewish calender He told Moses today is the first day of the first month, now start counting the days until the tenth day and then you are to do something, and then count fourteen more days and do something else and then count more days and do another thing, etc., but that was the Old Covenant and Paul tells us all those things were just a shadow of the things to come, today we have the substance, the reality of all of those Old Covenant types, ...our Lord Jesus Christ and emphatically and repeatedly Paul tells us we are IN Christ and Jesus followed, obey and fulfilled those Old Covenant things until He was Crucified, after His Resurrection He didn't and is not today as He is sitting at the right hand of the Father in Heaven and since we are in Him and our lives are hid in Him then we too have the benefit of entering into the rest He is in.

The Old Testament was material and physical and the new Testament is spiritual and eternal, yes there are still Feast days to be accomplished, but is our LORD Jesus Christ that will accomplish them when the correct time arrives, not us, we will accomplish them IN Him when He does, but no man knows when that will be.

 

[Karl]

The Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week, which is Saturday.


The Sabbath was made for man, to give him a day of rest.

Okay, I agree, today we call Saturday the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week, but our weeks are not the same as when God instituted the ordinances and gave His commands, IMO I think it's obvious, from God Himself adding 7.37 minutes per week He was clearly telling us it's not material or physical, but rather spiritual and eternal.

God gave Moses precise times when he was to obey His commands, with the addition of 7.37 minutes in our week do we really think, can we know when the seventh day of the first month started at 6:00 PM, let alone the tenth day of the first month so that we can calculate precisely when 6:00 PM of the seventh day of this week is in the year 2015 AD?

 

[chessman]

But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Galatians 4:4-5

JLB

In your opinion, does "The Law" Paul spoke of in Gal 4:4-5 include: Exodus 20:9 (LEB) Six days you will work, and you will do all your work? I say yes. What say you?

 

[JLB]

Which we now know from the Bible may mean keeping the Sabbath and Feast cycle. Thus the meaning of the word 'observant' they use to distinguish themselves as among those who observe the Sabbath and Festival cycle.

God bless 'em.

Who is they?

I see where the bible shows that Paul "became" as one under the law, so as to save some.

This clearly means he was wanting to see these countrymen of his redeemed from and delivered from the law.

This is the meaning of being saved for a natural Hebrew who was under the law.

If you are insinuating that the Spirit of God leads Gentiles to be Torah Observant, then that is exactly the opposite of what the Bible teaches.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18
Those who are led by others to keep the law of Moses are being "misled", by another Gospel and another spirit.

Those Hebrews that "were" under the law, have been redeemed from the law, and delivered from the law, not so they can go back under the law, but so the can receive the adoption as sons.

But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Galatians 4:4-5

and again -

But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7:6


JLB

 

[JLB]

In your opinion, does "The Law" Paul spoke of in Gal 4:4-5 include: Exodus 20:9 (LEB) Six days you will work, and you will do all your work? I say yes. What say you?

The sabbath according to the law of Moses that was added... has become obsolete and has been taken out of the way, being a shadow of things to come, the substance being Christ Himself.

The Sabbath that God gave in the book of Genesis is for man to rest one day a week.

That Sabbath did not carry the death penalty like the ordinance of the Sabbath according to the law of Moses.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Okay, I agree, today we call Saturday the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week, but our weeks are not the same as when God instituted the ordinances and gave His commands, IMO I think it's obvious, from God Himself adding 7.37 minutes per week He was clearly telling us it's not material or physical, but rather spiritual and eternal.

God gave Moses precise times when he was to obey His commands, with the addition of 7.37 minutes in our week do we really think, can we know when the seventh day of the first month started at 6:00 PM, let alone the tenth day of the first month so that we can calculate precisely when 6:00 PM of the seventh day of this week is in the year 2015 AD?

I have never seen any such 7.37 minutes being added to our week, in the scriptures.

Could you share more about this with me?


Thanks JLB

 

[chessman]

The sabbath according to the law of Moses that was added... has become obsolete and has been taken out of the way, being a shadow of things to come, the substance being Christ Himself.

The Sabbath that God gave in the book of Genesis is for man to rest one day a week.

That Sabbath did not carry the death penalty like the ordinance of the Sabbath according to the law of Moses.


JLB

You didn't answer my question.

 

[JLB]

You didn't answer my question.

Sorry.
Maybe I didn't understand what you asked.

It's been a long day.

In your opinion, does "The Law" Paul spoke of in Gal 4:4-5 include: Exodus 20:9 (LEB) Six days you will work, and you will do all your work? I say yes. What say you?

Yes, if you are calling Exodus 20:9 the law of Moses.

The law of Moses carries this ordinance for the Sabbath -
14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Exodus 31:14


JLB

 

[Karl]

I have never seen any such 7.37 minutes being added to our week, in the scriptures.

Could you share more about this with me?


Thanks JLB

Sure, ...the Scriptures are Jos 10:12-14 and I gave a feeble attempt to explain it back in post # 56.

 

[JLB]

Sure, ...the Scriptures are Jos 10:12-14 and I gave a feeble attempt to explain it back in post # 56.

12 Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel: "Sun, stand still over Gibeon; And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon." 13 So the sun stood still, And the moon stopped, Till the people had revenge Upon their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. 14 And there has been no day like that, before it or after it, that the Lord heeded the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel.
Joshua 10:12-14


Yes I am familiar with this passage of scripture, however I have never heard of any 7.37 minutes.

Do you think it only took 7.37 minutes for Joshua and the children of Israel to finish their business with the enemies of Israel?

I would think it would have taken mush longer, if they needed the sun to stand still in the sky.

...So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

About a whole day sure seems longer than 7.37 minutes?

Why not say it was 22 hours and 7 minutes and 37 seconds.

Why just 7.37 minutes?


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Who is they?

Believers who are observant.

...he was wanting to see these countrymen of his redeemed from and delivered from the law.

Delivered from the law as a way to earn salvation. Which ends up bringing the curse, not the blessing hoped for. Because to earn your salvation by the law you have to keep all of it.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18
Those who are led by others to keep the law of Moses are being "misled", by another Gospel and another spirit.

That other gospel being the false teaching that you can earn your own salvation by keeping the law. I've not met any person who was observant, with the exception of one, maybe two people who didn't understand that keeping the law in order to earn salvation is the 'other' gospel Paul warns about.

Those Hebrews that "were" under the law, have been redeemed from the law, and delivered from the law, not so they can go back under the law, but so the can receive the adoption as sons.

Right, they were not delivered from the law as a way to earn their salvation so that they could go back under the law as a way to earn their salvation. No argument here.

But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7:6

Yep, delivered from the law as a way to earn your salvation, and instead, serving in the new way of the Holy Spirit and faith in the blood of Jesus to get saved. Looks like we're on the same page.

 

[JLB]

Believers who are observant.

What believers?

I only gave an example of Paul, who said he "became" as one under the law.

Paul "pretended" or as he says "became" as under the law, so as to save some.

19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more;
20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law;
21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law;
22 to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 1 Corinthians 9:19-22

What believers in the New Testament?

Delivered from the law as a way to earn salvation.

No, that's not what the scripture says!

It says delivered from the law.

You added...as a way to earn salvation.

That other gospel being the false teaching that you can earn your own salvation by keeping the law. I've not met any person who was observant, with the exception of one, maybe two people who didn't understand that keeping the law in order to earn salvation is the 'other' gospel Paul warns about

The other Gospel is a Gospel that adds anything to the Gospel that Paul preached, which in this case was becoming circumcised and keeping the law of Moses.

Remember the scripture - if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Not under the law means just that, not under obligation to keep the law of Moses.

Yep, delivered from the law as a way to earn your salvation, and instead, serving in the new way of the Holy Spirit and faith in the blood of Jesus to get saved. Looks like we're on the same page.

No, that's not what the scripture says!

It says delivered from the law.

It says redeemed from the law.

You added...as a way to earn salvation.


JLB

 

[Karl]

12 Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel: "Sun, stand still over Gibeon; And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon." 13 So the sun stood still, And the moon stopped, Till the people had revenge Upon their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. 14 And there has been no day like that, before it or after it, that the Lord heeded the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel.
Joshua 10:12-14


Yes I am familiar with this passage of scripture, however I have never heard of any 7.37 minutes.

Do you think it only took 7.37 minutes for Joshua and the children of Israel to finish their business with the enemies of Israel?

I would think it would have taken mush longer, if they needed the sun to stand still in the sky.

...So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

About a whole day sure seems longer than 7.37 minutes?

Why not say it was 22 hours and 7 minutes and 37 seconds.

Why just 7.37 minutes?


JLB

Brother, 5 days 6 hours 23 minutes and 41 seconds were added to the Earth's orbit in one year, if my math is correct and we divide that additional time by 52 weeks we come up with an additional 7.73 minutes per week.

 

[Karl]

@ JBL

I agree with you that we are no longer under the Covenant of the Law for our salvation, but can you please tell me what Law the Holy Spirit has put in on our hearts and and what Law He brings to remembrance in our minds as stated in the New Covenant?

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Heb 10:16

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No, that's not what the scripture says!

It says delivered from the law.

You added...as a way to earn salvation.




The other Gospel is a Gospel that adds anything to the Gospel that Paul preached, which in this case was becoming circumcised and keeping the law of Moses.

Remember the scripture - if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Not under the law means just that, not under obligation to keep the law of Moses.




No, that's not what the scripture says!

It says delivered from the law.

It says redeemed from the law.

You added...as a way to earn salvation.


JLB

You say Romans 7:6 NASB says it is a sin to keep the law because it is the old way that we have been set free from. But we can plainly see in the very next verse that Paul disputes that erroneous understanding of his grace/law teaching and doesn't mean that at all. He says the law is NOT sin. You say it is:

6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. 7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary..."

We know from the whole context of his grace/law teaching that what is sinful about the law is thinking it's a source of righteousness through which you earn your salvation, as opposed to getting righteousness for free through faith in God's forgiveness:

"30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32 Why ? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. " (Romans 9:30-32 NASB)

"3 For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." (Romans 10:3-4 NASB)

So we can easily see that the problem with the law is keeping it in order to earn the righteousness that saves, not keeping it for any reason at all (he plainly said the law is not sin). Paul is very specific about what it is about law keeping that is sinful. When you keep the law in order to earn your righteousness, that is when law keeping is a sin.

 

[Deborah13]

@ JBL

I agree with you that we are no longer under the Covenant of the Law for our salvation, but can you please tell me what Law the Holy Spirit has put in on our hearts and and what Law He brings to remembrance in our minds as stated in the New Covenant?

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Heb 10:16

Hi Karl, what I don't understand is where you are getting the understanding of 6 pm? It is my understanding that the time is determine by sunset, from sunset to sunset. As the seasons change that time changes as well.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/526873/jewish/The-Jewish-Day.htm

 

[JLB]

Brother, 5 days 6 hours 23 minutes and 41 seconds were added to the Earth's orbit in one year, if my math is correct and we divide that additional time by 52 weeks we come up with an additional 7.73 minutes per week.

Really?

5 days, 6 hours, 23 minutes and 41 seconds were added?

WOW!!

When was this added?

So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

How is: about a whole day, suddenly 5 days 6 hours 23 minutes and 41 seconds ?

From 7.73 minutes?

Must be new math.


JLB

 

[JLB]

You say Romans 7:6 NASB says it is a sin to keep the law

Really?

I said it was a sin to keep the law?

I would like to see that quote.

I said the law has been taken away, nailed to the cross, been made obsolete and has vanished away.

Those who have been saved, that were under the law, have been redeemed from the law and delivered from the law, because we are not under the law, but under grace.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

The Holy Spirit does not led us to keep the law of Moses.


JLB

 

[JLB]

"30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32 Why ? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. " (Romans 9:30-32 NASB)

They did not pursue it by faith, because the law is not of faith.

Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them." Galatians 3:12


Remember by faith means; your hear God speak to you and you obey what He says.

Faith comes by hearing God.

The law was a set of rules and ordinances for the children of Israel to follow and do all of.

No relationship with God as Abraham had, whereby it was said of him; "Abraham obeyed My Voice..."

Remember the children of Israel told God they did not want Him to speak to them, but for Him to speak to Moses, and have Moses relay it to them.

Then they said to Moses, "You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die." Exodus 20:19

That's why Moses was called a prophet.

The law is not of faith.


JLB