The mess that OSAS theology made

[Merry Menagerie]

wish we could pin you folks down on this issue once and for all. So, I'll simply ask a question in the hope of getting a simple answer. Are we to believe that your new nature and the fact that the law is written on your heart has you obedient to the commandments of God? If so, why then don't you like the word 'follow' if that is what you're actively doing anyway? Perhaps I'm just thick.

Because it's built in our natures. I don't wake up in the morning and think.."The commandments say 'thou shalt not murder' so I better not murder anyone today" ...For if I did then I'd be consciously trying to follow a commandment. The fact is that when I wake up in the morning I don't have the desire to murder in the first place, not only that but I love my neigbour, which is why I don't want to murder anyone and the love that i have for my neighbour is not by my own power - it is by the power of the Holy Spirit "For the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost. So it's not me following the commandments. I don't even have to so much as THINK about following the commandments because they are fulfilled through me in Jesus Christ my Lord - it's a given. Christ FULFILLED ALL RIGHEOUSNESS so I dont' have to. Then he imputed HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS into me. It's ALL HIM!!! NEVER ME! Therefore HE gets the glory - not me!

Incidentally, the 'law in their hearts' is not a New Covenant doctrine. It IS found elsewhere in the OT. Try Isaiah 51:7. And, the Sabbath-command seems to be included in 'the heart' doctrine (Isaiah 58:13-14). And THAT one is the problematic one to begin with, isn't it?

Hebrews 10 : 16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Did King David ever disobey God? Have you ever disobeyed God? What part of a believer disobeys God, the flesh or the Spirit? No one from the OSIE crowd can comment on what it means to be born again, why not?
Why does the OSIE crowd ignore the fact that God is able to do what he says.

I would say that it's because they don't believe in the finished work of Christ on the Cross. Don't they know it's grace that saves through faith? They can quote the 'faith without works is dead' scripture till the cows come home but without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please him...why? Because you are trying to please him in the flesh! It's futile! It can't be done. That's why Jesus had to come and do it - one time...PERFECTLY. So through faith, we live in the righteousness of Christ where it's HIS WORKS that saves and not our filthy pathetic attempt at works. 'Faith without works (Christ's works through us) may well be dead. But works without faith is also dead.

 

[Solo]

Did King David ever disobey God? Have you ever disobeyed God? What part of a believer disobeys God, the flesh or the Spirit? No one from the OSIE crowd can comment on what it means to be born again, why not?
Why does the OSIE crowd ignore the fact that God is able to do what he says.

I would say that it's because they don't believe in the finished work of Christ on the Cross. Don't they know it's grace that saves through faith? They can quote the 'faith without works is dead' scripture till the cows come home but without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please him...why? Because you are trying to please him in the flesh! It's futile! It can't be done. That's why Jesus had to come and do it - one time...PERFECTLY. So through faith, we live in the righteousness of Christ where it's HIS WORKS that saves and not our filthy pathetic attempt at works. 'Faith without works (Christ's works through us) may well be dead. But works without faith is also dead.

Exactly! Without faith and being born again, there can be no good works.
It is impossible to please God in the sinful flesh; only by serving God in the spirit after being born again can God be pleased by believers.

Praise God for his good work. Thank you Lord for sealing yours with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, for with you, we would all be lost.
Amen.

 

[John the Baptist]

[quote="John the Baptist":850ff]As long as you lack the understanding of all this - then you will always think that OSAS theology is false and of the devil.
_________________

Well then, you tell the universe in the heavenly record books, what 2 Peter 2:19-22 was 'inspired' by the Holy Spirit to be saying??
And verse 19 sounds exactly like what OSAS state, that one can never fall from grace. And not only that, but they also say that the Holy Spirits inspiration in these verses are not truth! Dangerous indeed! Hebrews 6:6

Now: You say, 'As long as you lack understanding of all this-then you will..' OK, it is for you to straighten my understanding out with bible 'inspired' facts! See Luke 12:47-48

---John

Again you do not understand the theology. Those verses you quote fit nice and neatly in the 'preservation of the saints' doctrine.

It is dangerous to not take ALL THE BIBLE as doctrine and leave out other bits. Basically by you saying that those scriptures contradict the OSAS doctrine - you are calling God a liar. I, on the other hand, believe that those scriptures support the basis of OSAS. In fact there is not one scripture that you can throw me that will contradict the OSAS theology. Good try anyway [/quote:850ff]

*******
Hi, John here: I have no problem with what you as a person 'desire' to believe. I do on my part believe that the OSAS doctrine is antichrist at best.
But you are telling the heavenly record books here in these posts, that some just do not get it! Yet, when asked for the only thing that will straighten these 'some ones' out, you do not post up! I am talking of the Masters Word from cover to cover. Matthew 4:4 & 2 Timothy 3:16 & Romans 8:14.

Surely a person Saved, would know where to give an sincere one help for any doctrine?? Matthew 28:20 for starters.

You might do a recheck in Acts 10:13-19, and ask if Peter was calling God a liar or if Peter knew that God does not change, that He is Eternally the same, 'yesterday, today, and forever! Peter was questioning himself, not God. And today? Most still none understand the [three time vision]! But, perhaps this is too deep for most of todays ones here to see also?

---John

 

[SputnikBoy]

Did King David ever disobey God? Have you ever disobeyed God? What part of a believer disobeys God, the flesh or the Spirit? No one from the OSIE crowd can comment on what it means to be born again, why not?
Why does the OSIE crowd ignore the fact that God is able to do what he says.

I would say that it's because they don't believe in the finished work of Christ on the Cross. Don't they know it's grace that saves through faith? They can quote the 'faith without works is dead' scripture till the cows come home but without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please him...why? Because you are trying to please him in the flesh! It's futile! It can't be done. That's why Jesus had to come and do it - one time...PERFECTLY. So through faith, we live in the righteousness of Christ where it's HIS WORKS that saves and not our filthy pathetic attempt at works. 'Faith without works (Christ's works through us) may well be dead. But works without faith is also dead.

Exactly! Without faith and being born again, there can be no good works.
It is impossible to please God in the sinful flesh; only by serving God in the spirit after being born again can God be pleased by believers.

Praise God for his good work. Thank you Lord for sealing yours with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, for with you, we would all be lost.
Amen.

So sayeth the 'tongue-speakers'. What is it with you guys? Someone says 'but works without faith is also dead' and receives a resounding 'Amen' as though something very profound and meaningful has just been announced. Faith without works is dead whichever way you want to twist it around to suit your 'I'm Spirit-filled and you are not' doctrine. Faith requires that we actually make some kind of physical effort to put our faith into action. And it's Jesus who knocks on the door of OUR hearts and waits for US to allow Him in. Or did I just renew my ticket to hell?

 

[Heidi]

I wonder why OSAS theology built up

All I know is that many church goers who believe this theology are luke warm Christians. They don't care about their walk with the Lord: they believe they are saved no matter what they do or don't do.

My separated husband and his family have been forever church goers without much of fruit of christianity.

My husband and his family are not a unique example. I am sure most of you know exactly what I am talking about.

It's mind boggling to me that the giving of false sense of security doesn't bother OSAS supporters.

If what we say mislead fellow believer, we have to stop.

This post is blatant ignorance. Those who know we can never be snatched out of Christ's hands are so thankful and joyful, we want to give up our lives for God. But those who doubt God's unconditional love respond out of fear that will lose their salvation, instead of love, joy, and thanksgiving. Their whole motive is fear which is from the devil. You have a lot to learn.

 

[John the Baptist]

Hi, is this you from another site where I posted this up, maybe even here somewhere??? :wink:
________
John here:
Leave if you must? But before you go consider this: I LOVE CHRIST! (sorry if the caps offend you) And I have been a Christian for 35 some + years. I [serve] my Master the best as I can with [HIS] Eternally provided Provisions for the Born Again one.

OK: Your above posted paragraph tells me that if I keep this up (I will get to what you are talking about, in a minute) that I will be in a 'rude awakening on judgement day'. (perhaps something like burning in hell on & on eternally?)

By what means do you say this? I am confused? I thought that you were, or are saying, that I am O.S.A.S.??? But, now you are telling the 'universe' that, that means you, and not me! Friend: I became a Born Again Christian years ago! (you best study Hosea 4:6 & Christ's last day of 'increased knowledge')

But, because there is no way that I could believe in O.S.A.S, + sun sacredness, + an eternally burning hell, + pork eating & lots other of the devils stuff, (Isaiah 66:15-17) then you [now are telling me] that the O.S.A.S. doctrine will not save me??????? Whatever. *Read Luke 16:31!!
_________________

 

[Solo]

Did King David ever disobey God? Have you ever disobeyed God? What part of a believer disobeys God, the flesh or the Spirit? No one from the OSIE crowd can comment on what it means to be born again, why not?
Why does the OSIE crowd ignore the fact that God is able to do what he says.

I would say that it's because they don't believe in the finished work of Christ on the Cross. Don't they know it's grace that saves through faith? They can quote the 'faith without works is dead' scripture till the cows come home but without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please him...why? Because you are trying to please him in the flesh! It's futile! It can't be done. That's why Jesus had to come and do it - one time...PERFECTLY. So through faith, we live in the righteousness of Christ where it's HIS WORKS that saves and not our filthy pathetic attempt at works. 'Faith without works (Christ's works through us) may well be dead. But works without faith is also dead.

Exactly! Without faith and being born again, there can be no good works.
It is impossible to please God in the sinful flesh; only by serving God in the spirit after being born again can God be pleased by believers.

Praise God for his good work. Thank you Lord for sealing yours with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, for with you, we would all be lost.
Amen.

So sayeth the 'tongue-speakers'. What is it with you guys? Someone says 'but works without faith is also dead' and receives a resounding 'Amen' as though something very profound and meaningful has just been announced. Faith without works is dead whichever way you want to twist it around to suit your 'I'm Spirit-filled and you are not' doctrine. Faith requires that we actually make some kind of physical effort to put our faith into action. And it's Jesus who knocks on the door of OUR hearts and waits for US to allow Him in. Or did I just renew my ticket to hell?

Sputnik,
You are so mixed up on doctrinal issues, you must be just a church member and not born again.
I am not a tongues-speaker. I am Spirit filled. What is Spirit filled to you? What is being born again mean to you? Please do not bring your negative stance against those that speak in tongues again, as it is an attack on individuals instead of a debate on the topic. Where does it say that Jesus knocks on the door to our hearts? Where does it say that we let Jesus in the door to our heart? If you are not born again, you are on your way to hell.

 

[thessalonian]

I wonder why OSAS theology built up

All I know is that many church goers who believe this theology are luke warm Christians. They don't care about their walk with the Lord: they believe they are saved no matter what they do or don't do.

My separated husband and his family have been forever church goers without much of fruit of christianity.

My husband and his family are not a unique example. I am sure most of you know exactly what I am talking about.

It's mind boggling to me that the giving of false sense of security doesn't bother OSAS supporters.

If what we say mislead fellow believer, we have to stop.

This post is blatant ignorance. Those who know we can never be snatched out of Christ's hands are so thankful and joyful, we want to give up our lives for God. But those who doubt God's unconditional love respond out of fear that will lose their salvation, instead of love, joy, and thanksgiving. Their whole motive is fear which is from the devil. You have a lot to learn.

So do you have alot to learn. There is no fear when one trusts in Christ, knowing he will give me the grace to salvation if I keep my eyes fixed on him. The fear would come in if I remove my eyes from him which I know he would allow if I choose it.

I am glad you have this joy you speak of. But you think that because you have this others who do not think like you are in fear. I can tell you I am not. Those whom God will save will not be snatched from his hand. That is true. The ones who are these know they are because they abide in him and continue to do his will. There are those who are in grace however who will not persevere to the end. These are those whom Paul speaks of as "fallen from grace" and "severed from Christ" and cut off. See Galations 5 and Romans 11 for instacne. You can't be severed from what you were never attached to. You can't have fallen from a tree that you were never in. If two men are under a tree and one has a broken leg and the other happens to have come by at that momenet would you say "oh you poor men, both of you fell from that tree"? You would sound foolish I would think. This is the kind of language you are saying Paul uses in saying that the Galations had "fallen from grace".

 

[John the Baptist]

It is not only (but that is far beyond enough, see Joshua 7:12's last part of the verse!) OSAS that rejects the Eternal Gospel, but these other 'man made fruit stuff' also! :roll: Sun sacredness, + an eternally burning hell, + pork eating & lots other of the devils stuff. Isaiah 66:15-17 Luke 16:31!!

 

[Solo]

It is not only (but that is far beyond enough, see Joshua 7:12's last part of the verse!) OSAS that rejects the Eternal Gospel, but these other 'man made fruit stuff' also! :roll: Sun sacredness, + an eternally burning hell, + pork eating & lots other of the devils stuff. Isaiah 66:15-17 Luke 16:31!!

Another misunderstanding of the Word of God. Study the entire scripture, not just quote scripture that backs your position.

4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. 5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. Colossians 2:1-23

 

[Jay T]

[As long as you lack the understanding of all this - then you will always think that OSAS theology is false and of the devil.

satan is the one who STARTED the OSAS thing back in Genesis 3:4.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Did King David ever disobey God? Have you ever disobeyed God? What part of a believer disobeys God, the flesh or the Spirit? No one from the OSIE crowd can comment on what it means to be born again, why not?
Why does the OSIE crowd ignore the fact that God is able to do what he says.

I would say that it's because they don't believe in the finished work of Christ on the Cross. Don't they know it's grace that saves through faith? They can quote the 'faith without works is dead' scripture till the cows come home but without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please him...why? Because you are trying to please him in the flesh! It's futile! It can't be done. That's why Jesus had to come and do it - one time...PERFECTLY. So through faith, we live in the righteousness of Christ where it's HIS WORKS that saves and not our filthy pathetic attempt at works. 'Faith without works (Christ's works through us) may well be dead. But works without faith is also dead.

Exactly! Without faith and being born again, there can be no good works.
It is impossible to please God in the sinful flesh; only by serving God in the spirit after being born again can God be pleased by believers.

Praise God for his good work. Thank you Lord for sealing yours with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, for with you, we would all be lost.
Amen.

So sayeth the 'tongue-speakers'. What is it with you guys? Someone says 'but works without faith is also dead' and receives a resounding 'Amen' as though something very profound and meaningful has just been announced. Faith without works is dead whichever way you want to twist it around to suit your 'I'm Spirit-filled and you are not' doctrine. Faith requires that we actually make some kind of physical effort to put our faith into action. And it's Jesus who knocks on the door of OUR hearts and waits for US to allow Him in. Or did I just renew my ticket to hell?

Sputnik,
You are so mixed up on doctrinal issues, you must be just a church member and not born again.

So, as long as you believe that I'm not 'born again' you should be perhaps less accusing and more concerned. Your tone is always accusatory and demeaning because I'm evidently not at the level of Christianity you claim to be. Oh, by the way, I'm NOT you.

I am not a tongues-speaker. I am Spirit filled. What is Spirit filled to you? What is being born again mean to you? Please do not bring your negative stance against those that speak in tongues again, as it is an attack on individuals instead of a debate on the topic.

You don't seem to have any qualms about reminding me that I'm on my way to hell, Solo. If that isn't negative I don't know what is. As long as you don't 'speak in tongues' I stand corrected if I 'accused' you of doing so. I just had it in my mind that you had said somewhere on the forum that you DO 'speak in tongues'. Obviously I was wrong. And in my defense for raising the issue initially, those who incessantly refer to themselves as being 'Spirit-filled' as you do, Solo, generally DO claim to 'speak in tongues'. This particular practice and 'Spirit-filled' often equate ...so my alluding to this was not really off-topic.

You ask me what is Spirit filled to me, Solo. This question is a loaded one and you know it. Again, I'm not you ...okay? I'm an individual and don't ever want to be put into a box and labeled. While I'm far from perfect and often say and do the wrong things, I'd like to think that others can generally see the fruit of the Spirit in my actions. I have a need for Jesus, Solo, and if that places me at the lower end of your Christian totem pole, then that's where I'm at. I DO believe more in actions than in incessantly telling others how Spirit-filled I am.

Where does it say that Jesus knocks on the door to our hearts? Where does it say that we let Jesus in the door to our heart? If you are not born again, you are on your way to hell.

I guess I was referring to that famous painting where Jesus is standing at the door of a sinner. There is only one door handle and that is on the inside ...the sinner's side of the door. Jesus knocks but it's up to the sinner to let Him in. The point is, I don't believe that Jesus forces His way into anyone's heart. I dare say there are probably a number of scriptures that equate to that theme. As said, Solo, I NEED a Savior. Some of you come across as though you've already attained the level of the Savior. You speak with such arrogance and authority when you condemn someone to hell simply because their version of 'born again' doesn't equate with yours.

 

[Solo]

Did King David ever disobey God? Have you ever disobeyed God? What part of a believer disobeys God, the flesh or the Spirit? No one from the OSIE crowd can comment on what it means to be born again, why not?
Why does the OSIE crowd ignore the fact that God is able to do what he says.

I would say that it's because they don't believe in the finished work of Christ on the Cross. Don't they know it's grace that saves through faith? They can quote the 'faith without works is dead' scripture till the cows come home but without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please him...why? Because you are trying to please him in the flesh! It's futile! It can't be done. That's why Jesus had to come and do it - one time...PERFECTLY. So through faith, we live in the righteousness of Christ where it's HIS WORKS that saves and not our filthy pathetic attempt at works. 'Faith without works (Christ's works through us) may well be dead. But works without faith is also dead.

Exactly! Without faith and being born again, there can be no good works.
It is impossible to please God in the sinful flesh; only by serving God in the spirit after being born again can God be pleased by believers.

Praise God for his good work. Thank you Lord for sealing yours with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, for with you, we would all be lost.
Amen.

So sayeth the 'tongue-speakers'. What is it with you guys? Someone says 'but works without faith is also dead' and receives a resounding 'Amen' as though something very profound and meaningful has just been announced. Faith without works is dead whichever way you want to twist it around to suit your 'I'm Spirit-filled and you are not' doctrine. Faith requires that we actually make some kind of physical effort to put our faith into action. And it's Jesus who knocks on the door of OUR hearts and waits for US to allow Him in. Or did I just renew my ticket to hell?

Sputnik,
You are so mixed up on doctrinal issues, you must be just a church member and not born again.

So, as long as you believe that I'm not 'born again' you should be perhaps less accusing and more concerned. Your tone is always accusatory and demeaning because I'm evidently not at the level of Christianity you claim to be. Oh, by the way, I'm NOT you.

I am not a tongues-speaker. I am Spirit filled. What is Spirit filled to you? What is being born again mean to you? Please do not bring your negative stance against those that speak in tongues again, as it is an attack on individuals instead of a debate on the topic.

You don't seem to have any qualms about reminding me that I'm on my way to hell, Solo. If that isn't negative I don't know what is. As long as you don't 'speak in tongues' I stand corrected if I 'accused' you of doing so. I just had it in my mind that you had said somewhere on the forum that you DO 'speak in tongues'. Obviously I was wrong. And in my defense for raising the issue initially, those who incessantly refer to themselves as being 'Spirit-filled' as you do, Solo, generally DO claim to 'speak in tongues'. This particular practice and 'Spirit-filled' often equate ...so my alluding to this was not really off-topic.

You ask me what is Spirit filled to me, Solo. This question is a loaded one and you know it. Again, I'm not you ...okay? I'm an individual and don't ever want to be put into a box and labeled. While I'm far from perfect and often say and do the wrong things, I'd like to think that others can generally see the fruit of the Spirit in my actions. I have a need for Jesus, Solo, and if that places me at the lower end of your Christian totem pole, then that's where I'm at. I DO believe more in actions than in incessantly telling others how Spirit-filled I am.

Where does it say that Jesus knocks on the door to our hearts? Where does it say that we let Jesus in the door to our heart? If you are not born again, you are on your way to hell.

I guess I was referring to that famous painting where Jesus is standing at the door of a sinner. There is only one door handle and that is on the inside ...the sinner's side of the door. Jesus knocks but it's up to the sinner to let Him in. The point is, I don't believe that Jesus forces His way into anyone's heart. I dare say there are probably a number of scriptures that equate to that theme. As said, Solo, I NEED a Savior. Some of you come across as though you've already attained the level of the Savior. You speak with such arrogance and authority when you condemn someone to hell simply because their version of 'born again' doesn't equate with yours.

Sorry Sputnik,
The sentence that I posted that said that you were doctrinly mixed up and must be a church member and not born again, was a poorly constructed sentence. The intent of the sentence was that going to a church without being born again is the main cause for error in doctrine, and was not meant as a down right claim that you were not born again. I apologize for the statement.
Michael

 

[AVBunyan]

satan is the one who STARTED the OSAS thing back in Genesis 3:4.

Incredible reasoning!!! :-?

Mercy - how do you get this out of Gen. 3:4?

 

[Jay T]

satan is the one who STARTED the OSAS thing back in Genesis 3:4.

Incredible reasoning!!! :-?

Mercy - how do you get this out of Gen. 3:4?

Both OSAS and satan's declaration: "You shall not surely die", (Genesis 3:4)...imply, that to commit a small sin, will not...result in any consequences of punishment, from God.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Ooookay and when does our Lord Jesus Christ come into this?

And if you think that if you commit a small sin means that you will die then we're all in trouble.

Unbelievable!

 

[Solo]

[quote="Jay T":473ee]satan is the one who STARTED the OSAS thing back in Genesis 3:4.

Incredible reasoning!!! :-?

Mercy - how do you get this out of Gen. 3:4?

Both OSAS and satan's declaration: "You shall not surely die", (Genesis 3:4)...imply, that to commit a small sin, will not...result in any consequences of punishment, from God.[/quote:473ee]
Being born of God is that process by which we are redeemed from the dead. We died in Adam but are raised to life in Christ Jesus. True believers will never be lost again, as they can not be unborn from the family of God. Only satan would lie and say that God is not able to save believers from sin for eternity. The lie of Genesis 3:4 was one lie to Adam and Eve that caused them to disobey God. God provided a way by which the corrupt flesh of mankind could be redeemed to Him through faith in Jesus Christ. Why do you think that your flesh is still corrupt and mortal since your born again experience? Why it is because it is still under sin. When will you become incorruptible and immortal? At the time of redemption when Jesus returns. Will the new creature change when Jesus returns? No, the new creature will just be united with an incorruptible, immortal body just as the new creature soul is already since the born again process. Why continue to live as the unspirit-filled folks of the past when liberty has been given as a free gift. Remember, the truth shall set you free.

Why don't you teach us your understanding of being born again, born of God.

Thanks.

 

[John the Baptist]

Sorry Sputnik,
The sentence that I posted that said that you were doctrinly mixed up and must be a church member and not born again, was a poorly constructed sentence. The intent of the sentence was that going to a church without being born again is the main cause for error in doctrine, and was not meant as a down right claim that you were not born again. I apologize for the statement.
Michael

*******
John here: Perhaps you might want to rephase this one to?

 

[Solo]

Sorry Sputnik,
The sentence that I posted that said that you were doctrinly mixed up and must be a church member and not born again, was a poorly constructed sentence. The intent of the sentence was that going to a church without being born again is the main cause for error in doctrine, and was not meant as a down right claim that you were not born again. I apologize for the statement.
Michael

*******
John here: Perhaps you might want to rephase this one to?

*******
Solo here: No, I said exactly what I meant. But as for you, John.................... :wink: :D