The mess that OSAS theology made

[PHIL121]

Boy...there sure are ALOT of trolls on Christian BB's nowadays.

 

[follower of Christ]

I wonder why OSAS theology built up

All I know is that many church goers who believe this theology are luke warm Christians. They don't care about their walk with the Lord: they believe they are saved no matter what they do or don't do.

My separated husband and his family have been forever church goers without much of fruit of christianity.

My husband and his family are not a unique example. I am sure most of you know exactly what I am talking about.

It's mind boggling to me that the giving of false sense of security doesn't bother OSAS supporters.

If what we say mislead fellow believer, we have to stop.

Many in my family are OSAS.
They are lukewarm at best, and all believe they are going to heaven regardless of what they do or how they life....for Christ or not.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

It would certainly be a comforting thought to believe that all I have to do is 'say' I believe in Christ and I'm saved.

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." Matthew 21:22

I can pick a fault in nearly every Christian denomination which contradicts the bible, yet do I throw away that WHICH IS Christ, so that none will believe on him in any way, shape or form contrary to what I believe?

Saying you believe in Christ and you are always saved by Him; is the kind of salavation no-one knows the success of, save Christ himself. Does Christ make it a habit of punishing those who possess faith alone? How ungodly is it to preach that Christ saves and keeps his believers always - that they are not plucked out of his hand?

My suggestion to the original poster is that your comments about OSAS are based on WRATH and not the spirit of God. For if it was, it would speak of that WHICH IS Christ and discern only errors of the scriptural understanding. To simply say you are upset by one (or more) who believe in OSAS and then project that into the understanding of OSAS itself; is to deny Christ.

Do you offer someone their salvation by saying they do not possibly believe in Christ? Or do you start with faith?

Do you really appreciate what Jesus has done for you? How can you keep on saying all you have to do is accept Him as Savior and not as Lord?

That's exactly what you are doing. How arrogant of you. How ungrateful after what He has done.

there are so many verses rebuking people who mislead or stumble.

We are suppose to encourage followers to be obedient to Him and not giving them false assurance.

If we love one another, we encourage each other to be obedient to Him always.

After all His teaching is not burden; on the contrary its blessing. Try to obey everything what He teaches and commands. Then you will never tell anyone OSAS and what we do do not matter.

You really don't get it do you? The OSAS theology DOES NOT contradict the warnings in the bible about 'falling away'. The fact that you believe that it does proves to em, once again, that you lack understanding of the theology.

How arrogant of you to suggest that you are so powerful that you can undo the work of the almighty!

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Your point has no base when one is ignorant of what one is condemning. All religions and theologies have bad eggs INCLUDING YOUR OWN.

Again - I urge you to actually research what it is you disagree with to actually bring some points to the table so we can have a healthy discussion about it. If not then I'm afraid this thread is going to die a quick death.

My base is coming from the fruit what you produce. The Bible says clearly that by our fruit we know if we are true followers or not. You have been avoiding the real issue and I can certainly understand why. We can always twist around the Scripues all we want. Thats why I don't debate it. You want to go on forever making it vague arguments.

You do not have any doctrinal base. If you are going to use the 'fruit' argument than an unsaved person can do that same about Christianity. There are many Christians who produce bad fruit and it reflects badly on Christianity. What do you say to unbelievers who bag out your religion (Christianity) just because they don't see fruit? What do you say them?

Come on! If you're going to use the 'fruit' argument then lets use it....What do you say to unbelievers who say that Christianity is bad because they see Christians do bad things?

 

[Merry Menagerie]

I wonder why OSAS theology built up

All I know is that many church goers who believe this theology are luke warm Christians. They don't care about their walk with the Lord: they believe they are saved no matter what they do or don't do.

My separated husband and his family have been forever church goers without much of fruit of christianity.

My husband and his family are not a unique example. I am sure most of you know exactly what I am talking about.

It's mind boggling to me that the giving of false sense of security doesn't bother OSAS supporters.

If what we say mislead fellow believer, we have to stop.

Many in my family are OSAS.
They are lukewarm at best, and all believe they are going to heaven regardless of what they do or how they life....for Christ or not.

So I ask the same to you, when an unbeliever comes to you saying they don't want to be a Christian because they know Christians who are bad people - what do you say to them? Because you know...Hitler proclaimed to be a Christian...does that make Christianity bad?

 

[joyinhim]

[quote="Klee shay":0e3b4]

It would certainly be a comforting thought to believe that all I have to do is 'say' I believe in Christ and I'm saved.

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." Matthew 21:22

I can pick a fault in nearly every Christian denomination which contradicts the bible, yet do I throw away that WHICH IS Christ, so that none will believe on him in any way, shape or form contrary to what I believe?

Saying you believe in Christ and you are always saved by Him; is the kind of salavation no-one knows the success of, save Christ himself. Does Christ make it a habit of punishing those who possess faith alone? How ungodly is it to preach that Christ saves and keeps his believers always - that they are not plucked out of his hand?

My suggestion to the original poster is that your comments about OSAS are based on WRATH and not the spirit of God. For if it was, it would speak of that WHICH IS Christ and discern only errors of the scriptural understanding. To simply say you are upset by one (or more) who believe in OSAS and then project that into the understanding of OSAS itself; is to deny Christ.

Do you offer someone their salvation by saying they do not possibly believe in Christ? Or do you start with faith?

Do you really appreciate what Jesus has done for you? How can you keep on saying all you have to do is accept Him as Savior and not as Lord?

That's exactly what you are doing. How arrogant of you. How ungrateful after what He has done.

there are so many verses rebuking people who mislead or stumble.

We are suppose to encourage followers to be obedient to Him and not giving them false assurance.

If we love one another, we encourage each other to be obedient to Him always.

After all His teaching is not burden; on the contrary its blessing. Try to obey everything what He teaches and commands. Then you will never tell anyone OSAS and what we do do not matter.

You really don't get it do you? The OSAS theology DOES NOT contradict the warnings in the bible about 'falling away'. The fact that you believe that it does proves to em, once again, that you lack understanding of the theology.

How arrogant of you to suggest that you are so powerful that you can undo the work of the almighty![/quote:0e3b4]

How arrogant and ungrateful of you to say we don't need to be obedient to His teaching or commandments. When did I say I am powerful so I can undo His work?

Read my OP please. You have been avoiding my point to no end.

 

[joyinhim]

[quote="Merry Menagerie":5d974]Your point has no base when one is ignorant of what one is condemning. All religions and theologies have bad eggs INCLUDING YOUR OWN.

Again - I urge you to actually research what it is you disagree with to actually bring some points to the table so we can have a healthy discussion about it. If not then I'm afraid this thread is going to die a quick death.

My base is coming from the fruit what you produce. The Bible says clearly that by our fruit we know if we are true followers or not. You have been avoiding the real issue and I can certainly understand why. We can always twist around the Scripues all we want. Thats why I don't debate it. You want to go on forever making it vague arguments.

You do not have any doctrinal base. If you are going to use the 'fruit' argument than an unsaved person can do that same about Christianity. There are many Christians who produce bad fruit and it reflects badly on Christianity. What do you say to unbelievers who bag out your religion (Christianity) just because they don't see fruit? What do you say them?

Come on! If you're going to use the 'fruit' argument then lets use it....What do you say to unbelievers who say that Christianity is bad because they see Christians do bad things?[/quote:5d974]

That is a very easy question. I would say to them: Jesus tells us to be the salt and light of the world. If people claiming to be Christians and are not being kind or are behaving bad they are not following Jesus' teaching. I apologize for my fellow believers.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

How arrogant and ungrateful of you to say we don't need to be obedient to His teaching or commandments.

You don't understand what it means to be a new creation obviously - oh well

When did I say I am powerful so I can undo His work?

You don't believe in OSAS so obviously you MUST believe that you can undo the work of God.

Read my OP please. You have been avoiding my point to no end.-

No I haven't

 

[Merry Menagerie]

That is a very easy question. I would say to them: Jesus tells us to be the salt and light of the world. If people claiming to be Christians and are not being kind or are behaving bad they are not following Jesus' teaching. I apologize for my fellow believers.

So you obviously recognise that there are those 'Christians' who misrepresent Christianity then right? Why not show the same grace towards those who misrepresent the OSAS doctrine. A bit unfair don't you think?

I've told you over and over that you misunderstand the theology. I believe that you have listened to those who have misrepresented it and I apologise for on behalf of these people.

Don't you want to know what OSAS is REALLY about now? Because as I said, the theology DOES NOT contradict the bible's warnings re: falling away. Don't you want to know how?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Many in my family are OSAS.
They are lukewarm at best, and all believe they are going to heaven regardless of what they do or how they life....for Christ or not.

And THAT is the danger behind the OSAS doctrine. It gives a false sense of security and encourages disobedience and questionable behavior. Not all people are gifted with brain-power, sad to say. Many will be lost believing OSAS.

We need to also bear in mind that OSAS is a human term and is found nowhere in the Bible. So, this entire argument is not scripturally based. I, personally, hate the wretched expression. It seems to be promoted by those who 'buck' at the mere thought of 'obedience to God'. As long as professed Christians are not adhering to the two greatest commandments that apply to God and neighbor, then one might question the 'once saved' part of the silly term anyway. Once Saved Always Saved - who thought that one up in the first place?

 

[joyinhim]

That is a very easy question. I would say to them: Jesus tells us to be the salt and light of the world. If people claiming to be Christians and are not being kind or are behaving bad they are not following Jesus' teaching. I apologize for my fellow believers.

So you obviously recognise that there are those 'Christians' who misrepresent Christianity then right? Why not show the same grace towards those who misrepresent the OSAS doctrine. A bit unfair don't you think?

I've told you over and over that you misunderstand the theology. I believe that you have listened to those who have misrepresented it and I apologise for on behalf of these people.

Don't you want to know what OSAS is REALLY about now? Because as I said, the theology DOES NOT contradict the bible's warnings re: falling away. Don't you want to know how?

Why should I make excuses for the mess you made? They are spreading this kind of sermon all the time. You have to stop it.

You are a believer and you should know better. We have to represent Jesus to non-believers with the truth. We cannot do our job (witnessing) if most of us are misbehaving.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Why should I make excuses for the mess you made?

Right so those Christians who are misrepresenting christianity and making a mess of Christianity you don't apologise on behalf of them then? I thought you said you did.

They are spreading this kind of sermon all the time. You have to stop it.

Actually I'm in the process of correcting a lot of misrepresentation of OSAS - don't worry!

You are a believer and you should know better.

I do know better ;)

[qquote]We have to represent Jesus to non-believers with the truth. We cannot do our job (witnessing) if most of us are misbehaving.[/quote]

And here's the thing - I AGREE WITH YOU!!! And I'm an OSAS supporter - doesnt' that tell you anything?

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Again I say....

I've told you over and over that you misunderstand the theology. I believe that you have listened to those who have misrepresented it and I apologise for on behalf of these people.

Don't you want to know what OSAS is REALLY about now? Because as I said, the theology DOES NOT contradict the bible's warnings re: falling away. Don't you want to know how?

 

[joyinhim]

Why should I make excuses for the mess you made?

Right so those Christians who are misrepresenting christianity and making a mess of Christianity you don't apologise on behalf of them then? I thought you said you did.

[quote:d0f2b]They are spreading this kind of sermon all the time. You have to stop it.

Actually I'm in the process of correcting a lot of misrepresentation of OSAS - don't worry!

You are a believer and you should know better.

I do know better ;)

[qquote]We have to represent Jesus to non-believers with the truth. We cannot do our job (witnessing) if most of us are misbehaving.[/quote:d0f2b]

And here's the thing - I AGREE WITH YOU!!! And I'm an OSAS supporter - doesnt' that tell you anything?[/quote]

Yes, the way you are talking about OSAS tells us a lot about you which is not so good.

You have been spreading the vague and half-truth presentation of Jesus' teaching and I should have to keep correcting misbehaving church goers?

You are making three kinds of presesantaions. One for your church, one for non-believers one for other denominations. This is so deceitful.

There is only one truth, it doesn't have a lot of different faces.

I have attended many denominations. And I have asked many questions to pastors and church goers. So I know what I am talking about. I am also a volunteer evangelist. I have been talking to people a quite bit.

 

[joyinhim]

Again I say....

I've told you over and over that you misunderstand the theology. I believe that you have listened to those who have misrepresented it and I apologise for on behalf of these people.

Don't you want to know what OSAS is REALLY about now? Because as I said, the theology DOES NOT contradict the bible's warnings re: falling away. Don't you want to know how?

No, I don't want to know your theology. Why should I? I have seen the result of this thology. You have no excuse whatsoever. I repeat, we know if we are true followers or not by our fruit. Your theology does huge damage to weak Christians. Just look all around you. Most church goers believe what you spread and they are on their way to destruction. I hope you think very seriously about it and do something about it. You guys owe Christian community a big apology and repentance.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Yes, the way you are talking about OSAS tells us a lot about you which is not so good.

Isn't it? Funny I could say the same thing about you - but I won't...because I'm not that type of person. But obviously you are.

You have been spreading the vague and half-truth presentation of Jesus' teaching and I should have to keep correcting misbehaving church goers?

You have no idea what I have been spreading - since you neither know me nor know my heart.

You are making three kinds of presesantaions. One for your church, one for non-believers one for other denominations. This is so deceitful.

Well since I don't go to church or have a denomination then you're not even half right with that one. There seems to be a lot of assumptions in your posts...do you do this a lot?

There is only one truth, it doesn't have a lot of different faces.

Once again - I agree with you!

I have attended many denominations. And I have asked many questions to pastors and church goers. So I know what I am talking about. I am also a volunteer evangelist. I have been talking to people a quite bit.

And you think I haven't? But I have to disagree with you on the fact that you know what you're talking about Re: OSAS - I'm sorry. Because you really don't.

So what was the purpose of starting this thread? Is it to debate OSAS? Was it to expose lies (because you haven't brought any to the table yet - I'm still waiting). Or is it to sit on your self-righteous high horse and bag out a theology you don't understand and insult your fellow Christians who happen to believe in it?

If it's the latter - then I'm not interested! I don't believe it's very Christian to sit around and throw assuptions and accusations around at people without actually having anything substantial to back it up - other than "Well I know such and such and I talk to people".

So if you're not interested at all in finding out the TRUTH behind the OSAS theology - then I don't wish to waste my time in this thread.

Nice talking to you though - it taught me a lot. Thank you!

BTW I know you from another board ;)

 

[Klee shay]

Do you really appreciate what Jesus has done for you?

Christ knows friend, and that's the bottom line. It is not for me to prove myself to you. It is for Christ to do any work in you and me, that is necessary to bring about his purpose. Please do not equate doubt in my faith, simply because you doubt mine in Christ. He knows, trust him.

How can you keep on saying all you have to do is accept Him as Savior and not as Lord?

I quoted Matthew 21:22 and yet you still doubt? "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive."

Whether you pray for Christ to be your Lord or your Saviour; if you believe it and ask it in prayer, ye shall receive. There is no difference in Christ as Lord or as Saviour, for he is both.

That's exactly what you are doing. How arrogant of you. How ungrateful after what He has done.

Friend, beware of what happened to King Saul. He became jealous that his mighty works in God's name, were looked over in favour of a simple boy named David. For David loved God and enjoyed singing his praises. That simple concept of belief was far greater than all the wars Saul had won in the "name" of God alone.

I am not arrogant for loving God and making Christ my focus. I am not ungrateful to sing the Lord's praises - to say Christ saves and he does so with great mercy.

there are so many verses rebuking people who mislead or stumble.

Yes, and they apply to everyone, for there is none that are righteous. I am not here to follow a religious order; I am here to follow Christ. I am not righteous and neither are you - it is only Christ who is righteous. Proclaiming opinions in the Lord's "name" has no foundation in Christ.

We are suppose to encourage followers to be obedient to Him and not giving them false assurance.

Loving and believing in Christ is a false assurance is it? I found this very sad to read; coming from a fellow Christian.

If we love one another, we encourage each other to be obedient to Him always.

And your kind of encouragement is to shoot everyone down who does not believe in the same understanding of Christ that you do? Is not Christ bigger than your understanding alone? I know he is sure bigger than mine.

Where is your love for Christ in those you condemn? Was it in the Lord's nature to condemn those who needed a Saviour? Why do you condemn a fellow Christian for loving Christ?

After all His teaching is not burden; on the contrary its blessing. Try to obey everything what He teaches and commands. Then you will never tell anyone OSAS and what we do do not matter.

So your denomination alone is the only one trying to walk with Christ? It is a very narrow view of the world you have; looking only from your understanding. Which is why the Lord asked us not to lean on our own understanding; but upon his.

You condemn me for loving the Lord? Friend, I will now turn the other cheek. For there are far greater things that Christ can do than operate within any wrath I could hold towards you.

I love him for the sake of love - not as a reason to hate. I pray you find the peace you are looking for.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Again I say....

I've told you over and over that you misunderstand the theology. I believe that you have listened to those who have misrepresented it and I apologise for on behalf of these people.

Don't you want to know what OSAS is REALLY about now? Because as I said, the theology DOES NOT contradict the bible's warnings re: falling away. Don't you want to know how?

No, I don't want to know your theology. Why should I? I have seen the result of this thology. You have no excuse whatsoever. I repeat, we know if we are true followers or not by our fruit. Your theology does huge damage to weak Christians. Just look all around you. Most church goers believe what you spread and they are on their way to destruction. I hope you think very seriously about it and do something about it. You guys owe Christian community a big apology and repentance.

And you need to quit bagging out something you know nothing about! You don't understand the theology - so therefore your opinion is invalid - sorry.

 

[joyinhim]

[quote="Merry Menagerie":1dfd3]Again I say....

I've told you over and over that you misunderstand the theology. I believe that you have listened to those who have misrepresented it and I apologise for on behalf of these people.

Don't you want to know what OSAS is REALLY about now? Because as I said, the theology DOES NOT contradict the bible's warnings re: falling away. Don't you want to know how?

No, I don't want to know your theology. Why should I? I have seen the result of this thology. You have no excuse whatsoever. I repeat, we know if we are true followers or not by our fruit. Your theology does huge damage to weak Christians. Just look all around you. Most church goers believe what you spread and they are on their way to destruction. I hope you think very seriously about it and do something about it. You guys owe Christian community a big apology and repentance.

And you need to quit bagging out something you know nothing about! You don't understand the theology - so therefore your opinion is invalid - sorry.[/quote:1dfd3]

I truly feel sorry for you. I pray that you love your fellow believers enough to encourage them to be obedient to His teaching and commandments. His teaching and commandments are wonderful enough to deserve everyone's respect.

 

[Klee shay]

It gives a false sense of security and encourages disobedience and questionable behavior. Not all people are gifted with brain-power, sad to say. Many will be lost believing OSAS.

Can you show me where believing in Christ nurtures a false sense of security?

Many will be lost, period. Judgement escapes no religious order. Are you under a false sense of security yourself?

Let me clarify something however. I believe in the concept of OSAS, I do not believe OSAS doctrine will save me. That my friend, is why Christ died on the cross.

A person who wants to follow an idol with the Lord's name on it; will fall away on the last day. For they did not ask for Christ to save them...but a concept (or idlol) of him instead.

This is why judging a Christian's beliefs, as not worthy of Christ is dangerous. Only the Lord knows what is in a person's heart; no matter how it appears on the outside. On the last day we will all be held accountable for what we've done in the Lord's name; regardless of what label we branded our religion as.