The mess that OSAS theology made

[Merry Menagerie]

Oi you having a go at me eh?

Come ooooooorn - I'll take ya on mate! Yeh - come over here and say that! :P :P

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Oh it wasn't directed at me :

Gee ain't my face red or what!

But I come from aussie land too ;)

 

[Klee shay]

You certainly do seem to live in upside-down land

You mean, down under? :

 

[Klee shay]

"I come from the land down under,
where women glow and men chunder.

Can't ya hear, can't ya hear the thunder...
Ya betta run...ya better take...cover."

Song Down Under by Men at Work.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

I was about to post the same thing hey!!

Ha ha - great minds think alike!

...watzing matilda...watzing matilda - you'll come a watzing matilda with meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

 

[joyinhim]

God can achieve so much more than I. :D

Just don't put your faith in any "officers of the Court" :P

It does not seem to be showing God's power in OSAS churches. Get real. Open you eyes and look around. All you have is sleepy pew fillers.

 

[joyinhim]

By the way, which denomination started this infamouse theology? I believe it's Baptist. Correct me if I am wrong.

But many church goers adapted this theology. It's something so easy to hear. It's convenient gimic to get luke warm Christians. This is the main reason why we have so many maga churches.

We have churches every where without His power.

Most churches goers are not any different from non-believers.

We are disgracing His name with our hypcritical practices. :

 

[PHIL121]

OSAS doctrine was started by a nice Jewish boy from Bethlehem, later Capernaum.

 

[NRoof]

joyinhim,
First let me say I have no stance either for or against OSAS at this time. I am in the process of learning both positions and at this time I can see merit in both.

With that in mind I have a question I would like you to answer if you would.

What exactly is it that you disagree with regarding the OSAS theology?

The reason I ask if for my own understanding as you may have something relevant that I need to make a decision either for or against. I have read this from the beginning and to this point I have seen no Biblical reason from you as to why this is a wrong theology.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[PHIL121]

I think joyinhim has made his stance on OSAS ( that's Once Saved Always Saved) pretty clear.

Not that any of it is biblical.

I would think anyone who does even the most cursory of Bible Studies would find there no basis for losing your salvation once you have accepted Christ.

The only verse that could possibly support joyinhim's position is Luke 12:10 concerning blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Yet, since it is the Holy Spirit that places us in union with Christ for eternity, to commit such blasphemy would be to deny that one is a Christian.

 

[joyinhim]

joyinhim,
First let me say I have no stance either for or against OSAS at this time. I am in the process of learning both positions and at this time I can see merit in both.

With that in mind I have a question I would like you to answer if you would.

What exactly is it that you disagree with regarding the OSAS theology?

The reason I ask if for my own understanding as you may have something relevant that I need to make a decision either for or against. I have read this from the beginning and to this point I have seen no Biblical reason from you as to why this is a wrong theology.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Nproof,

Thank you for your interest.

I am a serious Christian. I don't sudy the Bible just for knowledge. I want it to be glory for God to be effective to reach out to lost souls. I never study any particular theology which many denominations emphasize.

I believe we have denomination war in free countries. Those denominations like OSAS, predestination, prosperity, tongue, grace etc..I am very sure we have much more. They are all gimmicks to get more people rather than believers.

They all say they are biblical. But I believe their primary motive is not being biblical.

Why can't we just study plain Bible thoroughly instead of emphasizing some part out of balance and make people confused.

I am saying confused because they are misleading countles churchgoers

If you are happy with the quantity instead of quality, those theology works for you. That's all I have to say.

The fruit of those gimmicks are not glorifying God. I will not waste my time arguing about the Scriprures. We can always misuse and abuse the way we want.

The reality of the most churches are pathethic. I hope you be honest about your faith.

May God be with you

 

[NRoof]

joyinhim,
Thanks for the response. While I appreciate the time it took to respond you did not answer my question. Here it is again.

What exactly is it that you disagree with regarding the OSAS theology?

I would still ask for Biblical reasoning.
The reason I ask this is I need to verify what you say with Gods word. If I can't verify it then how do I know what you are saying is coming from God and not just your opinion?

I hope this makes sense.

 

[Vic C.]

While studying a doctrine unrelated to this topic, I was reminded of these verses and passage...

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ....

... Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Oh yeah, we (the saints) will have to stand in front of our Savior and give an account for our actions, there's little doubt about that. I believe this passage explains rewards will be given or loss, according to to man's works.

1 Cor 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1 Cor 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Cor 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[PHIL121]

Yet, the judgement of 2 Cor 5:10 has NOTHING to do with Salvation.

 

[joyinhim]

joyinhim,
Thanks for the response. While I appreciate the time it took to respond you did not answer my question. Here it is again.

What exactly is it that you disagree with regarding the OSAS theology?

I would still ask for Biblical reasoning.
The reason I ask this is I need to verify what you say with Gods word. If I can't verify it then how do I know what you are saying is coming from God and not just your opinion?

I hope this makes sense.

There is another OSAS thread, I believe those opposers of OSAS did a good job on the Scriptural part.

If you don't like what they have to say you will not like what anyone else says.

If we are true followers we will know by our fruit of Christianity. I hope you look for actual fruit instead of the numbers of the members.

If we are not true followers we will be decieved easily and we don't even care about the fruit of Christianity if you know what I mean.

 

[Klee shay]

I wholeheartedly agree with those passages you've quoted Vic. Thank you for actually taking a biblical stance. It shows your fruit and it's delightful fruit.

For or against OSAS; you didn't say Vic - but you demonstrated a knowledge of the word and a compassion that is required for sober delivery of the word. Just as Christ himself delivered truths to a hostile audience.

"For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but of power, of love and of self-discipline." 2 Timothy 1:7 :D

 

[Klee shay]

NRoof - good luck with your studies. While you will hear many for and against arguments of OSAS on discussion forums; I urge you to rely soley upon your relationship with God when discerning these matters. He won't lead you astray. No-one knows his word better than He.

"Be still and know that I am God...." Psalm 46:10

 

[Vic C.]

Yet, the judgement of 2 Cor 5:10 has NOTHING to do with Salvation.

Yes, I was a bit vague. I was using the 1 Corinthians passage to tie the other verses together. My point was that all of us are going to mess up in our walk; some more than others. I believe this doesn't affect or salvation, but does effect our rewards on the other side. :wink: It also affects our Earthly relationship with the Lord... we miss out on many blessings He would otherwise bestow upon us.

For or against OSAS; you didn't say Vic...

John 6:39-40
39 And this is the will of the Father sending Me, that of all that He has given Me, I shall not lose any of it, but shall raise it up in the last day.
40 And this is the will of the One sending Me, that everyone seeing the Son and believing into Him should have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day. (LITV) ;-)

 

[Merry Menagerie]

joyinhim - you have not given any scriptural base for why you oppose the OSAS theology. This is what is being asked of you. I've asked that you bring something to the discussion and another member has asked WHY you oppose. And you have avoided both our requests.

From my discussion from you, all I can get from you is that you have a big bee in your bonnet about 'church goers' like they are the anti-christ or something, you've assumed things about my status re: church, when I have said that I don't actually go to church. And you have formed an opinion based on heresay, and what you 'see'. None of this seems to have any scriptural relevance whatsoever!

Do you really think that this is a sound bases from which to base your theological opinions on?

 

[farley]

In my opinion, one has to ignore a LOT of Scripture in order to cling to the OSAS doctrine.

Below are a couple of passages which acknowledge that there are believers whose souls will be lost.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 KJV
(1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
(2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
(3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

...and...

Revelation 3:5 KJV
(5) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Comments, anyone?

In Christ,

farley