The midpoint "intermission."

[lecoop]

I believe some where on this site I asked the question , Is it more important to talk to God or to hear from Him?

Most said they thought it was more important to talk than hear.

Now I ask you the same question?

I pray for the answers in Jesus name and believe, and God tells me the answers. It is that simple.

It used to be called praying threw. you will probilly have to talk to someone older than 50 years that would remember the old church talking about it.

You go somewhere with no one else, no phone, no radio, no tv, stay and talk to God until he talks to you. AND HE SPEAKS AMERICAN ENGLISH.

Then you stay close to Him so you can hear him when He answers your questions.

If you are born again, filed with the Spirit. How far away can the answers be?

He might confirm something threw someone else, but He will answer you, yourself. not threw someone else.

1John2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, AND YE NEED NOT ANY MAN TEACH YOU; BUT AS THE SAME ANOINTING TEACHETH YOU OF ALL THINGS, AND IS TRUTH, AND IS NO LIE, and even as it has taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Darrell, praying and believing God for answers is certainly a great thing to do. However, the results we have seen leave us wondering. You have to mix faith with good bible study! Either one by themselves will leave one confused. If indeed you did hear something from the spirit, and wrote the results here for us to read, then I must wonder what spirit you are listening to. There are many voices out there, and if someone wants to hear a voice, there are many voices that will answer.

When any of us hear something in the spiritual realm, we MUST check it with the word of God. If it does not fit, then either we did not hear accurately, lacked understanding of what we heard, or we heard from the wrong spirit. It is as simple as that.

Coop

 

[Darrell dunn]

Just for lecoop And the sake of argument.

The book of Rev. starts with 2,000 years of the church.Rev. ch 2 & 3

Then From ch 4:1 until 20:3 There are 10 1/2 years of tribulations

Then 1,000 years of Christ reign, And satan loosed and the ones that follow him will be destroyed.

And the rest of the humans will live for ever and ever. Rev.21:3 & 4

So the book is for ever long.

But the part that I was speaking of is 10 1/2 years long.

That which most refer to as 7 years.

 

[Darrell dunn]

The two women in Ch 12 & 17 are a contrast between the True church and the false church.

Rev.4:1 The voice said Come up hither, and I will shew thee things to come.

Not history.

No where in history is Israel clothed in Glory of the Father.

And Israel is called the fig tree. not a woman.

This is the bride,or church, and part of the bride will go threw some tribulation because they were not ready, And Jesus was not caught up at birth.

And I guess that we are not joint-heirs with christ Romans 8:7

And won't set on His throne with Him ( which means equal in authority) Rev,3:21

By the way you interpret scripture I dought that you have ever heard Gods voice.

Either that or Jesus lied When I ask the Father for a fish I get a fish, not a serpent

 

[John the Baptist]

Has anyone ever heard the old saying about flying the coop? :
Perhaps we best 'first' stay with the A,B,C,s of 2 Timothy 3:16-17 & Matthew 4:4 instead of any of Rev. until then?
---John

 

[lecoop]

Just for lecoop And the sake of argument.

The book of Rev. starts with 2,000 years of the church.Rev. ch 2 & 3

Then From ch 4:1 until 20:3 There are 10 1/2 years of tribulations

Then 1,000 years of Christ reign, And satan loosed and the ones that follow him will be destroyed.

And the rest of the humans will live for ever and ever. Rev.21:3 & 4

So the book is for ever long.

But the part that I was speaking of is 10 1/2 years long.

That which most refer to as 7 years.

Then From ch 4:1 until 20:3 There are 10 1/2 years of tribulations

Sorry, but I just disagree.

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

When did this happen? Most bible scholors say that these visions happened to John about 95 AD. "John looked." OK, so if John looked, it MUST have happened before he died, around 100 AD. Agreed?

Now, let's move ahead a little:

Revelation 5
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Now this is part of the vision that John saw, in 95 AD. However, visions can be of the past, present or future. Which was this? Was this a vision of something future? Let's look.

Notice verse 3: a diligent search was made for some man worthy to take the book and break the seals, and no man was found.

Why was no man found? If we read ahead, we see that Jesus the Christ became worthy to break the seals, so why was no man found here? Was the search faulty? Did heaven miss it? No, no no! There is only one reason why no man was found.

This vision that God was showing John, was a vision of John's past, back to a time before Jesus rose from the dead: that is why no man was found. John looked back to a time about 60 years into his past, to a time just before Jesus rose from the dead. No man was found, because at that time, during the diligent search that must have taken some extended time, Jesus had not yet risen from the dead, and had not yet become the redeemer of mankind. Believe it! Now see what John saw next:

5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain...

What did John see? He saw Jesus the moment that he rose from the dead and arrived in the throne room, just after He told Mary not to touch Him, for He had not yet ascended to the Father. Now, what does Jesus do the moment that He arrives in heaven?

7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

When, then, did Jesus get this book into His hands? About 33 AD. He took the book the moment that He arrived in heaven. Why? Because this book was the title deed to planet earth, and if the seals could not be broken, then Satan would remain as the God of this planet. Breaking the seals was the beginning of the end of Satan's rule on planet earth. The seals had to be broken: as soon as possible: as soon as a man could be found worthy! What does Jesus do next?

Rev 6: 1And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals...

As soon as Jesus takes the book from the Father and after some praise and worship, Jesus starts breaking the seals.

Now, time for a question:

When was seal # 1 broken?

Answer: about 33 AD.

Now, what were you saying about 10 and one half years?

Suppose we start with the 6th seal, since that is yet in our future. (The first five are long past.) How long will things go from the 6th seal to chapter 20? Wil it be over seven years? Ten years?

Let's suppose that it will only be days, weeks or months between the sixth seal and the 7th. The seventh seal starts off the Day of the Lord, and the 70th week. The 70th week will be exactly 7 years of 360 days each: 1260 days in the first half, and 1260 days in the second half. This will then bring us up to chapter 16, verse 21. AT chapter 16, we will have concluded the 70th week of Daniel. Chapters 17 and 18 are about the destruction of Babylon, which I believe (just human reasoning) will take place at the last vial.

Next, if we read Matt. 24, Jesus said that He would return "immediately after the tribulation of those days." So let's say, days, or weeks after the 7th vial has been poured out, Jesus splits the sky. This takes us to chapter 20. So how long has it been? It has been 7 years, plus the time between the 6th seal and the 7th seal, plus the time after the 70th week, and the time that Jesus comes.

How long is "immediately after?"

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

What happens "immediately after? The cosmic signs happen. How many days or weeks will the cosmic signs take, before people see the Son of Man coming?

The answers to these questions is: No one knows! I suspect there will only be days, not weeks or months. If so, then we are speaking of 7 years, plus a few weeks at most: not 10 and one half.

Therefore, it you are sure of the 10 and one half, you should be able to show us verse by verse why it will be 10 and 1/2.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

The two women in Ch 12 & 17 are a contrast between the True church and the false church.

Says you. But who are you? Most of the church world disagrees with you.

Rev.4:1 The voice said Come up hither, and I will shew thee things to come.

Not history.

Or really? It says, "after this, I looked..." Who looked? John looked. How could John look (and write what he saw) if this was future yet to us? Can't you understand, this had to happen BEFORE John died.

No where in history is Israel clothed in Glory of the Father.

You are mistaken: it says clothed with the sun ,and the moon under her feet. Perhaps you can tell us what this means?

And Israel is called the fig tree. not a woman.

You are mistaken again. She is called a woman, in the verse in question, Rev 12:1

This is the bride,or church, and part of the bride will go threw some tribulation because they were not ready, And Jesus was not caught up at birth.

You are totally mistaken: the bride or church does not give birth to Jesus the Christ. you have it backwards: Jesus gave birth to the church! What bible are you reading? It is a vision, and no, He was caught up about 33 years after birth.

And I guess that we are not joint-heirs with christ Romans 8:7

Of course we are joint heirs with Christ. What does this have to do with our subject? Chapter 12 (in fact, most of the book) is about the Jews! Why do you think the time was called "Jacob's trouble?" Do you find "Paul's trouble" anywhere? That is just goofy.

And won't set on His throne with Him ( which means equal in authority) Rev,3:21

If it says we will, then we will. But what does this have to do with the woman, or the 10 and one half years?

By the way you interpret scripture I dought that you have ever heard Gods voice.

I could say the same, but why bother. I don't care whose voice you hear, what you hear MUST be in line with the Word of God, else you must forget it! I can give you word for word the things that the Holy Spirit spoke to me. For instance, when I bugged God about John weeping much, the HS said only "it shows timing." When I was reading in DAniel about the abomination event, suddenly the HS spoke up and said, "you could find the exact midpoint clearly marked in Revelation."

Either that or Jesus lied When I ask the Father for a fish I get a fish, not a serpent

Jesus does not lie. But on the other hand, many people hear voices. And many people are confused, because they listen to the wrong voice.

Do you pray in tongues, as written in 1 Cor 14:15?

 

[Darrell dunn]

Most of the religious people would not agree with Jesus when he spoke,

So you saying that the church don't agree, Just says they have been reading the wrong book.

When you say that John had a vision, I know that you really don't know God. God is beyond the beginning and beyond the end.

God took John 2,000 and 3000 years into his future, and he witnessed things in person, not in a vision.

God dose not say things just to be talking, So when it says here after it means here after.

To say that the Book of Rev. is a Jewish book, says that there are 2 ways to be saved, being Jew or being christian,

That makes God lie again, There is neither Greek nor Jew Gal.3:28 , Col.3:11.

The 144,000 will have to be saved the same way that you and I were.
By the foolishness of preaching 1Cor.1:21

 

[lecoop]

Most of the religious people would not agree with Jesus when he spoke,

So you saying that the church don't agree, Just says they have been reading the wrong book.

When you say that John had a vision, I know that you really don't know God. God is beyond the beginning and beyond the end.

God took John 2,000 and 3000 years into his future, and he witnessed things in person, not in a vision.

God dose not say things just to be talking, So when it says here after it means here after.

To say that the Book of Rev. is a Jewish book, says that there are 2 ways to be saved, being Jew or being christian,

That makes God lie again, There is neither Greek nor Jew Gal.3:28 , Col.3:11.

The 144,000 will have to be saved the same way that you and I were.
By the foolishness of preaching 1Cor.1:21

You never answered my question:

Do you pray in tongues, as written in 1 Cor 14:15?
You are right: it was the religions leaders that did not accept Jesus' message.

"So you saying that the church don't agree, Just says they have been reading the wrong book."

I don't understand what you are saying here.

"When you say that John had a vision, I know that you really don't know God. God is beyond the beginning and beyond the end."

Why would you say this? If God showed John something in the future, or in the past, it would be called a vision, or else time travel. Yes, God called John up to heaven, and John did see things. But do you know if it was a vision, or if he was seeing things with his eyes?

Did you not read:

Revelation 9:17
And thus I saw the horses in the vision,...

"God took John 2,000 and 3000 years into his future, and he witnessed things in person, not in a vision."

See previous answer.

"God dose not say things just to be talking, So when it says here after it means here after."

If you can read English, you know that this sentence does not preclude or prevent God from including some past tense events in with future events. In fact, the verses we were discussing in Rev. 12 show past tense events: Jesus' birth and ascension.

"To say that the Book of Rev. is a Jewish book, says that there are 2 ways to be saved, being Jew or being christian,

That makes God lie again, There is neither Greek nor Jew Gal.3:28 , Col.3:11."

You have a very narrow vision here. You forget that God has dispensations, and each dispensation has different rules. Under the old covenant there was the law. Under the new covenant, people are born again. So do you know what God will require after this covenant is over, and the fulness of the Gentiles has come in? If you think I am wrong, then show some scritpure. Remember, I pointed you to the messages of the angels in Revelation. There is no mention of being born again. The church age is over at this time, and God has different requirements.

Coop

 

[Darrell dunn]

You really don't know God,

Dispensation, means stewartship or administration,

It dose not mean that God has changed in any way.

It took 4,000 years for God to find the people that would listen to him to put his word in the earth, enough that Jesus Could be brought into the world as the living Word.

And all that changed is the sacrifice was paid in full, so we would not have to do the yearly sacrifices no longer.

If you will notice that while Jesus preached He said that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand,

Then after He died the Message changed to the kingdom of God.

That is because if the Jews as a whole had received Jesus as the massah, the reign of Christ could have started , about 2,000 years ago.

But they didn't so the gospel was passed to the Gentiles, but will be given back to them for the last 7 years.

That is the only change in the future.

Thus the stewartship of the teaching of God is passed from one people to another, Dispensation.

 

[John the Baptist]

You need to clarify this below. Ecclesiastes 3:14, Matthew 23:38 God changes??? ---John
____D.D. wrote:
But they didn't so the gospel was passed to the Gentiles, but will be given back to them for the last 7 years.
That is the only change in the future.

Thus the stewartship of the teaching of God is passed from one people to another, Dispensation.

 

[Darrell dunn]

John

I am not sure what the question is.

But God never changes, He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

His wish is for the people that know Him to tell those that don't,

And that changes, not God.

And the Jews will finish teaching the world about Him, because of God's promises to Abraham.

 

[John the Baptist]

John

I am not sure what the question is.

But God never changes, He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

His wish is for the people that know Him to tell those that don't,

And that changes, not God.

And the Jews will finish teaching the world about Him, because of God's promises to Abraham.

***
John here:
I highlighted my concern. Are you saying that these are again brought back from being a DESOLATE Matthew 23:38 house? (physical Israel) Or are you agreeing that they are the Romans 2:28-29 ones who are the last 144000 of the Virgin fold who take the Virgin Gospel to the world through the mark of the beast?

Sorry about the font size, it will not go to normal for me!

 

[lecoop]

You need to clarify this below. Ecclesiastes 3:14, Matthew 23:38 God changes??? ---John
____D.D. wrote:
But they didn't so the gospel was passed to the Gentiles, but will be given back to them for the last 7 years.
That is the only change in the future.

Thus the stewartship of the teaching of God is passed from one people to another, Dispensation.

Ecclesiastes 3:14??? What about:

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Matthew 23:38????/ What about:

Revelation 14:4
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

What does "firstfruits" bring to mind? Of course there will be "second fruits!" The one third that God brings through the fire!

Coop

 

[lecoop]

You really don't know God,

Dispensation, means stewartship or administration,

It dose not mean that God has changed in any way.

It took 4,000 years for God to find the people that would listen to him to put his word in the earth, enough that Jesus Could be brought into the world as the living Word.

And all that changed is the sacrifice was paid in full, so we would not have to do the yearly sacrifices no longer.

If you will notice that while Jesus preached He said that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand,

Then after He died the Message changed to the kingdom of God.

That is because if the Jews as a whole had received Jesus as the massah, the reign of Christ could have started , about 2,000 years ago.

But they didn't so the gospel was passed to the Gentiles, but will be given back to them for the last 7 years.

That is the only change in the future.

Thus the stewartship of the teaching of God is passed from one people to another, Dispensation.

Darrell:

You STILL have not answered my question. Are you intentionally avoiding it?

"You never answered my question:
Do you pray in tongues, as written in 1 Cor 14:15? "

I said,
"You have a very narrow vision here. You forget that God has dispensations, and each dispensation has different rules. Under the old covenant there was the law. Under the new covenant, people are born again. So do you know what God will require after this covenant is over, and the fulness of the Gentiles has come in? If you think I am wrong, then show some scritpure. Remember, I pointed you to the messages of the angels in Revelation. There is no mention of being born again. The church age is over at this time, and God has different requirements."

You did not show any scripture. Therefore, I will show some.

Rev 11
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Why would Jesus "take" into Himself His great power? Only one reason: the church has this power, but after the church age has ended, Jesus takes back His great power! This is one proof that the church age ended.

Rev 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

What mystery?

Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

The mystery that is finished is the mystery of Christ in the Gentiles, the age of the church. What then?

Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

So what changes when the fulness of the Gentiles will have come in, and the church age has closed? How will people get to God then? Listen close to what the angels preach:

Rev 14
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters

Does this say anything about Jesus' death, burial or resurrection? No, for that age has closed. All that God will require from this time on is to fear Him and worship Him. What does the other angel say?

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,

This is not what to do, but what not to do. So, as I said before, the dispensation of the church age has ended, and now there will be different requirements.

Coop

 

[John the Baptist]

The answers need to come from the one asked of the question! : All you are doing is confusing the questions asked before the answer comes, by asking more questions! Kind of even being worse that at the building of the tower of Babel? :fadein:
--John
*******

Ecclesiastes 3:14??? What about:

Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Matthew 23:38????/ What about:

Revelation 14:4
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

What does "firstfruits" bring to mind? Of course there will be "second fruits!" The one third that God brings through the fire!

Coop

 

[Darrell dunn]

At the end of the Gentle stewardship of the gospel, The Jews will again be given the stewardship of the gospel,

The 144,000 Jews will get born again the same way that you and I have.

By coming to the knowledge of the Lord and excepting him as Lord.

coop I can show you lots of scripture that says if you call upon his name you will be saved, also if you are baptised you will be saved.

But you have to make ALL scripture fit or you have something wrong.

And the book of Rev. is a part of God's word like all the rest.

And Jesus said that you will be held accountable for ever IDLE word, and by your words you will be justified, and by your words thou shalt be condemned. Matt.12:36 & 37

 

[John the Baptist]

At the end of the Gentle stewardship of the gospel, The Jews will again be given the stewardship of the gospel,

The 144,000 Jews will get born again the same way that you and I have.

By coming to the knowledge of the Lord and excepting him as Lord.

coop I can show you lots of scripture that says if you call upon his name you will be saved, also if you are baptised you will be saved.

But you have to make ALL scripture fit or you have something wrong.

And the book of Rev. is a part of God's word like all the rest.

And Jesus said that you will be held accountable for ever IDLE word, and by your words you will be justified, and by your words thou shalt be condemned. Matt.12:36 & 37

***

Hi, I am not Coop. Yet, there is no way for the 'fold' 144000 to come back from the DESOLATE House . (Closed door, sin in full against the Holy Ghost)

And the 144000 have not been defiled with the woman. (with any Revelation 17:5 ones) They actually are in the Gentile or even ignorant Jews (grafted in as Israel, Revelation 2:5) Virgin fold that leaves the Revelation 12:17 ex/Virgin fold, that turns into the Revelation 3:9 repeat. These ones are not physical Israel! (same repeated history as was the new church that was born in Acts)

Yet, Philadelphia will still not be loose canons, but will organize into the required Gospel order. The seventh fold Laodicea will be spewed out again, and replaced by the sixth fold. (the revelation 3:10 144000 ones with Virgin doctrines & with Christ as their leader! see Matt. 25)

Bottom line: If Christ cannot have a united 144000? Then we can be sure that we to will find our walking papers! Acts 5:32 & Matthew 12:32

---John

 

[lecoop]

At the end of the Gentle stewardship of the gospel, The Jews will again be given the stewardship of the gospel,

The 144,000 Jews will get born again the same way that you and I have.

By coming to the knowledge of the Lord and excepting him as Lord.

coop I can show you lots of scripture that says if you call upon his name you will be saved, also if you are baptised you will be saved.

But you have to make ALL scripture fit or you have something wrong.

And the book of Rev. is a part of God's word like all the rest.

And Jesus said that you will be held accountable for ever IDLE word, and by your words you will be justified, and by your words thou shalt be condemned. Matt.12:36 & 37

So show me in Revelation where what I have said does NOT fit? Since you think I am wrong, that should be easy. And while you are at it, show me where the 144,000 are born again. Btw, I am not saying that they are not born again - I am just saying that it would be very hard to find where it says they are. But I am confident that you can show me that.

Coop

 

[John the Baptist]

So show me in Revelation where what I have said does NOT fit? Since you think I am wrong, that should be easy. And while you are at it, show me where the 144,000 are born again. Btw, I am not saying that they are not born again - I am just saying that it would be very hard to find where it says they are. But I am confident that you can show me that.

Coop

******
First off, everyone who [will be] saved will be required to be Born Again! :fadein: John 3:3 ---John

 

[Geo]

Maybe I was away here a bit long, but I never heard about the connection
between the "the revelation 3:10 ones and the 144000" John. Can you show us
where you establish this. You say they are identical? if so, based on what.