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The Pagan Easter

Obadiah said:
I wasn't born yesterday, Gary.
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Yeah, me either. You made a baseless accusation. You even spoke to me in another thread about me putting words in your mouth and here you are, doing the same thing. Just because you assume something doesn't make it so.

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Gary said:
Actually all she did was post scripture that referenced a sunrise service. A service that was referred to as an abomination. She made no accusations. With the exception of "Also" and "Sunrise service?", everything else is scripture. Where's the accusation?

The answer to her question, "Sunrise service?" is yes. What Ezekiel described is a sunrise service.

Ezekiel 8
15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
16 And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of theLord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.


soapbox.gif

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What he describes in actual sun worshipers, as in the disk, spelled s-u-n. Not a worship service dedicated to the Son, S-o-n.
Those who are in a way reenacting when Mary went to the tomb just before light and the Angel of the Lord had rolled the stone away. By then it was light enough that Mary could see inside the tomb and He had Arose!!
So does this worship service provoke God to jealousy? As the one in Ezekiel did.
 
I'll use my mod voice now:
Please avoid making this thread personal. This thread has gotten too close to that several times already, and it makes it very unpleasant for others.
 
ezrider said:
They take counsel with Moses, they cover themselves with the Law; they make their covenant with death.
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I don't know, verses 2 and 3 doesn't sound like that to me. And then it talks about getting rid of the silver and gold.
Why do you believe what you do? What scripture are you getting that from?
 
jeff77 said:
How about a service that doesn't use the word Easter, no egg hunts or chocolate rabbits, but does set aside a particular Sunday to focus on the importance of the resurrection of Jesus?
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That would truly be a beautiful service.

Amen to that!


JLB
 
Deborah13 said:
I don't know, verses 2 and 3 doesn't sound like that to me. And then it talks about getting rid of the silver and gold.
Why do you believe what you do? What scripture are you getting that from?
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Isaiah 30:9
That this is a rebellious people, lying children,
children that will not hear the law of the Lord.

Isaiah 30:15
For thus saith the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel;
In returning and rest shall ye be saved;
in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength:
and ye would not.

How can one ever hear the law when they presume themselves to be sitting in the seat of Moses judging between right and wrong. When you read Matthew 23, when Jesus says woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites.... Have you ever truly heard the word of truth as it was given unto you? Have you received the word as the Pharisee, and have you taken it truly into your heart, or do you still presume to be the one like unto Jesus saying woe unto you.....?
 
Deborah13 said:
I agree.
People worshiping the sun, bowing down to the sun, at sunrise. In Jerusalem, at the temple.
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They were actually facing away from the temple.

Ezekiel 8
16 And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

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Obadiah said:
This is absolutely right. You can not unconsciously worship a false god, or the real God, for that matter. Worship is obviously a state of mind, so if it's not your intention to worship a false god, you are not doing so. It's common sense.
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Is there possibility for the consideration of a sort of balance on this matter? What I mean is not so much the act of worship of ancient gods/goddesses of old. It's obvious paganism has tried to claim everything under the sun as it's own. If we gave credence to such things then every single act and state we are in would be some kind of satanism. This is of course folly, as you and others have already pointed out(I actually thought the posting of the fork would be enough plain common sense for everyone to see).

What I am meaning is the idolatry of nations. Do people really know they are doing this? When people place the statutes of a nation above or to be translated as a command from God himself...isn't this worship of a false God? I'd mostly like to think this is done in ignorance. Is it even the same sort of thing?
 
Gary said:
They were actually facing away from the temple.

Ezekiel 8
16 And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

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Gary I said AT the temple. "at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar"
But that is neither here nor there is it? The point is what they were worshiping and it wasn't the Lord.
 
Deborah13 said:
Gary I said AT the temple. "at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar"
But that is neither here nor there is it? The point is what they were worshiping and it wasn't the Lord.
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Exactly.

Now do you believe the Lord will overlook their blindness?

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Gary said:
Exactly.

Now do you believe the Lord will overlook their blindness?

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I didn't say God would overlook their blindness. They knew exactly what they were doing. Worshiping the sun, an idol, and deliberately turning their backs on God.

ie. Because the Jews, during the second temple period, where doing many corrupt things inside the temple, does that mean all worship in a temple is bad or pagan?
temple - pagan things; sunrise worship - pagan;
temple - Godly things; sunrise worship - Godly;

You are the temple of God. :)
Paul gave us a scripture that directly relates to this.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
There were people who were afraid to eat any meat because they were afraid that it may have been sacrificed to an idol. Paul says that both are received by God, those who eat and those who don't and that we should not judge one another.
So if one believes that by attending a sunrise service they are worshiping the sun, then they shouldn't do it. But they should not judge those who say they are there worshiping the Lord Jesus.
God sees the intent of each personal heart. So that is what I meant by ''actually yes" He forgives our weaknesses when our hearts are sincere about Him.
 
Deborah13 said:
I didn't say God would overlook their blindness. They knew exactly what they were doing. Worshiping the sun, an idol, and deliberately turning their backs on God.

ie. Because the Jews, during the second temple period, where doing many corrupt things inside the temple, does that mean all worship in a temple is bad or pagan?
temple - pagan things; sunrise worship - pagan;
temple - Godly things; sunrise worship - Godly;

You are the temple of God. :)
Paul gave us a scripture that directly relates to this.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
There were people who were afraid to eat any meat because they were afraid that it may have been sacrificed to an idol. Paul says that both are received by God, those who eat and those who don't and that we should not judge one another.
So if one believes that by attending a sunrise service they are worshiping the sun, then they shouldn't do it. But they should not judge those who say they are there worshiping the Lord Jesus.
God sees the intent of each personal heart. So that is what I meant by ''actually yes" He forgives our weaknesses when our hearts are sincere about Him.
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Okay.
 
I'm jumpin in on this waaay late, but...here goes...

...I read something by (of course) CS Lewis once. Lots of things in various forms of paganism overlap with Christianity. The resurrected fertility deity, die to be born again (the mystery cults), the one true God (ancient Egypt, for a time...I think there was also mention of an altar dedicated to great unkown God in the NT somewhere...may be wrong...). Anyway...

...the overlap doesn't invalidate Christianity, or Christian holidays. Lewis called these things "good dreams," sort of like a faint revelation of what was to come, since so much of paganism pre-dates both Christianity and Judaism (Abram, as I recall, was called out of a life in Mesopotamia).

To strip Christianity of all pagan influences is unnecessary, because Christ is the fulfillment, the realization, of all those pagan "good dreams."

And there you have it...my 2 cents...
 
Gary said:
Are you sure?

If Christianity is influenced by paganism, is it really Christianity?

Think about that.

No condemnation here............just saying....

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If Christianity can positively influence paganism, is it really such a bad thing?
 
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