The Poor, The Rich

[Michael74]

The main problem is the payment schedule for those paying in is not reflective of the payments. Someone paying in on a $200k salary for 20 years receives the same benefits as someone paying on a 45k salary over 20 years.

Okay, I get it. Repealing Social Security is better for the rich. Same with repealing Medicare. The rich can easily afford to pay cash for care.

 

[JohnDB]

Okay, I get it. Repealing Social Security is better for the rich. Same with repealing Medicare. The rich can easily afford to pay cash for care.

No...not saying that at all.
The really sticky part comes from ethics and morality and separating these things from mob rule.
Mob Rule doesn't work...but with democracy it is an element of governance that should be avoided... meaning that a politician needs to fall on his own sword for democracy to work...and it hasn't happened in a long while.

 

[GodsGrace]

The social security check isn't much in some locations and a decent amount in others.
In New York it's a good weekend's pocket change...
In some places like Alabama or Mississippi it's enough to live on. (But who would want to?)

The thing about it is that it's a secondary wage/income tax in the guise of a retirement program. Employer's matching funds alongside making it unimaginably profitable for the private investor but abysmal returns when it's the Government...an index fund does better even with high fees and commission payments.
The main problem is the payment schedule for those paying in is not reflective of the payments. Someone paying in on a $200k salary for 20 years receives the same benefits as someone paying on a 45k salary over 20 years.

I don't know if anything has changed John, I've been gone a long time. But I was in charge of payroll at times and I can tell you that whether a person makes 200 thou or 45 thou they might end up paying into social security (fica) exactly the same amount because there's a max on the amount paid in.
And, there's also a max on what a person could receive at retirement time - and this is the reason.

Here in Italy a person used to get 80% of their salary at retirement time...and it went by how many years were put in, so a person could conceivably retire at the age of 50 or so. (don't have the exact figures). One reason why this country is in such bad shape.

 

[GodsGrace]

Interesting. What happened that made you unhappy with your system?

Medicare is not perfect, but its been a blessing to millions of seniors. People need insurance in the USA due to prices. A doc I knew who worked in both Mexico and the USA said he saw a lot of million dollar bills sent to patients in the USA, but not in Mexico.

I talk to American expats who retired in Mexico, and they say treatment is inexpensive and good there. A Canadian I talk to said he is quite happy with the Canadian system. Are Italians in general unhappy with your system? A man I talk to in the Philippines says he is wary of their medicine, and plans to move to Mexico. Each country is different I suppose.

I guess we each have a different opinion on what good health care is. I don't see how it could be better in Mexico than in Italy since Italy is ranked 6th worldwide. Let me see if I could get updated figures....

 

[GodsGrace]

Michael74

OK. Got it.
Here it is:

Europe's best healthcare systems
Every year, the Health Consumer Powerhouse publishes a study about healthcare systems across Europe: the Euro Health Consumer Index (EHCI). This report ranks 35 countries according to the quality of their healthcare systems, based on 48 indicators.

1. Switzerland
2. Netherlands
3. Norway
4. Denmark
5. Belgium
6. Finland
7. Luxemburg
8. Sweden
9. Austria
10. Iceland

2 rankings of world's best healthcare systems
In its study called Mirror, Mirror 2017- International Comparison Reflects Flaws and Opportunities for Better U.S. Health Care, the Commonwealth Fund assessed the performance of healthcare systems in 11 countries based on 72 indicators. The idea was to find out how efficient healthcare in the United States is. The survey ranked US healthcare clear last…

1. United Kingdom

2. Australia

3. Netherlands

4. New Zealand and Norway

6. Switzerland and Sweden

8. Germany

9. Canada

10. France

11. USA

The Bloomberg annual study, Most Efficient Health Care 2018, ranked no less than 56 countries. Asia is the big winner of these rankings.

1. Hong Kong
2. Singapore
3. Spain
4. Italy
5. S. Korea
6. Israel
7. Japan
8. Australia
9. Taiwan
10. United Arab Emirates

Ranking world's healthcare systems: what criteria?
To succeed in ranking healthcare systems around the world, surveys use a more or less significant amount of indicators.

• The EHCI study ranks healthcare systems based on such criteria as patient rights, waiting times for treatment, services provided to patients and prevention.
• The Commonwealth Fund classifies indicators into 5 groups: quality, access, efficiency, equity and healthy lives. Thus, the survey includes indicators like safety, waiting times, administrative organisation and equal access to healthcare.
• Bloomberg uses life expectancy, healthcare cost as percentage of GDP and healthcare cost per capita to rank world's healthcare systems.

 

[JohnDB]

I don't know if anything has changed John, I've been gone a long time. But I was in charge of payroll at times and I can tell you that whether a person makes 200 thou or 45 thou they might end up paying into social security (fica) exactly the same amount because there's a max on the amount paid in.
And, there's also a max on what a person could receive at retirement time - and this is the reason.

Here in Italy a person used to get 80% of their salary at retirement time...and it went by how many years were put in, so a person could conceivably retire at the age of 50 or so. (don't have the exact figures). One reason why this country is in such bad shape.

I was quoting the numbers I did for a reason...at $200,000/yr you top out...no more goes into social security after that point.

 

[GodsGrace]

Interesting. What happened that made you unhappy with your system?

Medicare is not perfect, but its been a blessing to millions of seniors. People need insurance in the USA due to prices. A doc I knew who worked in both Mexico and the USA said he saw a lot of million dollar bills sent to patients in the USA, but not in Mexico.

I talk to American expats who retired in Mexico, and they say treatment is inexpensive and good there. A Canadian I talk to said he is quite happy with the Canadian system. Are Italians in general unhappy with your system? A man I talk to in the Philippines says he is wary of their medicine, and plans to move to Mexico. Each country is different I suppose.

No healthcare system is perfect...but some are better than others.
The reason I don't care for socialized medicine is that you either depend on the govt for everything...or you have to pay for everything.

Waiting lists are long.
You don't know what dr would operate on you.
Hospitals are not all the same.
The care if rather impersonal.

I can tell you that we had a problem in the family which would have taken at least 2 years to resolve if we had to depend on the system here. Luckily we paid for private doctors and test and had our answer in a few months. Many specialists were involved.

I'm sorry for persons that cannot afford private care here.
Most of my friends use private doctors but they still end up in the same hospitals and their dr is not allowed to care for them once they go thru that door.

The primary care is very good. We have a terrific GP and the medicine he prescribes is totally free. The problems start when you need to go further and require a specialist.

 

[Michael74]

Waiting lists are long.

Yes, that's true. Non emergencies often have to wait. A cash doctor will often treat you right away. Its my understanding that cash doctors are usually an option in national health care countries. You were able to find a cash doctor in Italy. People get basic care from national health care, and pay cash if they want extra care or speedier care. That's the general rule.

In the US, prices for cash doctors often tend to be astronomical. Compared to everywhere else in the world. Since they have to find a way to pay for it, they keep favors to lobbyists reasonable over there. One example, US doctors often have to pay $200,000 per year in malpractice insurance. Nowhere else in the world forces doctors to pay that kind of money, which is one reason US doctors charge so much. Another example would be Americans being forced to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a bottle of pills that cost $8 in Europe.

 

[Michael74]

I guess we each have a different opinion on what good health care is. I don't see how it could be better in Mexico than in Italy since Italy is ranked 6th worldwide.

Maybe its just better in the expat region they dwell in, Chapala.

 

[Christ_empowered]

i had an acquaintance...he briefly lived around here, he was from The Netherlands...I seem to recall him mentioning private insurance, for private health treatment, as being a 'perk' from his dad's (big time, corporate) job. do they have that in Italy?

i agree there seem to be major downsides to national health plans, but...look at the US. people go bankrupt from medical bills, go without life saving care, etc. im not a fan of rationing care, but...it seems to be happening, anyway. insurance companies get to make a lot of life and death decisions. they answer to share holders. i guess at the end of the day, the national health plans have to decide who gets treatment, and for what conditions, what point at which to say 'no more,' etc....

that seems that it'd be based more on overall costs of keeping everyone covered and also...it goes into ethics, morality...who gets treatment? when does the gov't say no more? blah blah blah....

paying out of pocket is crazy in the US. I read, somewhere...the avg. doctor in the US makes 2x as much as most foreign doctors. why is medical school so $$$ and hard to get into in the US? that's how they keep the wages high...by controlling the supply of US-trained doctors. meanwhile...

some specialties import like whoa. a huge percentage of psychiatrists, for instance, are foreign-trained. why am i -not- surprised...(LOL)

 

[jasonc]

Christ_empowered has a thread here in the lounge asking whether or not we speak to our neighbors..or, are friendly with them.

Which brought something else to mind....

In New York City neighborhoods are divided by financial and social considerations....mostly financial. It sort of happens naturally because poorer folk can't afford the houses in richer neighborhoods. So, there are poor neighborhoods, middle class neighborhoods, upper middle class, well to do, rich, richer and richest.

I was wondering...is this a good idea or a bad idea?
I've never condisered this before...

What are the pros and cons of this set-up?

Live in a bubble? Its never been otherwise here until recent with the whacky gated community near old homes,mcm types that tend to have higher poverty issues ,rentals.

 

[Christ_empowered]

mcm?

 

[jasonc]

mcm?

Mid century modern .45 to 80,less ornate homes based on utility. Low sloping roofs,with out ac here,jalouisie windows, detached carport,or garage,open carport are options.i have posted photos of them.

 

[Christ_empowered]

do you like it in florida? honestly, the place sounds and seems like a hot mess, sometimes...

 

[jasonc]

do you like it in florida? honestly, the place sounds and seems like a hot mess, sometimes...

There's history of the wild west ,Australia like history I can dig up . Risk of death by mail delivery here in those days

 

[Christ_empowered]

i was playing. i have a friend...really enjoyed parts of florida. said the southern part is full of drugs and violence tho. kinda sad :-(

 

[jasonc]

In the days of ww1 ,this was and for sometime after a house ,it had been used for decades and has modern features, I remember seeing it lit at night

 

[jasonc]

Hallstrom homestead three that are available for s tour. Been to the other ,one is in planning posted photos of these too

 

[jasonc]

Tin is common in old homes and stores .not sure why, this is next to the flagler line ,current fec,nearby lies another older homestead but arent part of the society

 

[jasonc]

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