The Pre Tribulation Rapture: Fact or Fiction?

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uhm that is the problem... they are saints either way and part of the church. that is the problem is there more then one way to the father aside from the cross after the rapture?
 
farouk said:
wonby1:

Oh yes, the Lord does preserve His people.

Why would the church be the object of the Lord's wrath on earth, though?

Remember, there is a distinction between the tribulation principle ('In the world ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world' John 16.33) and the unique period of the great tribulation (Matthew 24.21).
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It is concievable to me that Christians will be hearded up and killed for not taking the mark. In fact, we've seen it to many times in the past not to think it can't happen again.
 
wonby1 said:
It is concievable to me that Christians will be hearded up and killed for not taking the mark. In fact, we've seen it to many times in the past not to think it can't happen again.
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What has happened has happened and what will happen will happen. But we can't make what is sometimes known as newspaper exegesis become our principal way of interpreting Scripture. If you read those references that I cited, clearly the general tribulation principle, and the great tribulation 'such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no nor ever shall be', are distinct.
 
thisnumbersdisconnected said:
Short response: It's a fact.

Next question ...
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thisnumbersdisconnected said:
Then refute it. Don't just post a negative response.
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In any case, I don't see any specific Scripture about the future that has to happen first, before the coming of the Lord Jesus mentioned in 1 Thess. 4 takes place. The moral is, surely, let's serve Him faithfully in the Gospel, meanwhile.

Blessings.
 
What's the worst thing that can happen during the tribulation,simple you can die ie,have your head cut off as most like to say.....Soooo what's the problem,and why do you feel a need to escape?

The real point of the trib,is deception,where your very soul will be a stake.......Nothing will happen that hasn't happened to man in the past...

Below are some early torture methods,and you tell me what could be worst in the trib.......

Physical torture methods
Again the trib is about deception,the graetest in the history of mankind,and escaping is not an option!!!!
 
n2thelight said:
What's the worst thing that can happen during the tribulation,simple you can die ie,have your head cut off as most like to say.....Soooo what's the problem,and why do you feel a need to escape?

The real point of the trib,is deception,where your very soul will be a stake.......Nothing will happen that hasn't happened to man in the past...

Below are some early torture methods,and you tell me what could be worst in the trib.......

Physical torture methods




Again the trib is about deception,the graetest in the history of mankind,and escaping is not an option!!!!
Click to expand...

The Lord gives grace, indeed.

But be mindful that many believers honestly see that the coming of 1 Thess. 4 is the next event.

Since also, as verses have repeatedly been given, above, the tribulation principle in Scripture is distinct from the unique event called the great tribulation.
 
n2thelight said:
What's the worst thing that can happen during the tribulation,simple you can die ie,have your head cut off as most like to say.....Soooo what's the problem,and why do you feel a need to escape?

The real point of the trib,is deception,where your very soul will be a stake.......Nothing will happen that hasn't happened to man in the past...

Below are some early torture methods,and you tell me what could be worst in the trib.......


Physical torture methods
Again the trib is about deception,the graetest in the history of mankind,and escaping is not an option!!!!
Click to expand...

Thanks for bringing on the specifics on the variety of tortures. Some of them don't look too bad. Others don't seem soo bad since it is a 10 day process. Then there are some that just look plain bad no matter which way you slice it. There might not be too much torture before the decapitation if they don't think you will take the mark.
 
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n2thelight said:
Below are some early torture methods,and you tell me what could be worst in the trib.......

Physical torture methods
Click to expand...
 
The saints of God are tortured in the tribulation?

Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
 
Eugene said:
The saints of God are tortured in the tribulation?

Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
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Some are...

Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
 
I think we do need to figure the distinction between the different sorts of tribulation mentioned in John 16.33 and Matthew 24.21. If we read and see the distinction seen in these verses, it is helpful, I think.
 
Eugene said:
The saints of God are tortured in the tribulation?

Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Click to expand...

John 8:32 said:
Some are...

Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Click to expand...

All saints you mention were delivered including the child of the woman caught up to God in Revelation 12:5. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
 
farouk said:
I think we do need to figure the distinction between the different sorts of tribulation mentioned in John 16.33 and Matthew 24.21. If we read and see the distinction seen in these verses, it is helpful, I think.
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There remains two classes of saints in every catching away of the saints as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17: the dead in Christ and then we which remain until Jesus' coming for us in the air.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Now let's determine what tribulation those that remain faithful unto death suffer, and then them patiently keeping God's word who remain until Jesus coming in the following two verses.

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
 
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