Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
If there are no gaps in the timeline then why does the timeline contain three distinct time periods.
That's the first thing the reader needs to understand, when approaching this prophecy.
“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
Daniels 9:26
The prophecy itself tells us this is what we must understand.
Do you understand what the one thing that time periods are separated by?
Example:
What is it that separates the time period of World War 1 and World War 2 ?
Hint: The leader's of those nations involved determined when the wars began and when they ended.
JLB
If a "distinct time period" indicates a gap, then you believe there are are at least two gaps in the timeline, given three distinct time periods. And, if every distinct time period indicates a gap, then the whole timeline is worthless because any length of time can fall between any period (point on the timeline).
There are distinct time periods in the time line because that's how time lines works.
A timeline would indicate the time between the first and second world wars, just like Daniel's timeline indicates the time between events.
ezra
Member
i say to you watch
Luke 21:35-37King James Version (KJV)
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
37 And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives. sorry you don,t know
Watch for armies surrounding Jerusalem, so that you will know to flee to the mountains. Pray that this doesn't happen in Winter. Pray for the strength to escape.
Luke 21:36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
The issue is having the strength, it depends upon us to escape, not God directly (i.e. the Rapture). This accords with v21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it."
Luke 21:35-37 has nothing to do with the Rapture. On the contrary, it implies there's no Pre-Trib Rapture.
.
ezrider
Member
Commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem and temple given
7 weeks of years..... Temple and city is rebuilt
Temple completed and dedicated, sacrifices offed.
62 weeks of years...... Temple worship practiced
Messiah the Prince arrives, begins ministry proclaiming the Kingdom of Heaven and the covenant with many for one week.
midst of week....... Messiah cut off, sacrifice and oblation cease.
rest of week......... Jesus, the RISEN CHRIST was proclaimed to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Spirit of the Lord poured out on believers.
END of the 7th and final week, and end of the 70 weeks of years of Daniel.
All things in Daniel 9:24 being fulfilled.
Peter called to proclaim Christ before Cornelius and others, Holy Spirit poured out upon gentile believers for first time.
Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
to finish the transgression,
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.
All complete and fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
Last edited:
ezra
Member
it implies we are to watch we are to be ready i have heard every type rapture teaching there is no man know the hour or the day
The time periods are separated by time whose events are not part of the time period.
The 70 weeks are made up of three time periods that are not continuous:
7 Weeks
62 weeks
1 Week
No one is claiming that time stops and starts again.
The prophecy given through Daniel by the Spirit of Christ, is foretelling of 70 weeks that has three parts.
These three distinct periods of time are governed by the world ruler during each period of time.
In other words the time periods began and by those who are ruling the world kingdom at that time, or by the event being fulfilled.
“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
Daniel 9:25
The event time period markers were:
- the restoration and rebuilding of Jerusalem
- Messiah the Prince.
The command is what begins the time period of 7 weeks.
The work of rebuilding Jerusalem is the event time marker.
The reason the 69 weeks are indicated by two separate periods of time, is the work of restoring and rebuilding Jerusalem is halted by the ruler of the world kingdom during that time.
Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying,
2 Thus says Cyrus king of Persia:
All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. 3 Who is among you of all His people? May his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel (He is God), which is in Jerusalem. Ezra 1:1-3
This is the command to release the children of Israel for the work of restoring and rebuilding Jerusalem, as foretold by Jeremiah, and also Daniel.
This began the prophetic clock countdown to Messiah the Prince.
This is what stopped the work, and therefore the prophetic clock.
23 Now when the copy of King Artaxerxes’ letter was read before Rehum, Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem against the Jews, and by force of arms made them cease. 24 Thus the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem ceased, and it was discontinued until the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia. Ezra 4:23-24
This was the end of the first 7 weeks.
More to come.
JLB
One more time, what are we to be watching for?
I know, and can answer with scripture.
I want to see if you know what we are to be watching for.
JLB
ezra
Member
since you know you answer what does scripture teach regardless of what you or i believe Christ will return when it is time. the heavenly fathers time line . i lean toward a mid trib .but that is just me i am suppose to be watching and be ready and if we are saved we should be ready oil and our lamps ready
We are to be watching for the signs He gave us to look for.
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!
Matthew 24:15-32
JLB
We are to be watching for the signs He gave us to look for.
Luke says it this way: Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”
Here is it in context.
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”
Luke 21:20-28
JLB
Here are 2 verse's from the scripture that Paul teaches us about the rapture.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
Three main things happen at the coming of the Lord.
- First - The Resurrection: And the dead in Christ will rise first.
- Second - The Rapture: Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them...
At this point, all of His people are gathered together to be with Him in the air, both those who had previously died, and were in heaven, together with those who are alive and remain on earth.
Do you know what the third significant thing that will happen at His coming?
- Third - The destruction of the false messiah; aka antichrist: And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8
At this point I haven't made any claim about pre, mid or post trib coming of the Lord and the resurrection/rapture.
Can you agree with what I have presented so far, or no?
JLB
ezra
Member
i have never disagreed with the above my point is we have no idea when this will take place imo it could happen at any time .i hear people teach this thus and that has take place before Christ returns . every thing is set in motion it could be with in the hour the day or another 100 years. our g parents was watching looking for his return. when the disciples asked about all this one of the main things he focused on let no man deceive you. with with all the new age movement which can be from A-Z just do good or no such thing as hell. i seen a obituary of person i know read he was of the baptist faith and enjoyed drinking beer with all his buddies .
I take it you are unaware that Jesus Christ was crucified, "outside" of the 70 weeks time frame.
"Messiah the Prince" occurred on what has come to be known as "Palm Sunday", with falls "inside" the 70 weeks time period, specifically the second time period called the "62 weeks".
Messiah the Prince was declared by the whole city of Jerusalem, when Jesus came into the city riding on the back of a donkey.
Hosanna to the son of David, is this expression that was cried out by the city of Jerusalem, and refers to Messiah the Prince.
Then the multitudes who went before and those who followed cried out, saying:
“Hosanna to the Son of David!
‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’
Hosanna in the highest!”
Matthew 21:9
Hosanna [save now] is a reference to Psalm 118, and refers to the Messiah.
The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This was the Lord’s doing;
It is marvelous in our eyes.
24 This is the day the Lord has made;
We will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I pray, O Lord;
O Lord, I pray, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!
We have blessed you from the house of the Lord.
Psalm 118:22-26
Save or Savior in the Hebrew is 'yasha' and is a reference to the Lord who's name is salvation.
"Messiah the Prince" occurred on the Sunday when all the city of Jerusalem declared Jesus as Savior, the long expected son of David.
The son of a king is a Prince, who will be King.
Hosanna is the expression that hard-links Jesus with the Messiah, the Savior, as referred to in Psalm 118.
It was on this day, "palm Sunday" that the first 69 weeks ended, which is why Jesus spoke these remarkable words to the Pharisee's who tried to prevent this from happening.
“ ‘Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord!’
Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!”
39 And some of the Pharisees called to Him from the crowd, “Teacher, rebuke Your disciples.”
40 But He answered and said to them, “I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out.”
Luke 19:38-40
Nothing would prevent this prophecy from coming to pass about messiah the Prince, even if the stones laying on the ground would have to declare - Hosanna in the highest, to the son of David.
after this event that marked the end of the 62 weeks, Messiah would be cut off [crucified], but not for Himself.
Which brings us back to Daniel and the specific language of the prophecy.
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
Daniel 9:26
JLB
No it couldn't just happen at any time.
The signs that Jesus listed, will happen first, and we will see them and know that the time is near.
For the sign to be seen, it has to happen.
Specifically this sign: “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15
The Day of the Lord is not going to come as a thief in the night for those who are watching.
The whole reason we were told to watch is, so that that Day does not come upon us as a thief.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5
JLB
Right there in Red words, Jesus tells us to watch for armies coming to Jerusalem so that Christian swill know to flee from the city, to the mountains. This has nothing to do with a Rapture, nor does the statement about knowing the day or the hour have anything to do with the Rapture. Now, you've heart the true Rapture teaching.