JudaicChristian
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The resurrection of the sheep and goats is at the end of the thousand year reign. The goats are destroyed, and after that, death and the grave are done away with.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
The Pre WRATH rapture of the church
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mdo757 said:
I asked for scripture ,,,and this is what I get.........Im wont even say your wrong,,,but without scripture how can we tell?
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Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:"
So Christ is returning.....and the angels are coming with HIm....This is the 7 trump....
Matthew 25:32 "And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"
SO Christ is going to start dividing nations,,,which of course means people.....
Matthew 25:33 "And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left."
SO Christ has just returned,,,,When Christ returns ,,,we will all be changed,,,,that will also begin the 1000 reign.,,,,,satan will also be locked up at this time and the division of the sheep and the goats will be put into play......
sheshisown
Member
:waving I have copied a rather appropo message given today by Pastor Jon Courson. Which I believe details this event... and more~ gives us understanding of being EN ~ raptured with our wonderful LORD even today!
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not, for God took him.
Genesis 5:24
“Who shall I say sent me?†asked Moses of God.
“Say I AM that I AM hath sent you†(see Exodus 3:14).
And with this, Moses must have come to realize that if God is “I AM,†like Enoch, he “was not.â€
John the Baptist must have come to the same conclusion, because when he was asked if he was the Messiah, he emphatically declared, “I am not†(John 1:20). Oh, how we as a culture, as a body, and as individuals need to grasp what Enoch, Moses, and John the Baptist understood so clearly: that God is, and we are not. You see, I believe the problem for most of us is that we are constantly trying to figure out who we are, what we should do, how we should minister, where we should go. Yet the more we think about how we’re doing, where we’re going, or what we’re thinking, and the more we talk about ourselves, make reference to ourselves, or draw attention to ourselves, the more misery we heap upon ourselves.
Do you ever get tired of hearing your own voice, of dealing with your own stuff, of taking your own pulse? I do. That’s because we were created not for self-indulgence or introspection, but solely to give pleasure to God (Revelation 4:11). It is only logical, then, to join Enoch, Moses, and John the Baptist in losing our lives in the wonder of His glory (John 3:30) and in decreasing so that He might increase.
Because Adam sinned, and because the wages of sin is death, everyone in Adam’s family tree ends up the same way: dead. There is, however, one exception. There is one guy who never dies. After walking with God three hundred years, one day the Lord simply snatches, grabs, raptures Enoch.
The wages of sin is still death. But, like Enoch, there will be a people who will not die. Paul put it this way: “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord†(1 Thessalonians 4:17). I believe we are the generation who will see the rapture of the church. But even before that glorious day, you and I can experience rapture in our hearts presently. You see, the Latin word raptus speaks of the physical event that will take place when Jesus comes to call His church home. But it also speaks of an emotional event that can take place right now.
“I was enraptured by that music,†we say. Or, “The poem she sent me enraptured me.†Is your heart enraptured? Maybe you’ve walked with the Lord for ten years; maybe you’ve been a believer for twenty years; but maybe you haven’t found the Lord to be all that enthralling lately. Instead, maybe you’re discouraged, defeated, or depressed. Maybe you’ve read that happy are the people whose God is the Lord (Psalm 144:15), and the joy of the Lord is my strength (Nehemiah 8:10), but you’re feeling anything but happy and joyful.
Why is this?
It is because you’re not doing what Enoch did. Look at our text: Enoch pleased God. That is, as he walked with God, Enoch brought pleasure to God. The closer you walk to God today, the more you’ll be enraptured, taken, caught up with Him. The godliest people I know don’t talk about themselves. The happiest people I know are not focused on themselves. The folks I truly admire are not those who live to please themselves. The people who are the most godly and happy, the people who are just a joy to be around are those who live for one reason: to simply walk with and please God. May we be such people.http://www.joncourson.com/ His messages are displayed for only one day on his website, this one appears January 18th 2010.
sheshisown~
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not, for God took him.
Genesis 5:24
“Who shall I say sent me?†asked Moses of God.
“Say I AM that I AM hath sent you†(see Exodus 3:14).
And with this, Moses must have come to realize that if God is “I AM,†like Enoch, he “was not.â€
John the Baptist must have come to the same conclusion, because when he was asked if he was the Messiah, he emphatically declared, “I am not†(John 1:20). Oh, how we as a culture, as a body, and as individuals need to grasp what Enoch, Moses, and John the Baptist understood so clearly: that God is, and we are not. You see, I believe the problem for most of us is that we are constantly trying to figure out who we are, what we should do, how we should minister, where we should go. Yet the more we think about how we’re doing, where we’re going, or what we’re thinking, and the more we talk about ourselves, make reference to ourselves, or draw attention to ourselves, the more misery we heap upon ourselves.
Do you ever get tired of hearing your own voice, of dealing with your own stuff, of taking your own pulse? I do. That’s because we were created not for self-indulgence or introspection, but solely to give pleasure to God (Revelation 4:11). It is only logical, then, to join Enoch, Moses, and John the Baptist in losing our lives in the wonder of His glory (John 3:30) and in decreasing so that He might increase.
Because Adam sinned, and because the wages of sin is death, everyone in Adam’s family tree ends up the same way: dead. There is, however, one exception. There is one guy who never dies. After walking with God three hundred years, one day the Lord simply snatches, grabs, raptures Enoch.
The wages of sin is still death. But, like Enoch, there will be a people who will not die. Paul put it this way: “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord†(1 Thessalonians 4:17). I believe we are the generation who will see the rapture of the church. But even before that glorious day, you and I can experience rapture in our hearts presently. You see, the Latin word raptus speaks of the physical event that will take place when Jesus comes to call His church home. But it also speaks of an emotional event that can take place right now.
“I was enraptured by that music,†we say. Or, “The poem she sent me enraptured me.†Is your heart enraptured? Maybe you’ve walked with the Lord for ten years; maybe you’ve been a believer for twenty years; but maybe you haven’t found the Lord to be all that enthralling lately. Instead, maybe you’re discouraged, defeated, or depressed. Maybe you’ve read that happy are the people whose God is the Lord (Psalm 144:15), and the joy of the Lord is my strength (Nehemiah 8:10), but you’re feeling anything but happy and joyful.
Why is this?
It is because you’re not doing what Enoch did. Look at our text: Enoch pleased God. That is, as he walked with God, Enoch brought pleasure to God. The closer you walk to God today, the more you’ll be enraptured, taken, caught up with Him. The godliest people I know don’t talk about themselves. The happiest people I know are not focused on themselves. The folks I truly admire are not those who live to please themselves. The people who are the most godly and happy, the people who are just a joy to be around are those who live for one reason: to simply walk with and please God. May we be such people.http://www.joncourson.com/ His messages are displayed for only one day on his website, this one appears January 18th 2010.
sheshisown~This is based on a persons personal feelings,,,,hes not Elijah,,hes not Moses,,,,hes not Enoch,,,He wants to be raptured,,,well thats fine,,,its not biblical though......The disciples asked Christ about the end of the age and the signs of is coming,,,,cause what,,,,Christ didnt say diddly about no rapture....
JudaicChristian
Member
Matthew 25:32(THE) said:
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
The first resurrection is for the Elect of God only. There will be no goats in that bunch. Matthew 24:22
If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. That would have to mean that God intends for there to be survivors from the Elect. Isaiah 45:18
For this is what Yahwah says— he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited— he says: "I am Yahwah, and there is no other.
mdo757 said:
Sorry,,,but,,,I just dont understand your use of scripture,,,in trying to prove your points....
How does the scriptures you provided prove that the second avent is the second ressurection????? IT doesnt........Revelation 20 has told you perfectly that Christ returning and changing all into spiritual bodys and reigning for the 1000 year period is the first ressurection........
JudaicChristian
Member
There is no judgement in the first resurrection. The first resurrection is only for the Elect. In the last resurrection of the sheep and goats, the sheep will be spared. The reign of Christ is both in Heaven and also on earth for a thousand years.(THE) said:
mdo757 said:
DUde,,I dont care about posting opinions.......DO you read the bible ??????
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
There ia a judgement,,,,some will be judged worthy to reign with Christ and be counted immortal,,,others will have to wait until satan is realesed and they must be tested again because they failed the first test.....
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
JudaicChristian
Member
(THE) said:
DUde,,I dont care about posting opinions.......DO you read the bible ??????
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
There ia a judgement,,,,some will be judged worthy to reign with Christ and be counted immortal,,,others will have to wait until satan is realesed and they must be tested again because they failed the first test.....
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,[/quote:1k70dj1k]
Your are probilbly the only Christian here who does not realize that Im speaking from scripture. Revelation 20:5
...They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.(The rest of the dead [The Sheep and Goats] did not come to life until [AFTER] the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection [Of the Elect].
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they [The Elect] will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
sheshisown
Member
mdo575~
I wonder if you believe in the Trinity...
One of the most important doctrines of the Christian faith is that of the Trinity.
Yet, the "concept" of God in three separate persons, existing as only One God is not specifically named by Christ either. Still~ it is a fact written into the "whole" word of God~ just as the rapture is. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God. From Scripture we learn that God is a triune Being or, a Trinity.
In the same way we can learn about the rapture...
And just as it is appointed for humans to die once, and after that the judgment. Hebrews 9:27
There were, however, two exceptions to this rule ~ Enoch and Elijah. Neither of these men died. The Bible says this of them;
Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away. Genesis 5:24
As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah ascended in a whirlwind into heaven. 2 Kings 2:11
But not only are Enoch and Elijah the exception to the rule about death, the New Testament reveals to us something that had not been foretold ~ except perhaps in types and shadows... There will be an entire generation of people who will never die.
The Scripture explains it in the following way:
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord Himself, with a shout, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Another explanation is given in 1st Corinthians 15:51-58
Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When this perishable body puts on imperishability, and this mortal body puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will be fulfilled: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved, be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in the work of the Lord, because you know that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.
These scriptures clearly state that a living generation of Christians will not experience death...
but will be taken up to meet the Lord. So the believers who are living at the time of the rapture, or translation, of the church, will not have to be resurrected... They will be changed, while they are alive, from mortal to immortal, from corruptible to incorruptible... and instantaneously changed at the time of the rapture of the church to be with Christ forever in their glorified body. 
The resurrection from the dead will be what most believers experience. A small number in comparison will not die but will be changed as was the case with the Old Testament characters Enoch and Elijah. This event is known as the "rapture" or "translation" of the church.
I believe, personally, that we live in the generation to be raptured... That of course is my personal conviction, and of course cannot be confirmed by the Bible... But I will also state that no other generation has lived in such a time which lines up with the "season" that Christ told us to watch for as the one in which He will come for His church... :heart
Father~ may Your church be ready... sheHisown~
I wonder if you believe in the Trinity...
One of the most important doctrines of the Christian faith is that of the Trinity.
Yet, the "concept" of God in three separate persons, existing as only One God is not specifically named by Christ either. Still~ it is a fact written into the "whole" word of God~ just as the rapture is. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God. From Scripture we learn that God is a triune Being or, a Trinity.
In the same way we can learn about the rapture...
And just as it is appointed for humans to die once, and after that the judgment. Hebrews 9:27
There were, however, two exceptions to this rule ~ Enoch and Elijah. Neither of these men died. The Bible says this of them;
Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away. Genesis 5:24
As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah ascended in a whirlwind into heaven. 2 Kings 2:11
But not only are Enoch and Elijah the exception to the rule about death, the New Testament reveals to us something that had not been foretold ~ except perhaps in types and shadows... There will be an entire generation of people who will never die.
The Scripture explains it in the following way:
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord Himself, with a shout, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Another explanation is given in 1st Corinthians 15:51-58
Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When this perishable body puts on imperishability, and this mortal body puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will be fulfilled: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved, be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in the work of the Lord, because you know that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.
These scriptures clearly state that a living generation of Christians will not experience death...
but will be taken up to meet the Lord. So the believers who are living at the time of the rapture, or translation, of the church, will not have to be resurrected... They will be changed, while they are alive, from mortal to immortal, from corruptible to incorruptible... and instantaneously changed at the time of the rapture of the church to be with Christ forever in their glorified body. The resurrection from the dead will be what most believers experience. A small number in comparison will not die but will be changed as was the case with the Old Testament characters Enoch and Elijah. This event is known as the "rapture" or "translation" of the church.
I believe, personally, that we live in the generation to be raptured... That of course is my personal conviction, and of course cannot be confirmed by the Bible... But I will also state that no other generation has lived in such a time which lines up with the "season" that Christ told us to watch for as the one in which He will come for His church... :heart
Father~ may Your church be ready... sheHisown~
In a faith based on faith, I strongly lean towards the notion that no one will be raptured who has no faith in the rapture.
Quick note about Enoch and Elijah.... they were caught up, but not changed.. Thats why i believe they are the 2 witnesses and not Moses. The "change" or resurrection or change to the glorified body happened w Jesus first and ends w the saints of the last days before Jesus can come back w His saints. Otherwise Enoch, then Elijah would have been the firstfruit of the resurrection, but it was Christ. Those 2 men don't have their glorified body yet, but they will when they are resurrected and caught up to be w the Lord (Rev.11:11-12). That will be the 5th and the last rapture of the first resurrection. The second resurrection will take place 1000 years later for every damned soul to be reunited in their physical body in order to be judged and thrown into the lake of fire (Rev.20; 21:8; Isa.66:22-24)
Quick note about Enoch and Elijah.... they were caught up, but not changed.. Thats why i believe they are the 2 witnesses and not Moses. The "change" or resurrection or change to the glorified body happened w Jesus first and ends w the saints of the last days before Jesus can come back w His saints. Otherwise Enoch, then Elijah would have been the firstfruit of the resurrection, but it was Christ. Those 2 men don't have their glorified body yet, but they will when they are resurrected and caught up to be w the Lord (Rev.11:11-12). That will be the 5th and the last rapture of the first resurrection. The second resurrection will take place 1000 years later for every damned soul to be reunited in their physical body in order to be judged and thrown into the lake of fire (Rev.20; 21:8; Isa.66:22-24)
XTruth said:
NO where in the bible does it speak of a rapture,,,,and no-where in the bible does it ever ever ever say if you dont believe in a rapture you wont go.........
Thats what rapturist do,,,they tell people they wont go if they dont belive in a weak attempt to make them believe ..............
Christ said he wants you to be working when He returns ....how can you be working if your not here?????????????
Your right in one sense,,,,I dont wanna go in no stinking rapture and I wont,,,God has never took is people out the way,,,He as always delivered them........
NOt to mention I think its a coward move for christians to wanna leave the earth and not be here when our very enemy is here.......
But if you can please present one little scripture,,,just one,,,, that says if you dont believe in the rapture you wont go????????????
interpreter
Member
Jesus never mentions a rapture, either in the Gospels or in the Revelation, given to us directly by Jesus.
As it was in the days of Noah and Lot, the bad guys will be taken away and the good guys left. I pray that I am one of those "left behind."
As it was in the days of Noah and Lot, the bad guys will be taken away and the good guys left. I pray that I am one of those "left behind."
sheshisown said:The Scripture explains it in the following way:
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord Himself, with a shout, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Another explanation is given in 1st Corinthians 15:51-58
Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When this perishable body puts on imperishability, and this mortal body puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will be fulfilled: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved, be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in the work of the Lord, because you know that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.
These scriptures clearly state that a living generation of Christians will not experience death...
The resurrection from the dead will be what most believers experience. A small number in comparison will not die but will be changed as was the case with the Old Testament characters Enoch and Elijah. This event is known as the "rapture" or "translation" of the church.
The question is NOT about whether Paul's teaching in 1 Thess.4 and 1 Cor.15 is true, for it is. The area in question is whether or not he meant that as a Pre-Tribulational "secret rapture" of the Church PRIOR to the great tribulation.
Further, just because some choose not to use the word "rapture" does not mean they don't believe in the twinkling of an eye change Paul taught of the gathering of the saints to Christ Jesus. The word 'rapture' comes from a Latin version of the Greek word 'harpazo' which is translated as "caught up" in the KJV Bible. The actual word 'rapture' is not from the Greek, nor is it in the KJV Bible in English. If someone wants to use the word 'rapture' for that "caught up" event, fine, but it doesn't mean someone who doesn't use it is refusing to accept what The Bible declares about our gathering to Christ when He comes.
Also, our Lord Jesus shows in John 5 at the sound of His voice there will be TWO different types of resurrection, BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. The resurrection unto life for those in Him, and also a resurrection unto damnation for the wicked. The idea of a pre-trib rapture goes directly against what our Lord Jesus declared there, and that should strike an alarm immediately.
A deeper study of 1 Corinthians 15 also confirms what our Lord Jesus taught in John 5 about two types of resurrection, which Paul himself also mentioned in Acts 24:15.
The bottom line? When the twinkling of an eye change comes, it will be on the 7th trump, which is the "last trump" and "trump" Paul taught in both 1 Thess.4 and 1 Cor.15, and that change will involve EVERYONE still alive on earth at that time, including the wicked being changed too, for that is the timing Christ gave in John 5 about the raising of the dead. Paul was pulling from Isaiah 25 about the resurrection in 1 Cor.15, which describes a time when God will remove the 'vail' off the face of all nations. That's where the 'death swallowed up in victory' Message original comes from.
That change Paul taught was revealed by the Old Testament prophets. It's about the literal change of this earthy state we live in to one where the heavenly is revealed to all, and that's HOW every eye shall see Christ's coming, which in NO way is a hidded or secret coming. It will end this present world how it is, for everyone, not just for us who have believed on Christ Jesus.
Most people are so excited about some peter pan sky party,,,they dont even wanna look at the text,,,,so lets look at it.....
I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"
SO Christ will come down from Heaven,,,,,when an archangel blows the trump,,,surely the 7th trump......The dead in Christ shall rise first......
THe dead in Christ are those that have lived in there flesh bodys,,,and have died and gone to be with the Lord.......
There rising with our Lord,,,they will return with Christ......There not in holes in the ground,,and no-ones coming out the ground like on "Night of the living dead" arrrrrrr
I Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
Then we which remain shall be caught up in the clouds.......
Lets look at this word "cloud" ,,,Paul lso used this same word "cloud" in Hebrews 12....
Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a "CLOUD" of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
When Paul uses this word "cloud" he is refering to gathering ,,,a group,,,not a literal cloud.....
So I Thessalonians 4:17 We will not be raptured,,,we will be gathered together in a big group to meet the Lord in the air..........Lets look at this word "air"
#109 and is the "breath of life" 109. aer ah-ayr' from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by analogy, to blow); "air" (as naturally circumambient):--air.
This word "Air" does not mean "air" in the sky.......It means spiritual air,,,our spirit.....
SO What we have from this is ,,,,At the sound of the 7th trump Christ will return ,,,we will be gathered and changed into our spiritual bodys......
There will be no Peter Pan roadtrips ,,,,or any Zombies.....
I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"
SO Christ will come down from Heaven,,,,,when an archangel blows the trump,,,surely the 7th trump......The dead in Christ shall rise first......
THe dead in Christ are those that have lived in there flesh bodys,,,and have died and gone to be with the Lord.......
There rising with our Lord,,,they will return with Christ......There not in holes in the ground,,and no-ones coming out the ground like on "Night of the living dead" arrrrrrr
I Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
Then we which remain shall be caught up in the clouds.......
Lets look at this word "cloud" ,,,Paul lso used this same word "cloud" in Hebrews 12....
Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a "CLOUD" of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
When Paul uses this word "cloud" he is refering to gathering ,,,a group,,,not a literal cloud.....
So I Thessalonians 4:17 We will not be raptured,,,we will be gathered together in a big group to meet the Lord in the air..........Lets look at this word "air"
#109 and is the "breath of life" 109. aer ah-ayr' from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by analogy, to blow); "air" (as naturally circumambient):--air.
This word "Air" does not mean "air" in the sky.......It means spiritual air,,,our spirit.....
SO What we have from this is ,,,,At the sound of the 7th trump Christ will return ,,,we will be gathered and changed into our spiritual bodys......
There will be no Peter Pan roadtrips ,,,,or any Zombies.....
sheshisown
Member
The word rapture is not used in the Bible... but neither is the word, Trinity. We believe in the Trinity because God teaches us about it in the Bible...
Also the words caught up or, harpazo in Greek, is used in the Bible:
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Lexicon results in the Strong's lexicon as follows:
harpaz?
1) to seize, carry off by force
2) to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3) to snatch out or away
The word rapture is from the Latin word, currently pronounced rapturous, which is used in the place of harpazo in this text. That is where the word rapture~ came from the Textus ReceptusTranslation. The Textus Receptus is based upon various Greek texts but also carries some influence from the Latin Vulgate. The earliest work was prepared by Desiderius Erasmus:
4:17 ?????? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ?????????????? ??? ??? ?????? ???????????? ?? ???????? ??? ????????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ???????
Also the Parsing information regarding this verb is future indicative...
The future tense corresponds to the English future, and indicates the contemplated or certain occurrence of an event which has not yet occurred. The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact. It WILL OCCUR.
sheshisown~
Also the words caught up or, harpazo in Greek, is used in the Bible:
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Lexicon results in the Strong's lexicon as follows:
harpaz?
1) to seize, carry off by force
2) to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3) to snatch out or away
The word rapture is from the Latin word, currently pronounced rapturous, which is used in the place of harpazo in this text. That is where the word rapture~ came from the Textus ReceptusTranslation. The Textus Receptus is based upon various Greek texts but also carries some influence from the Latin Vulgate. The earliest work was prepared by Desiderius Erasmus:
4:17 ?????? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ?????????????? ??? ??? ?????? ???????????? ?? ???????? ??? ????????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ???????
Also the Parsing information regarding this verb is future indicative...
The future tense corresponds to the English future, and indicates the contemplated or certain occurrence of an event which has not yet occurred. The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact. It WILL OCCUR.
sheshisown~
Its not the word thats important itS the teaching......You are following a new age doctrine with no scriptural support......
You think 1 Thess says its a rapture...........
Well Matthew 24: says its not Mark 13 says its not 1 Corinthians says its not The book of Daniel says its not the seals of Revelation says its not,,,,,the shadows and types say theres not,,the overall nature of God is not to take christians out of the way.........Were going thru the fire,,,Just like the 3 young boys,in Daniel,,,,,,,it is a shadow for things to come,,,
Do you know what a biblical shadow is ??????????????????????????????
Christ said to be here working when he Returns,,,,you wanna go off playing rapture games
NOt to mention harpazo is rendered,,,, taken by force.....yeah that makes sense
:rolling
Vic C.
Member
^ C'mon bro, take a break before you get #3. ^ 
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One of the things I learned when studying Pre Wrath was that the sheep/goat judgment pertains to those alive after the tribulation/wrath. Without going too deep into the position, it teaches (and supports it with scripture) that this isn't a resurrection. No resurrection is mentioned and no resurrection can be attributed to it without rearranging and reinterpreting scripture.
This wrath is know as the Day of the Lord and the DOTL as we are shown in scripture, is tied to the remnant of Israel that is being drawn to their Messiah. We already know not all will be destroyed during the trib/wrath. The sheep/goat judgment is for those who treated or mistreated God's chosen remnant during the GT and Wrath.
Note, the verses below are pre-millennium, meaning these event happen before the 1,000 years.
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. ( ^ these are the "sheep")
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. ( ^ these are the "goats")
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
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Since this is a thread on Pre Wrath, I'd like to go back to this quote by MDO.mdo757 said:
One of the things I learned when studying Pre Wrath was that the sheep/goat judgment pertains to those alive after the tribulation/wrath. Without going too deep into the position, it teaches (and supports it with scripture) that this isn't a resurrection. No resurrection is mentioned and no resurrection can be attributed to it without rearranging and reinterpreting scripture.
This wrath is know as the Day of the Lord and the DOTL as we are shown in scripture, is tied to the remnant of Israel that is being drawn to their Messiah. We already know not all will be destroyed during the trib/wrath. The sheep/goat judgment is for those who treated or mistreated God's chosen remnant during the GT and Wrath.
Note, the verses below are pre-millennium, meaning these event happen before the 1,000 years.
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. ( ^ these are the "sheep")
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. ( ^ these are the "goats")
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)
Correct, the resurrection timing is the same timing when Christ gathers His saints at the start of the day of The Lord. Both Apostles Paul and Peter tied Christ's coming to the day of The Lord phrase in 1 Thess.5 and 2 Pet.3 with the thief in the night metaphor. Christ tied that idea of His coming as a thief with the gathering of the saints when He warned us to watch so as to not be found naked (spiritually).
And notice in John 5 the resurrection event involves TWO TYPES of resurrection, both at the same time when He comes. The unjust are going to be resurrected at the time of His coming also. ALL will go through the Milennium in resurrection bodies, including the unjust. His voice is tied to the 1 Thess.4 and 1 Cor.15 events of the sound of the trump.
Isa 25:7-9
7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.
(KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)
Correct, the resurrection timing is the same timing when Christ gathers His saints at the start of the day of The Lord. Both Apostles Paul and Peter tied Christ's coming to the day of The Lord phrase in 1 Thess.5 and 2 Pet.3 with the thief in the night metaphor. Christ tied that idea of His coming as a thief with the gathering of the saints when He warned us to watch so as to not be found naked (spiritually).
And notice in John 5 the resurrection event involves TWO TYPES of resurrection, both at the same time when He comes. The unjust are going to be resurrected at the time of His coming also. ALL will go through the Milennium in resurrection bodies, including the unjust. His voice is tied to the 1 Thess.4 and 1 Cor.15 events of the sound of the trump.
Isa 25:7-9
7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.
(KJV)
Vic C.
Member
We need to find a way to harmonize scripture:
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.