The Prodigal Son

[chessman]

Paul did say that he was afraid for the Galatians. Why would he say that? What would be so frightening?

He was afraid they’d lose their freedom from “these things” they’d been yoked to (not lose their salvation else he’d have said so) and afraid they could become partakers in the “these things” they’d been enslaved to (namely sins). Paul never said he was afraid they’d partake of God’s wrath though. Which is my point.

For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.​

Galatians 5:1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Galatians 5:1&version=LEB

 

[chessman]

Paul wrote to the faithful at Galatia and to the faithful at Ephesus.

I’v never said otherwise.

 

[Senior]

Paul was taught by the Lord during his 17 years (Gal 1:18, 2:1)
in the desert places prior to beginning his major ministry ...
to insert his dire warnings to BACs in amongst multitudes of
edifications, exhortations, encouragements in all of his epistles.

These were "somewhat hidden" so as to not upset the newer
baby believers, but could be revealed by the Holy Spirit to the
more mature believers who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

After all, the only believers who have the potential to
be saved must be led by God's Spirit (Romans 8:24).

These dire warnings were about the very real dangers of:
falling away from the faith, falling from grace,
drawing back to perdition, etc. etc.
Yes, all of these warnings were about losing salvation!
But, Satan will tell you they're about losing rewards.

 

[JLB]

Paul, never, not once, used the word “warn” or “warning” in either Galatians or Ephesians.

Repent or you will perish.

That’s a warning.


If you practice the works of the flesh, you will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Another warning.


Like I said, the more you try to explain away the truth of the scriptures, the more you expose yourself.




JLB

 

[WIP]

He was afraid they’d lose their freedom from “these things” they’d been yoked to (not lose their salvation else he’d have said so) and afraid they could become partakers in the “these things” they’d been enslaved to (namely sins). Paul never said he was afraid they’d partake of God’s wrath though. Which is my point.

For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.​

Galatians 5:1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Galatians 5:1&version=LEB

Where did Paul say he was afraid they'd lose their freedom from "these things?" I searched the NKJV and did not find the phrase "these things" as you've quoted in Galatians at all. Perhaps you're referencing another version that does?

 

[chessman]

Where did Paul say he was afraid they'd lose their freedom from "these things?"

Here:

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.​

Ephesians 5:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Ephesians 5:6&version=NKJV

And in it’s parallel passage in Galatians here:

​

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.​

Galatians 5:19-21 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Galatians 5:19-21&version=NKJV

So now let me ask you a couple of questions. If someone told you:

Like I said, the more you try to explain away the truth of the scriptures, the more you expose yourself.

1.Would that be a personal statement about “you” or a statement about someone else, in your opinion?


Compared to:
Like I said, the more they try to explain away the truth of the scriptures, the more they expose themselves.

Would that be a personal statement about “you” or a statement about someone else, in your opinion?

 

[JLB]

Here:

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.​

Ephesians 5:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Ephesians 5:6&version=NKJV

And in it’s parallel passage in Galatians here:

​

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.​

Galatians 5:19-21 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Galatians 5:19-21&version=NKJV

So now let me ask you a couple of questions. If someone told you:


1.Would that be a personal statement about “you” or a statement about someone else, in your opinion?


Compared to:
Like I said, the more they try to explain away the truth of the scriptures, the more they expose themselves.

Would that be a personal statement about “you” or a statement about someone else, in your opinion?

Actually since I was addressing what you yourself said, then there really is no “they”.


Paul plainly teaches the Church not to be partakers of God’s wrath, along with the sons of disobedience.

• Therefore do not be partakers with them.

For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:5-7





JLB

 

[lisa-in-FL]

To lisa-in-FL and JLB, thank you both for your replies in posts 52 and 54.

Lisa-in-FL. What you wrote is a great encouragement, and I agree with you on the understanding of the parable of the Pharisee and the sinner. However, whether a sinner is still saved or not though has become part of this discussion with Senior saying that habitual sin is a sign of not being saved. It is to this point that I'd like a solid response from anyone on how to over come addiction, lust, or any other habitual sin.

First, as far as I can see "habitual sin" is not a phrase used in the Bible. It doesn't seem to be a special class of sinning. It might be something a Christian calls a sin they can't overcome, but why not just call it by its name instead of giving it a little pet name like "oh its just a habit". If you are an alcoholic, say so (The AA people are on to something). If you are slothful, say so. If you are an adulterer or fornicating, or using drugs or cursing all the time, just say so (and I mean, to yourself and Jesus. You don't have to confess to us.)
Second, when we are saved we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and contrary to what some people here repeatedly will tell you - once you are made a new creation, God doesn't unmake you. The Holy Spirit won't leave you. But will you let Him drive? That's a choice you (we) have to make all day, every day. Flesh or Spirit?
This is a good explanation with great reference verses - https://www.gotquestions.org/Spirit-filled.html

(I'm going to add a disclaimer that I have to remind myself of these truths everyday. Its not easy living in this body of flesh.)

 

[JLB]

lol - no. please don't get confused by what I said. In the English language "adulterous person" is an adjective used to describe a noun and the other is just the noun - "adulterer".
In the context of the verse you are misusing, "cowardly, unbelieving" etc are adjectives used to describe the list of un-saved sinners. The key is "unbelieving" as in non-believers, who aren't followers of Christ.
Someone who is saved is not going to lose their salvation when they sin. We will face the consequences of our actions, including the damage that sin does to our testimony as a Christian, but Jesus doesn't turn his back on us and the Holy Spirit will not depart from us.

He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8


Do you believe that Christians who practice sorcery or sexual immorality, idolatry will remain saved if they don’t repent?


Do you believe Christians, who are murderers will remain saved, if they don’t repent?


Do you believe all liars refers to people who were never saved?



Here are some scriptures to consider:


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:16



Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The phrase “will not inherit the kingdom of God” means cast into the everlasting fires of hell along with the devil and his angels.


All the same things Revelation 21:8 mention.





JLB

 

[chessman]

I'm going to add a disclaimer that I have to remind myself of these truths everyday. Its not easy living in this body of flesh.

And having arisen, he went to his father. But he still being far distant, his father saw him and felt-deep-feelings [of love]. And having run, he fell upon his neck and kissed him.​

Luke 15:20 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 15:20&version=DLNT

Don’t be discouraged Lisa, you’ll get new flesh one day and live easier (just like we all will). Sons of God are not sons of disobedience nor are believers unbelievers.

The Father loves (is not wrathful) all His sons; even the Prodigal (wasteful, selfish) ones who are afar off from Him AND the angry, greedy, and prideful ones:

But the one, having responded, said to his father, ‘Behold— I am slaving for you for so many years, and I never disregarded your command. And you never gave me a goat in order that I might celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours came— the one having devoured your property with prostitutes— you slaughtered the fatted calf for him!’​

Luke 15:29-30 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 15:29-30&version=DLNT

You are spot-on right. Revelation 21:7-8 (as does the Galatians and Ephesians passages) quite literally contrasts (“but”) sons of God with those that are “unbelieving” (non-believers).

Yet somehow that fact gets ‘overlooked’ by some brothers. One has to wonder about a brother (who ‘claims’ not to have broken any of his Fathers commands himself) resentment toward his other brother receiving so much Grave and Mercy.

Just like the Rev, Gal and Eph passages, 1 John 3:16 is clearly contrasting the sons of God with sons of disobedience (Cain and Able) yet that too somehow gets ‘overlooked’:

Not as Cain. He was of the evil one, and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his works were evil, but the ones of his brother were righteous. And do not be marveling, brothers, if the world hates you! We know that we have passed from death into life because we are loving the brothers. The one not loving is abiding in death.​

1 John 3:12-14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 John 3:12-14&version=DLNT

Cain was never a Christian brother just like the unbelievers are not believers (that’s literally what the word means). Cain was an “of the world” brother to Able but never a born of God brother to him.

 

[JLB]

Don’t be discouraged Lisa, you’ll get new flesh one day and live easier (just like we all will). Sons of God are not sons of disobedience nor are believers unbelievers.

Christians who practice the same things as the sons of disobedience will partake of the same consequences of God’s wrath.

• Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:6-7


Irrefutable.




JLB

 

[chessman]

Irrefutable

No verse of the Bible says

Christians who practice the same things as the sons of disobedience will partake of the same consequences of God’s wrath.

 

[JLB]

No verse of the Bible says

What is it Paul is teaching us not to partake of, along with the sons of disobedience?

God’s wrath.

• Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:6-7




JLB

 

[chessman]

What is it Paul is teaching us not to partake of, along with the sons of disobedience?

Asked and answered already.
Sins! Verbs! Actions of people (not of God).

God’s wrath.

Incorrect per the evidence given already.
God’s Wrath is, well God’s, a noun. A thing that will “fall upon” (not done by) the sons of disobedience.

Simple grammar.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

First, as far as I can see "habitual sin" is not a phrase used in the Bible. It doesn't seem to be a special class of sinning. It might be something a Christian calls a sin they can't overcome, but why not just call it by its name instead of giving it a little pet name like "oh its just a habit". If you are an alcoholic, say so (The AA people are on to something). If you are slothful, say so. If you are an adulterer or fornicating, or using drugs or cursing all the time, just say so (and I mean, to yourself and Jesus. You don't have to confess to us.)
Second, when we are saved we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and contrary to what some people here repeatedly will tell you - once you are made a new creation, God doesn't unmake you. The Holy Spirit won't leave you. But will you let Him drive? That's a choice you (we) have to make all day, every day. Flesh or Spirit?
This is a good explanation with great reference verses - https://www.gotquestions.org/Spirit-filled.html

(I'm going to add a disclaimer that I have to remind myself of these truths everyday. Its not easy living in this body of flesh.)

I wasn't trying to give it an excuse like saying "it's just a habit." The term was used before by Senior. It's to employ sins that we don't let go of, like addictions that we hold on to. That said, I agree that habitual isn't a term in the bible. A more accurate term I think is that unrepentant sin is the cause to lose salvation. Habitual sinning is just a type of unrepentant sinning that has become the focus. At least that's my take on it.

Thanks for the link. There's issues with the perspectives of saved by belief only, as opposed to being able to lose salvation. Both have points that get re-addressed often without agreeing on a conclusion. So that's why I posted the thought of how to conquer our sins. How to get out of addictions and help each other out. Save each other from our sinning. This should be a point worth focusing on regardless if it counts for our salvation or not.

A second thought though, is something from the link. Believers receive the Holy Spirit, as soon as they believe. It's a guarantee of the promises to come. The problem with this is that I often don't know what is from the Holy Spirit, and what isn't . I doubt I'm alone on this, and have heard of many people leave their Christian roots because they haven't found God or recognize His influence through the Holy Spirit, or through Angels, or through answered prayers. The issue I have is knowing if we have the Holy Spirit or not. For at least me I have faith in God, but I don't know if I have the Holy Spirit in me.

Sorry for the ramble. Guess the two points I'd like more focus on in Christian communities is to help each other out of sins, as well as to recognize what is from the Holy Spirit, or even how to connect and hear from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Did you choose to be baptized in water, or were you forced?


The baptism with the Holy Spirit comes through those who God has chosen to administer this gift, or it can come sovereignly upon a person.


Here is one example -


Therefore those who were scattered went everywhere preaching the word. Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them. And the multitudes with one accord heeded the things spoken by Philip, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. For unclean spirits, crying with a loud voice, came out of many who were possessed; and many who were paralyzed and lame were healed. And there was great joy in that city. Acts 8:4-8


Phillip has great success preaching the gospel and getting people saved, casting out devils, healing the sick and lame, even those who were paralyzed.

• However, when it came to the baptism with the Holy Spirit -

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” Acts 8:14-19

• they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.

• For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

• Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

• when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given

What did Simon see?





JLB

I was baptized by my choice. I was convicted that I should be baptized by some verses I read. However, when I got baptized it wasn't with the intent to turn from my sins but to fulfill what Jesus would expect of me. Because of this I've since wondered if the baptism counts or not.

As for being baptized by the spirit, I'm not trying to be like Simon to gain even more power or have some supernatural control. Those would be nice and some of them like healing others or speaking and understanding in tongues would be something to lift my heart. The real concern though for me is a verse that says that unless you are born again of the spirit you are not saved. Or other verses that say that if a person doesn't have the Holy Spirit in them, then they really aren't saved. The issue is I don't know if I am saved or not. And the big qualifier to be saved, to have the Holy Spirit, is not something in my control or anyone else's. It's sone thing God gives. Being baptized and having the Holy Spirit are points that leave me without confidance in my own salvation or even if I have faith or some counterfeit that fools me. In spit of these doubts I have to hold hope. Hope in God, with or without a confidence in my own salvation.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Please refer to this thread ...
http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...-understand-the-2-holy-spirit-baptisms.78323/
.

I'll read it there and if I have more to add I'll do it there.

 

[chessman]

I agree that habitual isn't a term in the bible.

correct

A more accurate term I think is that unrepentant sin is the cause to lose salvation.

In what verse are you referring to this “lose of salvation” accuracy?

Believers receive the Holy Spirit, as soon as they believe.

Correct.

The issue I have is knowing if we have the Holy Spirit or not.

Do you have a desire in your heart to repent of your sins???

Yes = you have received the Holy Spirit
No = you have not received the Holy Spirit

Evidence:

But I tell you the truth— it is better for you that I go away. For if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send Him to you. And having come, that One will convict the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment—​

John 16:7-8 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 16:7-8&version=DLNT

Look at how the Holy Spirit effected Paul’s heart:

The saying is trustworthy and worthy of full acceptance— that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am foremost.​

1 Timothy 1:15 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 1:15&version=DLNT

Christ saves sinners. Paul was convinced he was foremost at it.

 

[JLB]

Asked and answered already.
Sins! Verbs! Actions of people (not of God).


Incorrect per the evidence given already.
God’s Wrath is, well God’s, a noun. A thing that will “fall upon” (not done by) the sons of disobedience.

Simple grammar.

Makes zero sense.


For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:5-7

• because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

• Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Paul writing to the church in Ephesus, teaches them not to be partakers of the wrath of God, that comes upon the sons of disobedience, by doing “these things” that they do.


He teaches the same thing to the Church at Corinth and Galatia.



Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21



Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


The common warning in all three passages is “will not inherit the kingdom of God”; no inheritance in the kingdom.


Those who do not inherit the kingdom of God, will incur the wrath of God, which is to be cast into the everlasting fire along with the devil and his angels.


As it is written -


Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34


Those who do not inherit the kingdom will hear these awful words, from the Lord -

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41



JLB

 

[JLB]

I was baptized by my choice. I was convicted that I should be baptized by some verses I read. However, when I got baptized it wasn't with the intent to turn from my sins but to fulfill what Jesus would expect of me.

Jesus expects us to turn to Him, in so doing He forgives our sins.

Now comes the process....



JLB