The Pros & Cons of Preterism

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I wasn't making a doctrinal statement, only suggesting that whatever God's plan is, we're part of it and need to keep at it whether He returns now or in a thousand years from now.

My bad Stormcrow. I was not directly addressing your post with my "None of that addresses the issue I posed at the end of my last post about where that leaves us if in fact Jesus "raptured" his saints in the 1st century at his parousia" comment. I was just saying that what I had written up to that point did not address that issue. Sorry if that was confusing.

The church has been through much in 2,000 years. The "gates of hell" indeed have not prevailed against it. Beyond that, I believe whatever happens in the future the church will continue to prevail.

Peace. Out.

As far as the church's journey, no one can accurately say there hasn't been one, but that does not mean that the church and Jesus' called ones are one and the same. Now focusing on the comment Jesus made about the "gates of hell," I believe that it is immortant to understand what that meant. the gates of hell really equals the gates of Hades which means that the grave and DEATH would not prevail against Jesus' congregation (Ekklesia).
The comment did not mean that Jesus would have a latter "church" institution that would go through "hell and back" and survive, it meant that Jesus' congregation would prevail over death.

 

[warhorse]

what part of this was fullfilled?,cause as far as I know no one
has been rewarded yet.

Let me clarify. no Jesus has not returned yet. but John did witness it and record it with the book of revelation. thus Jesus statement was accurately fullfilled without demanding a 1st century return.

 

[reba]

Just as there are differences in what folks believe about the timing of rapture, or other topics there are differences in the beliefs of preterists.

 

[jasoncran]

The same exists for Hindus, Buddhists and Muslims, Mormons and Universalists. Are they following the right path?

first off, she didnt say anything about full preterism. she was stating on partial preterism

now then with out further ado

and isnt there much contraversy on darby and schofield? i cant at present find any really objective site on them. eithers it the futurists hailing them or the preterists scorning them.

at any rate, unless one isnt a full preterists neither view is heresy.

 

[jasoncran]

Your opinion, of course.

so being a partial preterist is evil to you?
try actually reading the bible and taking and setting aside the pre-concieved notions taught to you.

i wasnt a christian until 23 and didnt believe in any man entering heaven, nor the rapture and also the trinity and aslo isreal being in prophecy.

all these i came to buy primarily opening the book for myself.yes bible studies helped but really one or three verses to support the entire pre-trib doctrine doesnt mean its the case. that is why i started reading for myself and honestly its beyond me and i leave it up to God as many commentaries are good and others are not and each have stregths and weakeness. like vic said we ought not to be dogmatic. no position is perfect.

 

[Alabaster]

so being a partial preterist is evil to you?
try actually reading the bible and taking and setting aside the pre-concieved notions taught to you.

i wasnt a christian until 23 and didnt believe in any man entering heaven, nor the rapture and also the trinity and aslo isreal being in prophecy.

all these i came to buy primarily opening the book for myself.yes bible studies helped but really one or three verses to support the entire pre-trib doctrine doesnt mean its the case. that is why i started reading for myself and honestly its beyond me and i leave it up to God as many commentaries are good and others are not and each have stregths and weakeness. like vic said we ought not to be dogmatic. no position is perfect.

I read for myself, and I also do what God requires---availing myself of Godly and GOOD and GIFTED teachers of the Word.

There is not always virtue in claiming one has studied a matter for oneself. One tends to rely on one;s own understanding. The Body needs each other for correction and BALANCE.

 

[warhorse]

so being a partial preterist is evil to you?
try actually reading the bible and taking and setting aside the pre-concieved notions taught to you.

i wasnt a christian until 23 and didnt believe in any man entering heaven, nor the rapture and also the trinity and aslo isreal being in prophecy.

all these i came to buy primarily opening the book for myself.yes bible studies helped but really one or three verses to support the entire pre-trib doctrine doesnt mean its the case. that is why i started reading for myself and honestly its beyond me and i leave it up to God as many commentaries are good and others are not and each have stregths and weakeness. like vic said we ought not to be dogmatic. no position is perfect.

Its been my experiance that while we all like to chat and discuss biblical concepts or arguments, very few opinions are actually changed here. Without a trainable heart we cant learn and we tend to shut down and raise our shields the second someone speaks contrary to what we already believe. Alabaster will have to come to terms with dispy's contradictions when she simply studies them for herself.

 

[jasoncran]

I read for myself, and I also do what God requires---availing myself of Godly and GOOD and GIFTED teachers of the Word.

There is not always virtue in claiming one has studied a matter for oneself. One tends to rely on one;s own understanding. The Body needs each other for correction and BALANCE.

few christians sadly can even defend the basics these days. and few pastors have the time to really dig that deep.eschatology isnt so simple,and who said i was implying to doing it solo?

btw i do have the gift to teach. and also calling whenever the lord leads to pastor.so YOU assumed that i dont double check myself?just because hey three people prayed and God showed up and people fall out means that the eschatology is perfect.the disciples did miracles and yet they had no clue and they had christ doing miracles in front of them and look at how immature they were.

i have seen my pastor make a big mistake on the parable of the fig tree. the fig tree there has nothing to do with isreal. but rather the times of coming of the lord. neither does the bible say that earthquakes increase but that comes from the hal lindsey fool and his rants and foolish ideas.(the man is a quack and any man that left his wife for another isnt a prophet and while forgivible teaching and pastoring should be slowly something that he should earn trust in)

i even could correct him on the right verses on isreal in the end times. its in ezekiel 37.but i sense that the pastor means well and i have said somethings and let him look at it. if the spirit says something it will change. he mentioned the nwo one day and i asked him the players, and he didnt tell me.

i will state something on the parable and see what he says.

 

[Alabaster]

You should listen to your pastor more.

 

[jasoncran]

really? despite the data? the data of seisometers says the opposite! the earth quakes have had spurts of intensity but overall decreased.

that is like saying that the sky is pink to me because some verse says it is and that verse has no direct way of saying it. that verse beginning of sorrows doesnt necessarily mean that the expecation will be that the earthquakes would increase only that they would be there. in fact in the times of the apostles the earthquakes in some regions are more intense.google pompeii and herculeam and when that happpened.

 

[Alabaster]

Luke 21:11 NLT
There will be great earthquakes, and there will be famines and plagues in many lands, and there will be terrifying things and great miraculous signs from heaven.


Psalm 46:2 NLT
So we will not fear when earthquakes come
and the mountains crumble into the sea.


Matthew 24:7 NLT
Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in many parts of the world.


Mark 13:8 NLT
Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in many parts of the world, as well as famines. But this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come.

 

[jasoncran]

Luke 21:11 NLT
There will be great earthquakes, and there will be famines and plagues in many lands, and there will be terrifying things and great miraculous signs from heaven.


Psalm 46:2 NLT
So we will not fear when earthquakes come
and the mountains crumble into the sea.


Matthew 24:7 NLT
Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in many parts of the world.


Mark 13:8 NLT
Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in many parts of the world, as well as famines. But this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come.

you are on. what is the baseline reference to great verse a normal earthquake? what is normal to pjt may be too much for you.keep in mind that earthquakes are always occuring in the world and havesnt stopped and some are never felt.

history in america has shown these earthquakes
Largest Earthquakes in the United States
and also this on the past with the missippi and she went in reverse.and these happened before the rise of Isreal.

Historic Earthquakes

have not noticed the range is very narrow? 7.7 to 9 in the u.s.?of course there are
others that need be taken in, and i know that but the point here whats the baseline? is this now the baseline?japans was an 8.9 with sunami.

 

[reba]

When have these things not be so?

Luke 21:11 NLT
There will be great earthquakes, and there will be famines and plagues in many lands, and there will be terrifying things and great miraculous signs from heaven.


Psalm 46:2 NLT
So we will not fear when earthquakes come
and the mountains crumble into the sea.


Matthew 24:7 NLT
Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in many parts of the world.


Mark 13:8 NLT
Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in many parts of the world, as well as famines. But this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come.

 

[Stormcrow]

There is not always virtue in claiming one has studied a matter for oneself. One tends to rely on one;s own understanding. The Body needs each other for correction and BALANCE.

I certainly agree with that, but I'm also wondering how you reconcile that view with this one you posted here:

The truth is found in Scripture, and the only thing we need to do is ask Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to our spirits, and search the WORD. He will.

Just wondering.

 

[Alabaster]

I certainly agree with that, but I'm also wondering how you reconcile that view with this one you posted here:



Just wondering.

If you do NOT receive from the leaders God sends you, you won't hear from God clearly, either, as there is a problem with independence.

The word is our authority and Holy Spirit is our teacher, but He wotks through those SO GIFTED and PLACED there for us. Be a Berean and search the Scriptures to see if what they say is true.

 

[Stormcrow]

but He wotks through those SO GIFTED and PLACED there for us.

But that's not what you wrote in your earlier post. You wrote:

...the only thing we need to do is ask Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to our spirits, and search the WORD.

Are you now saying that's not true?

"Why the two orders, Colonel Jessup?!?" :D

(Sorry, a little "A Few Good Men" reference there!)

 

[Alabaster]

Yep, all we need is the word of God. He uses it to speak the truth to us. He also uses it in the ministry of others.

All truth is perceived by the work of the Holy Spirit. There is nothing amiss in what I have said.

Why are you making such a big deal about it?

 

[Stormcrow]

Why are you making such a big deal about it?

Because you did when first you chided me for using extra-biblical sources to help study the Bible, then when you told Jasoncran that one has to depend on others to discern truth!

You don't see the contradiction in those two positions?

I don't want to derail this thread, but telling me - essentially - self study and the Holy Spirit are all we need to find truth" and then chiding Jasoncran for doing EXACTLY that suggests that you're not arguing from a position of principle.

In other words, it appears that you're willing to write anything to win the "argument of the minute" while disregarding what you've written before.

It's difficult to discuss things reasonably with someone who keeps moving the goal posts and changing their position from one discussion to the next.

Be careful and consistent with your absolute statements, then no one will be able to challenge you for your lack of consistency.

(And that goes for everybody, including yours truly!) :yes

For what it's worth.

 

[jasoncran]

stormcrow, what alabaster is doing is at times what i have observed in churches by some members. if the pastor cherry picks a verse and it make sense on the surface they buy it. any christian should dig deep and deeper into the word and then decide based on what the hs has said. i have been challenged by a pastor on my mid trib position as he is a pre trib. i will have to look more but the assumption he has also has holes.

 

[warhorse]

stormcrow, what alabaster is doing is at times what i have observed in churches by some members. if the pastor cherry picks a verse and it make sense on the surface they buy it. any christian should dig deep and deeper into the word and then decide based on what the hs has said. i have been challenged by a pastor on my mid trib position as he is a pre trib. i will have to look more but the assumption he has also has holes.

i went to my pastor in love privatly and approached him on pre-trib, we had a great conversation, I respect him greatly. He has not yet changed his position but i see some movement from his sermons, as now he is teaching that we as christians will/do face tribulation.