The rapture of the Church

[n2thelight]

lecoop

I have had two pen pals from Israel, two young ladies since they were 15 years old. They are now both in the military. They told me something one day that shocked me. In school, they had courses on the NEW TESTAMENT!!!! (All Except Revelation.) I asked them again and again to make sure I understood correctly.

Yes, they know what is in the New Testament!

Of course, it is the epistiles, especially Paul's, that are written to the Gentile church. Therefore, no, we are not kidding you. The Olivet Discourse covers the entire church age, but is directed, for the most part, to Israel, (Descendants of Jacob). Then it covers the second half of the 70th week of Daniel, and finally, Jesus' second coming. This part is directed straight to those living in Israel at that time. They will see the abomination and they will flee.

Here you go with that seperation again,I feel Ive explained this in an earlier post which you did'nt respond to.

The Bible is written to all that will read and understand,not this part for some and this part for others.
satan is coming to deceive the whole world,that is what the tribulation is all about,the deception of satan pretending to be Christ.

That was Christ and Pauls warning that you not be deceived,and if you think you won't be here,you will be deceived

Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."

This is the number one warning, "Take heed that no man deceive you." Deception will be the foremost thing to guard against in the latter days, that will consummate the end of this age. This means that these events will not happen all at one time, but will take place over a period of time. These warnings or signs that Jesus is about to give us, are the seven seals that are given us in the Book of Revelation.

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

The rapture is nothing short of deception

 

[lecoop]

"We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground.

It is commendable that you believe in the rapture.

Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies.

It is not commendable that you confuse the "last trump" with the 7th trump. It is not commendable that you ignore John 14, or attempt to spiritualize it.

Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.

Again, you are confusing the 7th trumpet with the last trump.

Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him.

You have to rewrite and/or re-arrange Revelation to come up with this idea. The rest of us know that Jesus returns after the 7th vial, about 3 1/2 years after the 7th trumpet. Remember Jesus on the white horse? Remember what chapter John tells us about this? For the readers, always remember: Any doctrine that must re-arrange the chornology of Revelation is immediately suspect, and will be proven wrong.

"Mortal" means "liable to die" in the Greek. At the last trump the Christians who stand against Satan, and his system, will have their immortality, however, those who fall for Antichrist and his system, will have to wait until after the 1000 years. "Corruptible into incorruption" is refering to the flesh body changing into the body such as the angels have, a spiritual body. Whereas the eternal condition of the soul is only extended to those who have not yielded to the Antichrist, For they only are the victors at the seventh trump. You put on immortality through Christ who set the way.

Once again you confuse the "last trump" with the 7th trump. At the last trump , those looking for His coming will be caught up into the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air." At the 7th trump, the abomination will take place, and soon after, the mark will be set up and enforced.

Going back to I Thessalonians 4:15, we know when this will come to pass. It will be "at the last trump", when the alive in Christ are "changed", not flying away.

If we are caught up into the clouds, we are "flying." You cannot walk up into the clouds.

The Lord is going to descend, at the seventh trump [the last trump]. Why will the dead in Christ rise first? Because they are already there, and with Him. All we have to do now is go to the book of Revelation, and find out in detail when this will be. We find out what events will occur just prior to this seventh trump sounding, and then when we see these certain events taking place before our eyes, we will know our Lord will return to earth next. Then the trump will sound, and the gathering will take place, and we will be changed from our flesh bodies to our spiritual bodies. And not one day before.

You really are confused between "Last" and "seventh." I already found out that the "last trump" and the catching away will take place at the 6th seal. I know that because John sees the church in heaven, very shortly after that 6th seal. From Matthew, we know that earthquakes and resurrections seem to happen at the same time. Anyone that can read, can read that Jesus descends on the white horse, AFTER the 7th vial, not at the 7th trumpet.

There is no FLY AWAY, no dodging of the tribulation of the Antichrist and his system's deceptions, but Christ will come and establish His kingdom on earth, and you will see it in your spiritual body. Got it?

No! One cannot walk up into the clouds, unless you are climbing a tall mountain. Therefore, we MUST fly.

Now what about the clouds, and the air? The "clouds" are in reference to a large gathering of people, as Paul used else where also. While the "air" spoken of here, in the Greek is "breath of life"; we will meet Jesus Christ in our "breath of life bodies, or spiritual bodies". That is the mystery Paul spoke of in I Corinthians 15:50-54.

You are really confused. What is the air in question here?

You even have trouble with simple, three letter words, such as "air." *edited by mod* Where are the clouds? Of course, the clouds are in the air.

Act 22:23 And as they cried out, and cast off [their] clothes, and threw dust into the air,

It is the same air that you through dust into. Can you throw dust into the "breath of life?"

1Cr 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

Does a shadow boxer beat the "breath of life?" That is silly! No, he beats the air in front of him.

1Cr 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

Where do the sound waves from your voice box and mouth go to? Of course, out into the air. The same air that carries those sound waves to listening ears. Do we speak into the "breath of life?" That is just someone stretching, trying to make the bible mean what it does not.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Where does the devil dwell? in the "breath of life?" No, he dwells in the atmosphere surrounding this planet.

Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

What do we look through to see the sun? Do we look through the "breath of life?" How much stretching do you want to do? Do you think the readers are the dullest knives in the drawer? I think not. No, we look through the air around us; the atmosphere surrounding this planet. Where does the smoke from a chimney go? Into the "breath of life?" No, up into the air.

Rev 16:17 ¶ And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Is this vial going to be poured out into the "breath of life?" No, into the atmosphere.

There is no rapture in those verses

Not for you. But for pretribbers, and anyone that will not twist the scriptures, it is there.

I Thessalonians 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Je'-sus, which delivered us from the wrath to come

Who is God's wrath directed against? His enemies. If you have accepted God [Jesus Christ], and have faith in Him, you are no longer an enemy of God, but one of His children. God is going to turn His real wrath on His enemies. However, God's protection will also extend to His children, as He gave in Daniel 3:21-25 to Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego in the fiery furnace. This will be like the type of God's protection for His own children when the Babylon of the end times comes.

Fine, except this is not what God has in mind this time. Those that are looking for His coming, will be in heaven, rejoicing, while the 70th week is going on done here.

God is in total control at all times, and in all places, for He keeps His Word. Your reliance on His ability to keep His Word, and fulfill His promises are what is called "faith". Don't get carried away with the doomsayers of today, they are the ones making plans and laws that go opposite to God's Word. God is in control.

If you are saying that God has anything to do with a young mother dying of cancer and leaving her kids without a mother, you are sadly mistaken. There is much that takes place on earth, that God hates, and He has nothing to do with it.

Jesus Himself, while on this earth said in Luke 21:12-17, that you will be delivered up to give answer in the "synagogues of Satan" [the churches of today], and that even your family and friends will betray you. "Ye shall be hated of all men for My Name sake". You know it will happen to us, because we are living in the "times and season" of the last generation, and He is talking to "His elect" in this generation. He is not talking to a pack of birds about to fly away.

He is certainly not speaking to the church, for we will indeed fly away. Just try walking up into the clouds! You know, the clouds in the air, where the dust is thrown, where the shadow boxer boxes, where you voice goes after you speak, where the devil dwells, and where the smoke arises into. We will indeed fly up, into the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and will continue on up into the third heaven.

Then Jesus said; "But their shall not an hair of your head perish." [Luke 21:18] Jesus then tells us where and how it comes about. "In your patience possess ye your souls." [Luke 21:19] We will win through our patience on waiting for the True Christ. Not jumping on the band wagon of the Antichrist, who will come first. If you think you will fly out first, you do not have that patience and you will take Satan [Antichrist] as your savior, Jesus said!

You are truely confused! I already have a savior, thank you! His name is Jesus - the very same one that I will meet in the air. The very same one that will show me my mansion. Sorry, but those that are looking for Jesus coming, will not be concerned with the beast of chapter 13.

I Thessalonians 5:23 "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

This is at the second coming.no rapturwe

Which coming? He is "coming" to meet us in the air - you know - the same air that the clouds float in. Just go outside and look up at the clouds, and that should take away any confusion.

2 Thes 2:3 Apostasia meaning departure

Apostasia,does not mean departure,it means falling away,and the falling away at that time will be falling from the truth

Definition from strongs concordance

Lexicon Results for apostasia (Strong's G646) Greek for G646 ἀποστασία Transliteration
apostasia
Pronunciation

ä-po-stä-sē'-ä (Key)

Part of Speech
feminine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

feminine of the same as G647

TDNT Reference
1:513,88
Vines
View Entry


Outline of Biblical Usage 1) a falling away, defection, apostasy


Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count  Total: 2 AV  to forsake + 575 1, falling away 1 Thayer's Lexicon (Help)

A falling away deception from true religion

You have to add meaning to say what the departure is from. It is not in the original text.


Coop

 

[n2thelight]

lecoop

The 7th trump is the last trump

 

[Vic C.]

Is the seventh trumpet of Revelation blown by God... or an angel?

I ask because 1 Thessalonians 4:16 says it is the trump of God. How does this compare to the three trumps of God relating to the Jewish festivals?

 

[Vic C.]

Here, I will post this for like , the 10th. time.

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l002.htm

The Last Trump

"We cannot go to the Book of Revelation and say that the voice of the seventh angel (Revelation 11:15) is the last trump. In the first century, the last trump (shofar) meant a specific day in the year. In Judaism, there are three trumpets (shofarim) that have a name. They are the first trump, the last trump, and the great trump. Each one of these trumpets indicates a specific day in the Jewish year. The first trump is blown on the Feast of Shavuot (Pentecost) (Exodus [Shemot] 19:19). It proclaimed that G-d had betrothed Himself to Israel. The last trump is synonymous with Rosh HaShanah, according to Theodore Gaster in his book, Festivals of the Jewish Year, in his chapter on Rosh HaShanah. Herman Kieval also states the same thing in his book, The High Holy Days (Volume I, Rosh HaShanah, Chapter 5, Footnote 11), in the chapter on the shofar. The great trumpet is blown on Yom Kippur, which will herald the return of the Messiah Yeshua back to earth (Matthew [Mattityahu] 24:31)."

(Hebraic Heritage Ministries, http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2175/)

(Lev 23:24 KJV) Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

(Num 29:1 KJV) And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you.

According to Num 10:10, Israel was to blow a trumpet at the beginning of each month. Since the Mosaic festival year was seven months long, the seventh month (Tishri) was the last month for a festival trumpet. This day, the first day of Tishri, which was the start of the Jewish civil year, was known as Rosh haShanah (the Feast of Trumpets or the Day of Trumpets). "The last month in the seven months' series was always sounded on this New Moon Day. This made it the final trumpets' day." (Ernest L. Martin, The Star that Astonished the World, (c)1996, pg 95)

Martin further signifies this day by relying on the work of Theodor Gaster and his book titled "Festivals of the Jewish Year." It is stated that early Jews recognized the Day of Trumpets as a type of memorial day. More than our modern versions of the holiday, it was instead a day that was symbolic of the time "when the dead return to rejoin their descendants at the beginning of the year." Martin also quotes Gaster in saying that this was "the time that became a symbol of the Last Trump." (Martin, pg 96)

(1 Cor 15:52 KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

(1 Th 4:16 KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

It is quite possible that Paul, being Jewish himself and surely knowledgeable of the Jewish feasts and customs, was making a symbolic reference to this time of year -- the Day of Trumpets. "The 'Last Trump' of the early Jews was when the dead were remembered. And to Paul the 'Last Trump' was the time for Jesus' second advent and the resurrection of the dead." (Martin, pg 96).

 

[lecoop]

lecoop

The 7th trump is the last trump

It is certainly the last of the seven!

Coop

 

[n2thelight]

lecoop

It is commendable that you believe in the rapture.

What ever gave you that idea?

Again, you are confusing the 7th trumpet with the last trump.

How can you say that the 7th trump is not the last,its so ovious
I will assume that we both know the first 6 trumps,so since you say the 7th is not the last,where are the other trumps mentioned before the last one?

The mere fact that there are no more trumps mentoined after the 7th shoild be ovious it is what it is,the last one,period

 

[n2thelight]

lecoop

Lets see what happens at the 7th trump

Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

How can you read this verse and say the 7th trump is not the last,this verse clearly says that at that time the kingdoms of this world becomes the kingdom of Christ.

This happens at the last trump,period

Now lets look at the 7th vial and it should be ovious that they happen around the same time,not years later

Revelation 16:17 "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done."

so simple

 

[lecoop]

lecoop




How can you say that the 7th trump is not the last,its so ovious
I will assume that we both know the first 6 trumps,so since you say the 7th is not the last,where are the other trumps mentioned before the last one?

The mere fact that there are no more trumps mentoined after the 7th shoild be ovious it is what it is,the last one,period

Of course the 7th trumpet in Revelation is the last of the seven. Of that there is no question. However, there are different "last" trumpets.

Numbers 29:1
And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you.

Notice, on one particular day, trumpets are to be blown. I should be obvious that towards the end of this day, the last trumpet (of that day) will be blown.

Leviticus 25:9
Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.

AGain, on a certain day, trumpet blasts would have been sounded throughout the land. Again, it is obvious that one of these trumpet blasts will be the last trumpet blast of that special day.

For how long would these special days of trumpet blowings last? How many years would Israel do this?

Numbers 10:8
And the sons of Aaron, the priests, shall blow with the trumpets; and they shall be to you for an ordinance for ever throughout your generations.

It is then, without question, that during Paul's say, the Jews were still having these special days, such as the feast of trumpets.

There is simply no reason then, to link Paul's "last trump" with the 7th trump of Revelation. It does not fit.

Coop

 

[Vic C.]

Awesome Coop, I see we're on the same page, considering all of scripture, combined with what I posted at the end of the last page.

Onelove, maybe you missed my last two posts?

The Last Trump of God is associated with Rosh Hashanah. 8-)

 

[lecoop]

Awesome Coop, I see we're on the same page, considering all of scripture, combined with what I posted at the end of the last page.

Onelove, maybe you missed my last two posts?

The Last Trump of God is associated with Rosh Hashanah. 8-)

On this, we are surely on the same page!

Coop

 

[n2thelight]

lecoop

Of course the 7th trumpet in Revelation is the last of the seven. Of that there is no question. However, there are different "last" trumpets.

Did you not notice what happens at the sounding of the 7th trump?

Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Again, at the sounding of this trump,this age is over,Christ kingdom starts,there are no more trumps after this one.

This alaigns perfectly with what Paul said about the last trump

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

This happens at the sounding of the last trump,which is the 7th

Matthew 24:31 "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Again this is when Christ returns not my words but His,this great trumpet is the same as the 7th,because this is when Christ establishes His kingdom.

So if Christ establishes His Kingdom at the 7th trump which He does,how can this not be the last one?

How can you not see that?

 

[n2thelight]

vic

Onelove, maybe you missed my last two posts?

No I did'nt miss them,I just found it to be irrelevant

The fact remains,no matter how many other trumps were blown throughout history,the 7th is and will be the last one blown.

 

[Vic C.]

You'll get no argument from me... because it's just not worth arguing over, onelove.

 

[lecoop]

You'll get no argument from me... because it's just not worth arguing over, onelove.

:smt043

Good one, vic!

Coop

 

[sisterchristian]

Wow sister, you have an understanding of Pre Wrath? Have you read any of Van Kampen or Rosenthal? Are you familar with Rev. Charles Cooper, Gary Vaterlaus and this site? http://www.solagroup.org/ The position does haver a few kinks but before Van Kampen died, he encouraged his "students" to work thjings out for themselves, according to Scripture.

You are aware that the Pre Wrath position sees Michael as the Restrainer and not the HS. It is a very interesting concept based on a Bible interpretation by a well known and revered Jewish scholar from the 10th. or 11th. century. His name is Rashi.

My understanding of Pre wrath is from 1 thess 4:14-17, and 1 corin.15:51-57, 1 thess 5:9 says "God hath not appointed us to wrath" (KJV). Rev.3:10 is also an indication that the church will not suffer the terrible days of the tribulation. Or are you referring to the wrath from the 6th seal being opened before the 7th seal When men will try to take hide in the mountains and in holes underground?

 

[Vic C.]

My understanding of Pre wrath is from 1 thess 4:14-17, and 1 corin.15:51-57, 1 thess 5:9 says "God hath not appointed us to wrath" (KJV). Rev.3:10 is also an indication that the church will not suffer the terrible days of the tribulation. Or are you referring to the wrath from the 6th seal being opened before the 7th seal When men will try to take hide in the mountains and in holes underground?

My whole position on End Times hinges on 1 thess 5:9

Yes. The 6th seal Wrath is where PreWrath sees the harpazo.

Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

I'm beginning to believe the first five seals have either come to pass or are happening as we speak... or both. :-D

Revelation 3:10 is an intereresting verse. There is argumant as to what the word "keep" means in Rev 3:10

3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Some see this as a "rapture" verse, saying that keep really means "remove". :o I see it as a promise of protection for the true Church as they go through tribulation. I also see the Great Trib as a two event period. One event being the persecution of God's people by antichrist and his followers.

The other event being God's Wrath against Satan and his followers. But since I hold to some of the Reformer's historicism beliefs, I believe the 70th. week has already passed. So, I don't box the events above into a neat, little seven year period. I do see an emerging false fold of [cough] believers, the apostasia... and a future revealing of Antichrist that sets off an unprecedented persecution of believers, followed by The Wrath.

How's that for a jigsaw puzzle! LOL It all fits well for me though.

 

[sisterchristian]

[Some see this as a "rapture" verse, saying that keep really means "remove". :o I see it as a promise of protection for the true Church as they go through tribulation. I also see the Great Trib as a two event period. One event being the persecution of God's people by antichrist and his followers.

The other event being God's Wrath against Satan and his followers.

So you believe that you will go through the whole tribulation period or maybe just the first half of the 7 years? Because I believe the first half will seem very peaceful and great, and then the second half is when the Anti Christ will start revealing his TRUE colors to everyone. But I don't plan on being here for either! :wink:

 

[lecoop]

My whole position on End Times hinges on 1 thess 5:9

Yes. The 6th seal Wrath is where PreWrath sees the harpazo.

Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

I'm beginning to believe the first five seals have either come to pass or are happening as we speak... or both. :-D

Revelation 3:10 is an intereresting verse. There is argumant as to what the word "keep" means in Rev 3:10

3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Some see this as a "rapture" verse, saying that keep really means "remove". :o I see it as a promise of protection for the true Church as they go through tribulation. I also see the Great Trib as a two event period. One event being the persecution of God's people by antichrist and his followers.

The other event being God's Wrath against Satan and his followers. But since I hold to some of the Reformer's historicism beliefs, I believe the 70th. week has already passed. So, I don't box the events above into a neat, little seven year period. I do see an emerging false fold of [cough] believers, the apostasia... and a future revealing of Antichrist that sets off an unprecedented persecution of believers, followed by The Wrath.

How's that for a jigsaw puzzle! LOL It all fits well for me though.

Very interesting, Vic, now that you have laid it out so clearly. All you lack now is understanding of when the "70th week" starts! :smt043 (sorry, but I felt the need for one of my rollie friends!)


Apparently, we both see the rapture at the mighty earthquake at the 6th seal. Pretty plain, since John sees the church soon thereafter in heaven. However, I see the first five seals as history, and us waiting now on the rapture/Day of the Lord at the 6th seal. Finally, I see the 70th week starting with the 7th seal. Vic, it really helped when the Holy Spirit told me that the 70th week was "clearly marked" and sent me off to search for the midpoint, after telling me how to find it.

The 70th week is clearly marked by the sevens: 7th seal, 7th trumpet, and 7th vial.

With this understanding, prewrath is pretrib, and pretrib is prewrath. However, we still have to get over or around the HUGE hurdle of the cosmic signs. I am sure they are shown twice: once as a warning of the day of the Lord, and again, after the 70th week has finished, as a sign of Jesus immenent coming.

Coop

 

[Vic C.]

I thought it would be a bit confusing. I believe the seven year period has come and gone and has nothing to do with future End Times events.

Here is the Reformer's view:

The 70th. week started with the Miinistry of Jesus. He "confirmed" a [new] covenant with the Jews, which happened to last seven years before the covenant was offered to the Gentiles. The first Gentile would be Cornelius, of Acts 10. Some may say it started with the stoning of Stephen, but the events were so close, it's not worth argueing.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

3 1/2 years later, He was crucified, the veil in the Temple was torn, effectively opening up the Temple for all.

... and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, .and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Many years later, after the Jewish Revolt against the Romans, the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD and all rituals and sacrifices ceased. the Jews were then scattered. This is call the Diaspora of 70 AD.

Like I said in my last post. I don't believe one must confine the rest of End Times events into a seven year package. Especially if one sees most of the seals in our past.

This is a cool site:

http://www.historicist.com

and this is a neat page on Issac Nowton's Daniel 9 beliefs.

http://www.historicist.com/newton/p1c10.htm

excerpt:

Yet shall he confirm the covenant with many for one week He kept it, notwithstanding his death, till the rejection of the Jews, and calling of Cornelius and the Gentiles in the seventh year after his passion.

And in half a week he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease; that is, by the war of the Romans upon the Jews: which war, after some commotions, began in the 13th year of Nero, A.D. 67, in the spring, when Vespasian with an army invaded them; and ended in the second year of Vespasian, A.D. 70, in autumn, Sept. 7, when Titus took the city, having burnt the Temple 27 days before: so that it lasted three years and an half.

Newton