The rapture of the Church

[Vic C.]

Very interesting, Vic, now that you have laid it out so clearly. All you lack now is understanding of when the "70th week" starts!

No I don't coop... I believe Newton and the Reformers to be correct on this.

See above. ;-)

 

[lecoop]

No I don't coop... I believe Newton and the Reformers to be correct on this.

See above. ;-)

You are certainly free to believe that if you choose, but I am not, and cannot. You see, it was while I was reading Daniel 9:27, that the Holy Spirit came to me saying, "you could find that exact midpoint of the week, "clearly marked" in the book of Revelation." And then He told me how to find it.

How then, could I ever believe that it is in the past? No, if the 6th seal is still ahead of us, then everything (with minor exceptions) from that point on is future. Sorry, but a little bit of revealed knowledge forever seals that for me.

Coop

 

[MrVersatile48]

Timely Word 4 Today here:-



July 16, 2007



He’s Coming Back!

By Van Walton



And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you. He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth… But you know him, because he lives with you now… and No, I will not abandon you as orphans???I will come to you.†John 14:16-18 (NLT)



Devotion:

Recently I took an extended trip and, knowing that I would be gone for a month, my dog joined me. He had never been in the car except to go to the vet or to the kennel. Suddenly I thrust him into what must have been a most confusing experience. Sitting in the back of the SUV he traveled for two days, 1,000 miles. Finally we reached our destination – a house on the lake in the middle of wooded acres, completely different from his normal environment in suburbia. Here my little dog took some time to acquaint himself with his new surroundings.


After two days I left him. My mother became his new caretaker. I had no qualms about leaving my faithful companion with Mother. After all, she had taught me all I knew about dogs. I knew her to be a trustworthy expert of “man’s best friend.â€Â



I continued my travels. All along I knew I would return for my pet, but did he know? According to my mother he constantly watched the door, the place from which I had left. She knew he was checking to see if I would return. In the meantime she fed him, walked him, played with him and gave him lots of attention. He was in good hands. Ten days later I showed up. I cannot tell you how happy my puppy was to see me. He barked. He ran circles around me. His tail did not stop wagging. He did not want to leave my side.



I live a life similar to my dog’s life. God created me to live on this earth and to worship Him in all I do. He placed me in the midst of confusing and sometimes disturbing circumstances. He sent His Son to teach me how to maneuver through life’s trials and to offer me salvation. Then one day Jesus left. He did not leave without providing a care taker, a friend and counselor, one to comfort in time of trouble and loneliness.



Jesus has promised to return for me and you, if you have asked Him to be Lord of your life. I don’t know about you, but I am constantly looking toward heaven wondering when He will return. I want to be ready. I want to live a life of obedience and integrity defined by holiness and righteousness because when He comes back I don’t want to run in fear. I want to sing praises to Him. I want to run and leap and dance for joy before him. I want to sit at His feet and never let Him out of my sight.



Do you know that Jesus promised his disciples that he will return for his own one day? Are you aware that any day the clouds could open up and God’s Son will step into our atmosphere to call the believers to join Him in the place He is preparing for us? Are you ready?


Dear Lord, the promise of Your return fills me with hope and overwhelming excitement. I want to spend my days living for You, so that when You appear I will have confidence and not shrink from You in shame at Your coming. Give me wisdom to live for You. I pray these words in Jesus’ Name, Amen.



Related Resources:

Do You Know Him?



From the Pound to the Palace by Van Walton



What Happens When Women say Yes to God by Lysa TerKeurst



Application Steps:

Read Mark 13:34-37.



Click on the title to take a moment to worship with the music group Mercy Me as they sing I Can Only Imagine.



Reflections:

According to the above passage in Mark, have I given much consideration to the instructions Jesus has given me?



Am I prepared for Jesus to return for me?



How will I react when I see Him face to face for the first time?



Power Verses:

Mark 13:32 -33, "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come.†(NIV)



John 14: 2-3, “In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.†(NIV)



Philippians 2:10 , “…so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth.†(NASB)

1 John 2:28 , “And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming.†(ESV)



Proverbs 31 Ministries

616-G, Matthews-Mint Hill Road

Matthews, NC 28105

http://www.Proverbs31.org

=====================================================

Right back with more useful links..


Ian

 

[MrVersatile48]

'birthpains' & 'signs of the times'

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=27480


Israel reborn: Psalms 17 & 48 etc etc

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=27370


Holocaust: Psalms 39-45

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 437#318437


Daniel's 70th Week & The Time of Jacob's Trouble: tHE gREAT tRIBULATION

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=27458


Nanotechno & Revelation 13:15-18

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=27379


Chips push thru the nano-barrier:-

http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6299147.stm

Nano circuit offers big promise:-

http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4839088.stm


Brave New World/New World Order

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 549#318549


covert surveillance & mass brainwashing

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 174#322174


The Transhuman Future??

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... highlight=


BEFORE OUR EYES..

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... highlight=

 

[n2thelight]

The earliest missionaries in Christian church history included Peter, James, John, Andrew, Phillip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Matthew, James (son of Alphaeus), Simon, Mathias (who replaced Judas) Barnabas, and Mark. These men were newly filled with the Holy Spirit and there was a new sense of commitment carried out with boldness. Paul, Timothy, and Barnabas, and others were soon added. All but John were brutally persecuted and faced torturous deaths for spreading the message of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. But it was perhaps Paul that was most instrumental in evangelizing and establishing the early Christian churches.

Countless Christians throughout history have been persecuted and died as martyrs for standing on their faith in Christ and telling His story. Included are names like Steven, Ignatius, Polycarp, Joan of Arc and thousands of others. Christian persecutions still exist today in countries such as China, Zaire, and Sudan. Yet Christianity thrives because of the unwavering faith of God's servants and the leading of the Holy Spirit.


Romans 5:3 "And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;"

Ephesians 3:13 "Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory."

II Thessalonians 1:4 "So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:"

Through documented Church history, we can see the struggles of its fledgling existence. We see the numerous attempts to stop the advancement of the Church at the price of its followers. But the glory of the Church sits upon Christ Jesus. God has always had a people who recognized Him and He still has a people who continue in their faith to serve Him.

Tens of thousands of North Korean Christians are in prison camps, and at least 20 were shot or beaten to death in prison in 2004.

In the desert kingdom of Saudi Arabia, all citizens are required to be Muslims.

A Saudi national who converts from Islam to another religion can be put to death. Even foreign nationals who are Christians living in Saudi Arabia have been arrested for practicing their faith, and the consequences are harsh.

Moeller said, "If you are arrested for being a Christian in Saudi Arabia you can almost count on being tortured. It's one of the realities of that situation for Christian believers in that country. Carrying a Bible, attending a Christian meeting, or being accused of evangelism or converting Muslims can almost certainly bring you a jail sentence and torture."

In Vietnam the Communist government has always persecuted Christians who worship outside state-sanctioned churches. But a new religion law that bans any religious activity deemed harmful to national unity is being used to step up the persecution.

Moeller said, "This has been a year of increasing persecution in Vietnam, no question about it. Increasing pressure, even martyrdoms on the Christians in the northern parts of Vietnam as well as in many of the rural areas of South Vietnam. Local authorities are cracking down harder than ever."

The persecution of Christians is the religious persecution that Christians have endured as a consequence of professing their faith, both historically and in the current era. In the two thousand years of the Christian faith, about 70 million believers have been killed for their faith, of whom 45.5 million or 65% were in the twentieth century, according to "The New Persecuted" ("I Nuovi Perseguitati").[1] The same source indicates that current persecution of Christians is most severe in Sudan.

In her book, The Suffering Self, Judith Perkins discusses the subjective psychology of early Christians. In this work, Perkins argues that Christianity formed its political and social unity and achieved its institutional power around the image of the suffering self.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians

With all of this past and present persecutions of Christains I find it very very hard to believe that Chritains who have not had to go through any of this,especially those of us in the United States truely believe that when it is our time,and it is coming that we should think that we will be some how spared, by way of this false doctrine of the rapture.

I think I've said all that I can on this subject,so if you all continue to believe that you are somehow worthy to escape when all other Christains throughout history and even now in the present, have not,you all will, without a doubt in my mind, be in for a rude awakining.

With all that said I will leave you all with the words of Christ,and good luck in you alls escape attempt.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved

John 17:15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.



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[n2thelight]

Oh!one more thing.

I really can't believe that as a Christain at a time when your unsaved friends and loved ones will need you the most,when the state of their very soul will be at stake, you would wish to fly away and leave them alone.

Can you grasp where you would be right now had Christ chose not to go through what He did for you,and I can assure you,He went through more trails and tribulations than you ever will.

Aside from the fact that we are not going anywhere,Im ready for this fight,in fact Im very much looking forward to it.

You all sound like a bunch of whimps, and at the risk of sounding harsh I don't think my Father could use you all during that time(tribulation)anyway

 

[lecoop]

Oh!one more thing.

I really can't believe that as a Christain at a time when your unsaved friends and loved ones will need you the most,when the state of their very soul will be at stake, you would wish to fly away and leave them alone.

Can you grasp where you would be right now had Christ chose not to go through what He did for you,and I can assure you,He went through more trails and tribulations than you ever will.

Aside from the fact that we are not going anywhere,Im ready for this fight,in fact Im very much looking forward to it.

You all sound like a bunch of whimps, and at the risk of sounding harsh I don't think my Father could use you all during that time(tribulation)anyway

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Coop

P. S. You'll die, and for no reason, except that you will not be looking for His coming.

 

[Vic C.]

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Coop

P. S. You'll die, and for no reason, except that you will not be looking for His coming.

Coop, I really didn't see much pride in onelove's last post.

I would like to see some of you address this statement:

I really can't believe that as a Christian at a time when your unsaved friends and loved ones will need you the most,when the state of their very soul will be at stake, you would wish to fly away and leave them alone.

 

[Fnerb]

I don't know that I can comment direcatly on how your asking your question. I think your point is very relavent though.

Being that I am an amillenialist, I hold that the millenium has begun and that Christ's next return will be final judgment.

Thus, in light of your comment, I feel it's all the more important to carry the flag of the cross into the world. Into our own homes. Time is short and when we face the judgment seat, it will be too late.

Aside from the fact that we are not going anywhere,Im ready for this fight,in fact Im very much looking forward to it.

You all sound like a bunch of whimps, and at the risk of sounding harsh I don't think my Father could use you all during that time(tribulation)anyway

 

[sisterchristian]

I very much doubt that when we're in the middle of "Flying away" with the Lord, that we're going to be saying "Oh wait, hold on, I do not want to go with you Lord, I'd rather stay here and go through the wrath with everyone who continually rejected you when they had the chance to accept you!" Yeah, maybe this will make me less of a wimp! :o (Would'nt want to be called a wimp)!

 

[n2thelight]

sisterchristian

I'd rather stay here and go through the wrath with everyone who continually rejected you when they had the chance to accept you!"

Let me ask you a question,why are you afraid of the wrath of God,if you belong to Him?My Father can and will protect His own.

Another question,do you even know what the wrath of God is?

Do you even know what the tribulation is?

My Father told me to endure till the end not seek to run away for he who seeks to save his life will lose it

Luke 9:24 "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it."

 

[n2thelight]

Does anyone not wish to comment on my previous post

With all of this past and present persecutions of Christains I find it very very hard to believe that Chritains who have not had to go through any of this,especially those of us in the United States truely believe that when it is our time,and it is coming that we should think that we will be some how spared, by way of this false doctrine of the rapture.

Guess my question is why do you think you all will be spared when no one else has been?
Why are you all special?

 

[sisterchristian]

sisterchristian



Let me ask you a question,why are you afraid of the wrath of God,if you belong to Him?My Father can and will protect His own.

Another question,do you even know what the wrath of God is?

Do you even know what the tribulation is?

My Father told me to endure till the end not seek to run away for he who seeks to save his life will lose it

Luke 9:24 "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it."

For your FYI, yes I do know what the wrath of God is, and Yes I do know what the tribulation period is, I do read my Bible you know! :smt011 Also neither will be very pretty for some, and I do not wish to be around for any of it thank you very much! But if you do, then by all means go for it sister!

 

[Vic C.]

I very much doubt that when we're in the middle of "Flying away" with the Lord, that we're going to be saying "Oh wait, hold on, I do not want to go with you Lord, I'd rather stay here and go through the wrath with everyone who continually rejected you when they had the chance to accept you!" Yeah, maybe this will make me less of a wimp! :o (Would'nt want to be called a wimp)!

Sister, you quoted me, but the quote is blank. Are you responding to Onelove's statement?

Going through God's wrath is not for us. 1 Thess 5:9 says "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"

The Wrath is not for us! The question here shouldn't be whether we re going through God's Wrath, but whether we will be subjected through the persecution (wrath) caused by Satan.

Satan's persecution and God's Wrath are two separate events, no matter what the sever-years tribbers say.

So Onelove's question is valid; why would anyone want an easy escape from Persecution if 1) this is the very time we as witnesses to Christ, will be needed the most and 2) there is NO promise whatsoever that we are to escape any form of Tribulation. Can't find it... anywhere in my Bible. I find just the opposite.

Until people understand that there IS no seven year period of Tribulation stated in the Bible... nowhere, they will always misunderstand the difference between Satan's wrath and God's WRATH!

I will give anyone $50.00 if they can find a verse that says there will be a seven year period of Tribulation. Let it be known that people much more "educated" in this than us have taken the challenge and so far failed.

See here for proof --> http://www.americanvision.org/articlear ... -05-06.asp

Hey, read my signature.

 

[Vic C.]

Does anyone not wish to comment on my previous post

With all of this past and present persecutions of Christians I find it very very hard to believe that Christans who have not had to go through any of this,especially those of us in the United States truly believe that when it is our time,and it is coming that we should think that we will be some how spared, by way of this false doctrine of the rapture.

Guess my question is why do you think you all will be spared when no one else has been?
Why are you all special?

I won't comment because I sort of feel the same way. You see, I'm a slug compared to those martyrs before me. I see no reason why God should favor us over them. Why weren't the Christians of the first century spared from the grips of Rome and the games at the Colosseum? Why were so many fed to the jungle beasts, burned at the stake or crucified? Where was their "pretribulation rapture"? All the early church fathers who were martyred... all those during the Reformation that were martyed... where was their "pretribulation rapture"

 

[golfjack]

reply

Vic, Are you telling God what to do? His Word says that believers will not go through the Tribulation, and that should settle it. You can go through that if you wish, but I will not be there during this time.


May God bless, Golfjack

 

[Vic C.]

Re: reply

Vic, Are you telling God what to do? His Word says that believers will not go through the Tribulation, and that should settle it. You can go through that if you wish, but I will not be there during this time.


May God bless, Golfjack

I don't know where you got the impression I said any such thing. I can't tell God what to do, but since you brought it up, please show us where His Word says we won't go through the Tribulation.

Thanks.

 

[Solo]

From all of my reading over the last 20+ years, I have not read anywhere in Scriptures where the body of Christ will be raptured out of the world prior to the Great Tribulation.

According to Jesus in Matthew 24 the Great Tribulation occurs prior to his return.

 

[golfjack]

reply

What about 1 Thess. 5:9 God did not appoint us to wrath. The Martyrs of old went through trials and tribulations, but nothiing compared to the wrath of God on earth during the great tribulation. Matt. 24: 21 says for there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. God said this, not me.



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[Solo]

Re: reply

What about 1 Thess. 5:9 God did not appoint us to wrath. The Martyrs of old went through trials and tribulations, but nothiing compared to the wrath of God on earth during the great tribulation. Matt. 24: 21 says for there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. God said this, not me.



May God bless, Golfjack

All of those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture that I have spoken with do not separate God's wrath upon the unbelieving and the tribulation upon the saints of God from the enemy.

Matthew 24 falls right in line with Revelation's account of the end times, and it should as Jesus is communicating these truths to his disciples when He was asked. Let us look at Matthew 24.

Notice that Jesus speaks of those coming to say that Jesus is the Christ deceiving many. There also will be wars and rumours of wars, and nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines, and diseases, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. This is not yet the Great Tribulation.

Then they will deliver believers to be afflicted and they shall kill believers, and believers will be hated of all nations FOR JESUS NAME'S SAKE. This is still not the Great Tribulation period, and yet the terrible things that can occur to believers is quite apparent in the very difficult stages, even unto death. Many believers have been tortured, hated, killed, tormented, etc. etc. over the years since Christ Jesus' execution. None of those times in history has been the Great Tribulation period, and these things that Jesus speaks of in Matthew 24:4-8 is the Great Tribulation period, yet.

• 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. Matthew 24:4-8

Jesus then continues that many will be offended and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. He speaks of many false prophets rising up deceiving many. He declares that wickedness will abound and the love of many will grow cold. Those that endure to the end will be saved, meaning those that have believed with their heart and confessed Jesus Christ will be saved and will continue as the Scripture teaches, and they will be saved. Yet the Great Tribulation is not yet.

• 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matthew 24:10-14

After these beginning sorrows and the believers being hated of all nations and being killed comes one called the abomination of desolation which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the Holy place. In short, the one who comes up and stands in the Holy place claiming to be God is this man of sin who is to come. After this "son of perdition" is revealed, the time of the Great tribulation will begin. the Great Tribulation will be a time that will be worse on the believers than had been up to that point. The worldwide persecution of Christians will envelope the world and there will be very few places to hide. This time of Great Tribulation will be cut short for the elect's sake.

• 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21

AFTER the Great Tribulation, Jesus will return to earth for those who have believed in Him and have been persecuted for HIS NAME'S SAKE.

• 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Paul speaks of the believers gathering in the air when Jesus Christ returns. He writes that two things must occur prior to Jesus' return. First, the falling away from sound doctrine must occur, and then the man of sin will be revealed. Jesus will not return until after these two things occur, just as Jesus described in Matthew 24.

• 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4