The rapture of the Church

[Vic C.]

There is most certainly a 7 year period, but I choose to call it the 70th week of Daniel. Really, all it takes is an understanding of John's chronology, and simple math. The two witnesses will testify for 1260 days during the second half of the 70th week. The temple will be trampled for 42 months during the second half of the 70th week. The woman will be protected and fed for 1260 days or "time, times and half of time," during the second half of the 70th week. Finally, the beast will have his authority during the second half of the 70th week. We therefore have five witnesses that the second half of the week will be 1260 days long. If this is half, then the whole is 1260 times two, or 2520 days, or 42 months times two or 84 months. Seven years times 12 is 84. Finally, two times 3 1/2 is 7. How then can anyone argue that there is not a 7 year period of time? Don't get hung up on what we call it. It is going to happen, and soon. That is what is important.

Look at Revelation closly. All this is the same 3 1/2 years. You said so youself. Where's the first 3 1/2 years? You can't squeeze a seven year period out of Revelation. It's just not there, mathematically.

I stand by what I said. The more I study and look for a seven year period in the future, the more I am convinced it doesn't exist.

 

[Vic C.]

Here, just in case you neglected to read it when I posted it on page 25.

http://www.americanvision.org/articlear ... -05-06.asp

 

[n2thelight]

Acts 3:21 "Whom the heaven must receive unto the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began."

Christ must remain in heaven until the times of restitution of all things. The "restitution of all things" is "Apokatastasis" in the Greek, and means the re-establishment of all things from a state of ruin. All the prophets have talked of this time of the Millennium since this world age begin.

I asked this question in an earlier post,with no response,thought I'D try again.
How does He get out of Heaven to rapture you all?

 

[lecoop]

Look at Revelation closly. All this is the same 3 1/2 years. You said so youself. Where's the first 3 1/2 years? You can't squeeze a seven year period out of Revelation. It's just not there, mathematically.

I stand by what I said. The more I study and look for a seven year period in the future, the more I am convinced it doesn't exist.

Vic, this is simple math! We know from Daniel that the abomination cuts the 7 years into two parts. Where is the abomination in Revelation? It is at the 7th trumpet. Therefore, the FIRST 3 1/2 years are before the 7th trumpet, and the last are after it. (However, the 1260 days of the two witnesses will start parhaps 3 1/2 days before that 7th trumpet.) This agrees perfectly with John, for he shows us that the 70th week starts after the 6th seal. What do the people say? They are affraid of the "day" of God's wrath. They understand that the signs at the 6th seal are pointing straight to that Day, as starting immediately after these signs. What comes next? Of course the 7th seal, which ushers in the Day and the 70th week.

Yes, of course I agree that all are the same 3 1/2 years; but they are all the second 3 1/2 years. If you undestand Jesus' chronology in the Olivet discourse, he skips right over the first 3 1/2 years. He says, "the end is not yet." But suddenly he mentions the abomination event; which splits the 7 years.

The first 3 1/2 are there. But you must search for them.

Coop

 

[n2thelight]

Mark 13:9 "But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake,, for a testimony against them."

Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

This verse has nothing to do with the "day of the Lord," or the 70th week of Daniel.

Do you know what hour is being spoken of here?

When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2, on Pentecost day; "This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet."

Acts 2:16: "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"

We can read this prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. These sons and daughters shall speak in a cloven tongue, as recorded in Acts 2:6; meaning that the language that they shall speak in will need no interpreter, for every one that hears will hear in their native tongue of the dialect of the neighborhood they grew up in. This is the way that the gospel will go forth in the last days, for it is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. These sons and daughters will speak, as stated in Mark 13:11, but whatsoever words they do speak in that hour, it will be the Holy Spirit that speaks through them.

Acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days,' saith God, `I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and you old men shall dream dreams:"

Acts 2:18 "And on My servants and on My handmaidens I will pour out in those days of My Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"

Acts 2:19 "And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:"

Acts 2:20 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:"

Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' "

Sorry, but these verses are not referring to the time the antichrist will be here. Did you not read what Jesus said? "The end is not yet..."

Of course the end is not yet,but this is what will be happening before the end

Please don't put your erroneous thoughts into scripture. This is as bogus as anything you have ever written. Who has the power to hurt the earth?

They are angels, and not fallen angels. The trumpets, where the "hurt" begins, are blown in heaven, and it is God's angels that bring these judgements.

Will you please follow the subject,let me help you out

Revelation 9:1 "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit [pit of the abyss]."

The "star" that falls to the earth is the star of Isaiah 14. The star is "Lucifer", who will be the Antichrist once he arrives on earth. Satan is given the key, or authority to the bottomless pit, for this is where Satan's fallen angels are held.

Revelation 9:2 "And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."

Revelation 9:3 "And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power."

This locust army that comes upon the earth is Satan's army of demonic forces. They are the fallen angels, and demons, both coming with Satan, and those that are already here upon the earth.

Let me say this: Jesus is coming for those that are looking for His coming. Are you looking? It seems not.

Of course you should be looking,but here's the problem,when satan comes pretending to be Christ you will be deceived because you think you are not supposed to be here

Paul did not say this at all.

Thats exactley what Paul said

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Why on earth would Paul warn us about the Day of the Lord if we were not going to be here?

How do you know what the departure is from? Paul did not tell us.

I gave you the answer in another post,check it out in strongs

The tribulation of Satan, is PRESSURE! Either take the mark, or lose your head!

Whats the problem with losing your head,heck Christains have been losings their life for their beliefs throughout all of history and even now,did you not read my earlier post,but here's the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians

See what you don't understand is that satan could care less about your flesh,he wants your soul,to join his in the lake of fire.

 

[Vic C.]

The first 3 1/2 are there. But you must search for them.

Coop

Impasse. What else can I say? I believe most of the seals have already passed. I believe in a future falling away from faith; a New church or religion, so to speak. I believe in a future revealing of the antichrist. I believe in a great Tribulation against believers. I believe that God will either remove or protect His believers from the Wrath He will unleash on an unbelieving world.

I also believer the Reformers when they comment that the 70th. week of Daniel is not a future event. Daniel 9:24-27 doesn't suggest a future 70th. week when compared to historical events after Daniel's time of writing these verses It fits so much better with the events I have been posting recently.

Now, I can entertain a 3 1/2 year timeframe. Both Daniel 12 and Revelation point to 1260 days plus some.

 

[Vic C.]

This locust army that comes upon the earth is Satan's army of demonic forces. They are the fallen angels, and demons, both coming with Satan, and those that are already here upon the earth.

onelove, you might want to refresh yourself and read Joel 2, which is all about The Day of the Lord. This army was God's army.

Joel 2:25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpillar, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.

BTW, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was fulfilled in Acts. Peter is reminding them that this part of Joel's prophecy was being fulfilled. This is the latter rain Joel speaks of in the same chapter. Joel 2:23 He speaks of this happenning in the first month. Pentecost (Shavuot) falls in the first month of the Jewish calendar.

 

[n2thelight]

Hello Vic

I understand what you are saying,I will show how I see the locust army,but first lets look at the out pouring of the Holy Spirit

BTW, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was fulfilled in Acts. Peter is reminding them that this part of Joel's prophecy was being fulfilled. This is the latter rain Joel speaks of in the same chapter. Joel 2:23 He speaks of this happenning in the first month. Pentecost (Shavuot) falls in the first month of the Jewish calendar.

I understand that Joel was talking about pentecost,but I also feel that he was speaking about the end times also here's how I see it


This was the message that was given two thousand years ago also, and it was a sample of what would happen in our generation.

Joel 2:29 " And also upon the servants and upon the hand maids in those days will I pour out My spirit."

Joel 2:30 "And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke."

Joel 2:31 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come."

Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

Remember, Joel called out to those living in the final days to sound the trumpet, sound the alarm, we are getting ready for the Antichrist to come to earth with his locust army, and he is going to lead his northern army against the children of God. Then when the Antichrist does that, the firstfruits which are the elect of God are going to stand up, and we just read is what they will say.

Do you understand now what was mouthed on Pentecost Day by those dear souls that were filled wih the Holy Spirit. It was the truth of God's Word, and there was no interpreter needed, for God did His own interpretating.

In the book of Mark it records where the Holy Spirit will speak through the sons and daughters, to give us the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. Mark 13:9-11;

Mark 13:9 "But take heed to your selves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the syagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them."

"Councils" is "Sanhedrin", the religious councils of the day. The only reason you will be delivered up in this last generation, is for Christ's sake. What you have to say to them, is not something that they want to hear, because they have all been deceived by that moment, and you are telling them so. Think of this totally in a spiritual way, in that it will be the Holy Spirit that will be doing the speaking and giving you the unction to speak.. The beating is not by a club, but by brow beating. It is using mental preasures and suasion to try and get you to change your stand. This will be more like a church revival, battling the good head deacons who have bought Satan's lies.

Mark 13:10 "And the gospel must first be published among all nations."

This is the reason for the need of the the voice of the Holy Spirit, or tongues being spoken. When one of God's elect speaks, it will be just as prophesied by Joel the prophet.

Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought before hand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost."

Don't sit and plan ahead on what you are going to say, because you are not going to be the one doing the speaking, though the voice comes from you. The hour that this is talking about is the "hour of temptation". This is the hour spoken of in Revelation 17:12; that hour with the beast, the one world religious system, where Satan, the Antichrist rules over all mankind. It is also called the "hour of Temptations", which is a five month period as told by Jesus in Revelation 9:5, 10.

Revelation 9:5 "And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man." How do we know it is for only five months, and not three and one half years, as Daniel spoke? Because Jesus told us that this time would be shortened for the elect's sake. Matthew 24:22; "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Our Father knows the limits of man in the flesh body, and the soul is what is being refered to here. In the longer three and a half year period, under Satan's pressures, all mankind would be deceived and worship the Antichrist, who is Satan the destroyer.

The speaking in the cloven tongue will only come in our generation during that time of the "hour of temptation". That hour has not come yet, for it is the hour that Satan, the Antichrist is playing the role of Jesus Christ, and deceiving all those people that have not sealed the truth of God's Word in their mind, but rather follow the traditions of men. This is the only hour, or time period of five months where the unforgivable sin can becommitted. That unforgivable sin is when one of God's elect will deny the Holy Spirit the opportunity to speak through you, with the evidence of the presence of the living God.

There we have that time when when the cloven tongue shall be spoken, and when it is used it is not you but the Holy Spirit speaking, and giving His elect the unction to do so. Unction is a supernatural act, and there is nothing that needs a translator for what the Holy Spirit has to say, for all people will hear in their own natural languages.

Revelation 6:12 "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;"


Would you agree that this verse of Revelation is speaking of the end time?
Do you notice how it fits verse 31 of Joel 2

Joel 2:31 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come."

The tongues that were spoken on pentecost will be spoken again as shown in Mark 13:11

 

[n2thelight]

The tribulation is nothing but satan's deception,that's why Christ's number 1 warning was for you not to be,(Decieived) but sadly most of you already are.

Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."

Now!let me show you how you will feel when Christ does return

First do you remember what Paul said about wanting to present you as a virgin to Christ

II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."
II Corinthians 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

Do you understand these two verses?Let me help you out,Christ has returned to heaven,He is our husband we are His bride,before He returns satan will come pretending to be your husband,and you will become impregnated,thats why Christ would say woe to those who are with child and give suck

Mark 13:17 "But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!"

Jesus is the bridegroom and He has gone for a long period of time from His bride. When He returns He expects to find His bride faithful to Him. When His bride is standing with child in her womb, spiritually speaking it means that she has taken another husband. So why is it "woe to those with child, and to them that give suck?" It means that you have given yourself over to the false christ, to Satan at his arrival, and to "give suck" means that you are in the service of the enemy of our Lord.

He's going to feel just like you would if you went away and came back and your wife was pregnant with anothers child.

Now back to how you will feel,the shame will be so great that you are going to want to kill yourself

Revelation 6:14 "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

Revelation 6:16 "And said to the mountains and the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

Its going to be at that instant at the moment of His return,you will know that you were deceived.

The rapture is simply not scriptual,period.

 

[Vic C.]

Do you understand now what was mouthed on Pentecost Day by those dear souls that were filled wih the Holy Spirit. It was the truth of God's Word, and there was no interpreter needed, for God did His own interpretating.

Yes, I understand that it was a prophecy that was partially fulfilled at Pentecost and that it will be fulfilled completely in the future, when one takes into account the cosmic signs.

Tell me, have you ever read any historical accounts from the first century that may have related to this; for instance, Flavus Josephus?

 

[n2thelight]

Tell me, have you ever read any historical accounts from the first century that may have related to this; for instance, Flavus Josephus

?

No Vic I have never read anything by him,would you recomend that I do?

 

[Vic C.]

?

No Vic I have never read anything by him,would you recomend that I do?

Can't recommend you read something I haven't read myself yet. His writings on the Jewish revolt from 66-70AD was one of the things I've been wanting to read.

I just thought if you did, you could enlighten me a bit. The Historicists and Preterists put a lot of stock in this book. Supposedly they say it gives them some insight on some of Daniel 9:26-27, Matthew 24 and Revelation.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Re:

There is enough Holy Spirit to anoint every human on earth. And when the church leaves, He will still be here, baptizing more people into the body of Christ.

So when does it all end? Do you believe that there will come an end to wickedness, or do you see the rapture as one harvest in many, and a new crop of Christians are going to spring up out of the world full of tares that are left behind?

The sheep and goat judgment = nations. Is this before or after the rapture?
The tares are bundled together and cast into the fire, then the wheat is harvested. Is this before or after the rapture?


2Pe 3:10 ¶ But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This day that Peter writes about "the day of the Lord", when the earth and the works therein are burned up - no doubt after Christians have been raptured...but wait, According to you guys, a new crop of Christians springs up, A second rapture? A second harvest? Or is the earth, in all of its wickedness left in its wickedness to be destroyed so that the new heavens and new earth can appear?

Yes, Yes, God is powerful and can put His Holy Spirit where ever He wants His Holy Spirit to be. Over the face of the earth, or in the face of wicked people.

It is my belief that there is a purpose for the rapture. To separate the good guys from the bad guys. Explain this to me. Peter also says (in that very same chapter) that the reason that He has not raptured us yet is because that it is not His will that any should perish but that all should come to redemption.

Guys, good news! It is all going to end someday. No more bad guys. No more sin. No more need to go through the same stuff over and over and over.

May God have mercy on His people who are counting on someone to show up after the rapture and preach the gospel. We are it. Far too much of the church is thinking that those two in Rev. 11 are gonna show up after the rapture and take up the slack for the complacency of the church.

That same group of Christians are reading Scriptures that pertain to The Great Depression, The Dust Bowl, WWII, Chernobyl, and thinking that these are events that are going to happen in the future. The same group seems to think that the Catholic church is more evil than any Nazi, or gangster, and I suspect that they are secretly thinking that the mark of the beast is gonna be rosary beads....

 

[Vic C.]

The sheep and goat judgment = nations. Is this before or after the rapture?
The tares are bundled together and cast into the fire, then the wheat is harvested. Is this before or after the rapture?

After; read Matthew 25:31+. It it post tribulation. Just before the 1,000 year reign. No doubt, there will be Jewish and Gentiles who somehow survive God Wrath. This is when the good from the bad are separated.

2Pe 3:10 ¶ But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

After studying scripture, it appears there may be many Days of the Lord. Every time God passes judgment against the Israelites is a Day of the Lord. This Day is always associated wtih Wrath of some kind.

Could Peter be writiing about what occurs just before this?

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

[MrVersatile48]

See 2 Peter 3:5-9 @ http://www.Biblegateway.org

5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

See also Revelation 6:8

8I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

& Rev 9:13-18

13The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the horns[a] of the golden altar that is before God. 14It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." 15And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16The number of the mounted troops was two hundred million. I heard their number.

17The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur. 18A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths.


Must go

Ian

 

[n2thelight]

Hello Vic

After studying scripture, it appears there may be many Days of the Lord. Every time God passes judgment against the Israelites is a Day of the Lord. This Day is always associated wtih Wrath of some kind.

I don't think there are many Days of the Lord,I think every scripture speaking of this day is referring to His second coming

Isaiah 2:12 (Whole Chapter)
For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:


Isaiah 13:6 (Whole Chapter)
Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.


Isaiah 13:9 (Whole Chapter)
Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.


Jeremiah 46:10 (Whole Chapter)
For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.


Ezekiel 13:5 (Whole Chapter)
Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.


Ezekiel 30:3 (Whole Chapter)
For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.


Joel 1:15 (Whole Chapter)
Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.


Joel 2:1 (Whole Chapter)
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;


Joel 2:11 (Whole Chapter)
And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?


Joel 2:31 (Whole Chapter)
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.


Joel 3:14 (Whole Chapter)
Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.


Amos 5:18 (Whole Chapter)
Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.


Amos 5:20 (Whole Chapter)
Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?


Obadiah 1:15 (Whole Chapter)
For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.


Zephaniah 1:7 (Whole Chapter)
Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.


Zephaniah 1:14 (Whole Chapter)
The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.


Zechariah 14:1 (Whole Chapter)
Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.


Malachi 4:5 (Whole Chapter)
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:


Acts 2:20 (Whole Chapter)
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:


1 Corinthians 5:5 (Whole Chapter)
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


2 Corinthians 1:14 (Whole Chapter)
As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are our's in the day of the Lord Jesus.


1 Thessalonians 5:2 (Whole Chapter)
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


2 Peter 3:10 (Whole Chapter)
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

As stated above all of these scriptures are referring to the second coming

 

[MrVersatile48]

Daniel 12 prophesied that travel & knowledge would both multiply at this time, as they have

The Matt 24 birthpains -

3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you.

5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many.

6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,

13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.


- all kinds of natural, social & spiritual disasters - are indeed accelerating & intensifying as all birthpains alway do - to bring on the Great Delivery of the instant airlift Rapture rescue of all who love Jesus, in Matt 24:30-42 etc

Matthew 24:30-42 (New International Version)

30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[a]is near, right at the door.

34I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

The Day and Hour Unknown

36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[c] but only the Father.

37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;

39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11 (New International Version)

The Coming of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.

14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

1 Thessalonians 5

1Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you,

2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

3While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

4But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

5You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

6So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled.

7For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night.

8But since we belong to the day, let us be self-controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.

9For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

11Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.


1 Corinthians 15:51-58 too


51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changedâ€â€

52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."[a]

55"Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?"

56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

57But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

 

[MrVersatile48]

See

Israel urges Japan to join war on terror

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=29523

Ian

 

[Vic C.]

Hello Vic

After studying scripture, it appears there may be many Days of the Lord. Every time God passes judgment against the Israelites is a Day of the Lord. This Day is always associated with Wrath of some kind.

I don't think there are many Days of the Lord, I think every scripture speaking of this day is referring to His second coming.

*edited out for space*

As stated above all of these scriptures are referring to the second coming

Hey onelove. Sorry I'm just getting back to this. Been busy the last seven days.

I used to believe the same. I was once pretribulation, then prewrath, now a mix of prewrath and some historicism. A problem arises for the full futurist when biblical history is brought into the equation. Honestly, one just can't study End Times without at least interjecting some historical accounts into the mix. Last month, at church, we wrapped up a six week Bible study on the Minor Prophets. We looked at the historical evidence as well as any possible future application.

I have to tell you, the historical evidence was overwhelming. Many of the verses you quoted above, like for instance Obadiah 1:15, refer to the time of Babylonian captivity. He and some of the other prophets of that time were clearly warning their people of this wrath that was soon to come against them. You can't really read words like "the day of the Lord is near" or "the day of the Lord is at hand" and not see it as anything but referring to events in their near future. Historicists see much OT prophecy as "history prewritten". Meaning, to us, it is history, but to those for whom it was written, it was their future.

I found this to be a very good read:

http://www.crivoice.org/dayoflord.html

... and although this next site is a preterist's view (one which I don't believe fully because I do believe in a future, physical Second Coming and final Wrath), it brings up some very interesting points that just easily be dismissed.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preteri ... _p_02.html

Peace,
Vic

 

[Albina]

81 audio sermons on the book of Revelation by Arturo G Azurdia
amazing teacher ( best i ever heard)
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/a ... ation.html