The Real Trinity please stand up!

[Free]

In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together....The Vatican Council has explained the meaning to be attributed to the term mystery in theology. It lays down that a mystery is a truth which we are not merely incapable of discovering apart from Divine Revelation, but which, even when revealed, remains “hidden by the veil of faith and enveloped, so to speak, by a kind of darkness” (Const., "De fide. cath.", iv). (Joyce G.H. The Blessed Trinity. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XV Copyright © 1912 by Robert Appleton Company Online Edition Copyright © 2003 by K. Knight)

Martin Luthor:
It is indeed true that the name "Trinity" is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man. (Luther Martin. The Sermons of Martin Luther, Church Postil, 1522; III:406-421, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
That Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, three distinct persons in one divine essence and nature, are one God, who has created heaven and earth...Concerning these articles there is no contention or dispute, since we on both sides confess them. Therefore it is not necessary now to treat further of them. (Luther Martin. The Smallclad Papers. 1537. Translated by F. Bente and W. H. T. Dau Published in: _Triglot Concordia: The Symbolical Books of the Ev. Lutheran Church_. (St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921), pp. 453-529).

I can dig up More free, but the Originating church says in more than many places it's not a doctrine found in scripture, but it is the Mystery of the Christian Faith.

Martin Luthur said it's not there, but both sides believe it, why mess with it?

Just as I suspected--you have completely misunderstood what has been said. As I stated, it is utter nonsense to make a doctrine and claim that it is not found in Scripture. The word "Trinity" is not found in Scripture, which every Trinitarian will agree with, but the concept of it is. You are equating and entire doctrine with a single word by which that doctrine is called, and that is your error here.

The foks that made the Doctrine tell you it's not scriptural!!!! Like a lot of other things Cathloics practice.

So, I was not the one that said the Doctrine was not found in Scriptures, the folks that made up the Doctrine said that.

No, that is not what they said, as can be clearly seen in the "evidence" you provided.

Also, the person that made the Statement can't be Trinitarian, quoting the exact term Oneness use. It's like saying I am a car Mechanic, but I can't find the engine in the cars, where is it located?

Just because someone is mistaken in their word choice does not mean they are not Trinitarian. Period.

You keep bringing up Monotheism, but Using Trinity is not the best way to go that route.

I don't understand what you are saying but I am in no way using the Trinity to prove monotheism. There is and always has been only one God, the Bible makes this clear, and that is a foundational belief of Christianity and a foundation of the doctrine of the Trinity.

There can't be just One Free. They can be as One, be One like the flesh of Husband and wife. Be one as we are one in them.

Not just ONE God though and thats it. You can't remove the advocate, the two thrones, and the fact Jesus is the Son of God, came in the flesh. Not God the Father coming in flesh, that is also in John. We just don't take one away because we want to believe in some Monotheism based on Nothing.

Once again for all that joined, I am not against the Original Trinity Doctrine, not JW or Mormon.

I don't think you understand the "Original Trinity Doctrine". You are a polytheist and so are Mormons, and that goes against any and all doctrines of the Trinity, and most importantly, it goes completely against Scripture.

Free, I know you examine things, I know you will change and come to the right things that are true. It's one reason I am here, because I don't know everything.

I have examined it and so far there is nothing on my end to change.

 

[Brother Mike]

Free, the part about 3 being one, Rome calls a mystery. I can dig more up if you like. A Mystery not found in scriptures, your determination to hold onto some Cathloic Doctrine is holding you back here. I just used One page out of many in hopes you would get the point.

I am not sure what you consider a Polytheist. Paul said One Father God and One Lord Jesus Christ, I count two, so I guess I am in the same boat Paul is in. It takes a convulted Doctrine to forget how to add.

And your Idea that the Base of Christianity invovles some trinity Doctrine, Makes you 3 steps away from getting those rose beads out to pray.

There are ZERO Scriptures that tell us there is ONE GOD.

There is ONE LORD GOD, No other like Him or other gods.
There is One Servant Isa 49, whom is the Light and Lord Jesus Christ. Not my words, but God's. Also in acts 3:26 I believe.

The Father calls the Son God. A simple to read and understand scripture.

Heb 1:8 kjva But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

That Makes 2 Free. Count them.

And though Jesus was called a servant by the Father, Once we Get to Hebrews 1:8 He is fully God, Just like His Father, if not before.

How you just say there is one and forget simple math is the real mystery here.

One Lord God, whom there is no God like. One Lord Jesus Christ, whom is also God.

Jud 1:4 kjva For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is only one Saviour, One Lord God, One Creator. That does not erease the son, make the son less God, and does not make it only ONE GOD.

Just to make sure your OK, How many gods you count in Jud 1:4?

Jud 1:4 kjva For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ

If you get this right, then you would get the other 51 scriptures correct also.

Thanks for at least taking the time to reply to my thread.

 

[Deborah13]

Just to make sure your OK, How many gods you count in Jud 1:4?

Jud 1:4 kjva For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I have wondered about this verse as well. When I look at it in Young's it lead me to look at the Greek words used in Strong's. There are two different Greek words in the Greek and KJV translates them both as 'Lord'. Here is how Young's Literal Translation translates it.

Jud 1:4 for there did come in unobserved certain men, long ago having been written beforehand to this judgment, impious, the grace of our God perverting to lasciviousness, and our only Master, God, and Lord--Jesus Christ--denying,

If the KJV had done the same with the two different words instead of one, you can look them up, it would read...
....and the only Owner, God, and Master (Lord) of us, Jesus Christ.
This is what it literally says in the Greek that the KJV was translated from. It's here at the scripture4all site. http://www.scripture4all.org

Just the placing of one pronoun can make things quite different.
So who is correct the KJV or the YLT? I don't know, I'm not a Greek scholar.

 

[eddif]

Romans 1:19
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

eddif

Oh well.
The first description of the Godhead was at creation. Of course it is in symbol / shadow form, and that is a little hard to accept. It sounds so much better to just bypass creation (?).

I wear this out, to some extent:
Any man can understand Godhead. (Romans 1:19-20)
How?
Looking at creation.
Knowing in the New Jerusalem the Father and the Son are the light thereof.

So at creation the sun and moon and light are the symbols. Or either I am not an any man.

That does not sound spiritual. The book of Job has God explaining things through creation. Just blows my redneck, Mississippi, half brain away.

eddif

 

[tim-from-pa]

Thank you for sharing tim-from-pa. God created everything out of a real substance called faith, by which he framed the Worlds. Heb 11:1-4. Not correcting you, just saying.

You Mention the Holy Spirit, but the Original Trinity Doctrine makes no mention of His nature, so we don't leave him out, but He was dragged into it in 381ad in a revised new edition of the Trinity Doctrine.

The Holy Spirit does not speak on His own, but only things He hears. By the definition of Theos, He is in the god class, but God always has taken ownership of Him as His Spirit.
He is not the Father, or anything Remotely like the Father in make up. He would speak His own things if he were. He is our connection to the Father.

Eph 2:18 kjva For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

So, the Holy Spirit is not part of the One God system, but through the Holy Spirit we have constant access to the Father.

We need lots more understanding on this subject.

Yes, I think we are saying the same thing from what I'm reading here. That's how I understand it.

 

[Brother Mike]

I have wondered about this verse as well. When I look at it in Young's it lead me to look at the Greek words used in Strong's. There are two different Greek words in the Greek and KJV translates them both as 'Lord'. Here is how Young's Literal Translation translates it.

Jud 1:4 for there did come in unobserved certain men, long ago having been written beforehand to this judgment, impious, the grace of our God perverting to lasciviousness, and our only Master, God, and Lord--Jesus Christ--denying,

If the KJV had done the same with the two different words instead of one, you can look them up, it would read...
....and the only Owner, God, and Master (Lord) of us, Jesus Christ.
This is what it literally says in the Greek that the KJV was translated from. It's here at the scripture4all site. http://www.scripture4all.org

Just the placing of one pronoun can make things quite different.
So who is correct the KJV or the YLT? I don't know, I'm not a Greek scholar.

They are both correct enough. The word ONE ONLY (Alone, by himself, isolated) LORD (Master) from Hebrew Adoni, Yehovah, God.

Jude is making the point that just as Isaiah said, God speaking there is only ONE of HIM, none other. The Greek tries to show that.
So Lord means supreme ruler of all things.

Lord for Jesus means Ruler of all the house.

That is why Two different Greek Words were translated Lord, but the One for God the Father came from the Hebrew Language translated Adoni, or supreme everyting.

James (Ylt) used Master to denote Master of the Lord mentioned next.

The other day I had to read this over several times.

1Co 15:28 kjva And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Jesus given all things, but had taken all He was given, and instead of keeping it made it back subject unto His Father. Not that He had to, but did according to Paul. So that all things that were his is under His Father.

Only scripture I know of says that.

 

[Gregg]

The bible is not abundantly clear that There is a God with 3 beings stuck inside a casing called God. Is the God part like a casing or something with Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and Father cramped inside?

You are attempting to define the limits of God within creation - time and space; but as I said in another forum, God exists outside of time and space. You disagree as you have stated in another forum - but, if God created all things [matter, energy, time, space, etc] then He would have had to exist outside of them to create them

.

 

[Brother Mike]

Oh well.
The first description of the Godhead was at creation. Of course it is in symbol / shadow form, and that is a little hard to accept. It sounds so much better to just bypass creation (?).

I wear this out, to some extent:
Any man can understand Godhead. (Romans 1:19-20)
How?
Looking at creation.
Knowing in the New Jerusalem the Father and the Son are the light thereof.

So at creation the sun and moon and light are the symbols. Or either I am not an any man.

That does not sound spiritual. The book of Job has God explaining things through creation. Just blows my redneck, Mississippi, half brain away.

eddif

Your quoting yourself man. I live in southern MO, have a string of rednecks surrounding me. They are good folk.

The Godhead, was translated from two different Greek Words, I don't know who did it, but someone in Modern times added the word to some made up doctrine they called Trinity and it just stuck around.

We are part of the God head Bodily. The Body of Christ, and make up the eternal rule now and to come with the Lord Jesus. In the modern Trinity Verson, they leave man out of the Family of the Most High, when Scripture includes us in.

I guess you have to get back to spraying your car with primer. I live in Branson, MO and lots of shows here and lots of Redneck jokes.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Brother Mike]

You are attempting to define the limits of God within creation - time and space; but as I said in another forum, God exists outside of time and space. You disagree as you have stated in another forum - but, if God created all things [matter, energy, time, space, etc] then He would have had to exist outside of them to create them

.

I like Star Trek, Watched it as a kid, still watch it today. I love Scripture even more though. ZERO scripture that God lives outside of time and space.

Your thinking of games like simcity, where we make cities, but don't actually live in the city, but watch outside the city, speeding up time and doing things to make the city better.

It's not a video Game Brother. To believe something about God, you need something called a Scripture.

When I teach the Word, I am very careful that someone does not bust me out asking for the scripture to support what I just said.

Like Jesus, the 2nd person in the Godhead. Where is that scripture Mike? Ummm, Ok.

Scripture only Gregg.

Time is a byproduct of Creation. God is not living outside of His creation for it's written God made the Heavens and the Earth, Jesus said my Father in Heaven, and it's Written, the Heavens belong to God, the Earth He gave to the Children of men.

God is not living outside of time. I would stop watching Star Trek for a bit.

 

[Gregg]

In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together....The Vatican Council has explained the meaning to be attributed to the term mystery in theology. It lays down that a mystery is a truth which we are not merely incapable of discovering apart from Divine Revelation, but which, even when revealed, remains “hidden by the veil of faith and enveloped, so to speak, by a kind of darkness” (Const., "De fide. cath.", iv). (Joyce G.H. The Blessed Trinity. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XV Copyright © 1912 by Robert Appleton Company Online Edition Copyright © 2003 by K. Knight)

I would suggest that the Name YHWH accounts for the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[Brother Mike]

I would suggest that the Name YHWH accounts for the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Man you post fast. You might suggest it, but I would not suggest it off anything a Cathloic wrote. Not that I am against them, but some of their Doctrines are suspect.

The Thread is about the Original and real Trinity Doctrine, by which we must be part of the Roman Cathloic Church or get burned at the stake I suppose. It's all in the real Trinity Doctrine.

There is only One God the Father, YHWH. Remember, God considered His son who has always been a servant for some odd reason. Isa 49. Acts 3:26.

Jesus said, the Father is Greater than I, and put all things back into subjection to the Father that He was given. 1 Cor 15

They are not the same persons.

Trying to prove 3 beings are One God in scripture is going to come off sounding like Oneness.

Trinity doctrine specifically states it just a Mystery. Even Martin Luthor whom I quoted said we both believe the same thing, why mess with it?

The Southern Baptist say its something the humun finite mind can't understand.
Methodist say it's a puzzle.

So to come here and say we have it figured out, would be a great accomplishment.

If there was scripture to support it that is.

 

[Gregg]

I like Star Trek, Watched it as a kid, still watch it today. I love Scripture even more though. ZERO scripture that God lives outside of time and space.

Your thinking of games like simcity, where we make cities, but don't actually live in the city, but watch outside the city, speeding up time and doing things to make the city better.

It's not a video Game Brother. To believe something about God, you need something called a Scripture.

When I teach the Word, I am very careful that someone does not bust me out asking for the scripture to support what I just said.

Like Jesus, the 2nd person in the Godhead. Where is that scripture Mike? Ummm, Ok.

Scripture only Gregg.

Time is a byproduct of Creation. God is not living outside of His creation for it's written God made the Heavens and the Earth, Jesus said my Father in Heaven, and it's Written, the Heavens belong to God, the Earth He gave to the Children of men.

God is not living outside of time. I would stop watching Star Trek for a bit.

Sometimes I simply do not know where to start with you, because you are confused about so many things; not in a simple way but to the nth degree.

"But will God in truth dwell on the earth? Behold, the heavens and the heavens of the heavens cannot contain You; how much less this house which I have built!" (1Kin 8:27 LITV).

 

[Gregg]

The Thread is about the Original and real Trinity Doctrine, by which we must be part of the Roman Cathloic Church or get burned at the stake I suppose. It's all in the real Trinity Doctrine.

Nor am I Catholic.

Let's be clear, you are portraying here what you think the real Trinity doctrine is; but you are greatly mistaken.

 

[eddif]

Time and space:
Let me see.
Day 4 (just from memory)
The big clock (universes to tell time and be space)
Day 4
Signs in heavens ( I guess blood moons show Jesus shed blood at beating, on cross, after death by spear in side), etc. Even a solar eclipse seems to show father turning back on Jesus. Every lunar cycle (as you see him go; so shall you see him come again).

As an aside. (With a few exceptions)
Symbols in man show a need for God. Kidneys remove toxins (type of sin).
Natural pacemaker looks like crucified man (Jesus crucified)

Symbols in Jesus are continual spirituals. Godly love shown in Jesus (man is usually brotherly of lower).

eddif

 

[Brother Mike]

Sometimes I simply do not know where to start with you, because you are confused about so many things; not in a simple way but to the nth degree.

"But will God in truth dwell on the earth? Behold, the heavens and the heavens of the heavens cannot contain You; how much less this house which I have built!" (1Kin 8:27 LITV).

What am I confused about Gregg? I say. In fact, I don't say it unless I have a Scripture.

Not only that, but a simple to read understanding, not a convulted, have to use 4 Greek Words, and 5 Hebrew to convey what I mean.

Like a lot of folks do with complicated doctrines of men.

People don't like things Simple Gregg, they hunt for half scriptures, bend them a bit to disprove a simple and easy to understand scripture.

Now if you have a scripture that God lives outside of time, that I missed with coutless debates over the past 17 years, I sure would like to have it.

I want to know how God operates, what to expect from God, and be able to explain it to others. I want it simple.

There is lots of junk out there Gregg. Like God answers prayer Yes, No, or Maybe.

God answers prayer Yes, No, Or maybe. How does someone know that? Because they prayed and some prayers were answered and some were not.

I use to tell folks that Gregg, Sometimes God does not answer the prayer, but knows better about what we need, even if we don't see it at the time.

I believed that until I read the many places that Prayer is always yes, and according to your petition.

Now, why are not all my prayers answered? I figured it best not to blame God for it, but find out what I am missing.

Anyway, You have no scripture that God lives outside of time. [violation of ToS 2.4.]

Cathloics, they believe lots of things not in scripture. [violation of ToS 2.4]

Time and space:
Let me see.
Day 4 (just from memory)
The big clock (universes to tell time and be space)
Day 4
Signs in heavens ( I guess blood moons show Jesus shed blood at beating, on cross, after death by spear in side), etc. Even a solar eclipse seems to show father turning back on Jesus. Every lunar cycle (as you see him go; so shall you see him come again).

As an aside. (With a few exceptions)
Symbols in man show a need for God. Kidneys remove toxins (type of sin).
Natural pacemaker looks like crucified man (Jesus crucified)

Symbols in Jesus are continual spirituals. Godly love shown in Jesus (man is usually brotherly of lower).

eddif

[violation of 2.4] I certainly did not get it.

You know, Jesus asked the Father to turn back time. I believe it's possible, else He would not have asked.

When He said, Father all things are possible to you, take this cup from me. In order to do that, God would have to erease the eternal Word that was recorded about him. Something eternal can not be changed, or be untrue. God's Word is that sure.

So, In order to fill Jesus request, then what was written still would have to be true about him, and the only way to fix that is to reverse time to the point God's word spoke about Jesus.

This is the only place Jesus said, "Father, I know all things are possible to you." It was just not a matter of the Father saying, Go ahead, You can do want you want, I'll save man anyway. I believe Jesus knew exactly what He was asking the Father to do.

Blessings.

 

[eddif]

The creator of time should be able to reverse it.
The creator of space should be able to traverse space in an instant.
The creator of matter should be able to walk through it.
The creator of the brain should be able to place visions and dreams in it.

God speaks in a quiet voice at creation. We see the physical, but God evidently intends the hidden message to be paramount.

When God asks Job: were you there when I put the beaches around the ocean? We think : why do you talk about waves having limits? Then we consider Job's body being touched, but his life spared (limits of Satan's wave power were set). Jesus interceding at the right hand of the Father; for us ( Jesus prayed for Peter before he experienced sifting).

Words can explain doctrine, but a simple vision or dream can convey a truth (even like an ox is used to explain a preacher). Out of nature comes an explanation that explains (devoid of the thousand words that we wish to present, but surely with the potential to provide the words).

Trinity. Just a word we wish to ascribe to the secrets hidden in creation ( Romans 1: 19-20 ). Godhead, trinity, sun/ moon/ light, man (somewhat on a lower level), Jesus on the highest spiritual level, etc.

Language was confounded at babel. The mighty works of God cross the language barrier. Each man hears in his own language. There is no Jew, Gentile, male, female, bond, free, weak, strong, etc. Christ Jesus broke down the wall and unifies us in Christ.

Words? On a possum hunt the dogs make the noise, but the hunters use signals. Rednecks just do not play fair (LOL). May all of us have the eyes of our understanding opened to the hope of our calling in Christ Jesus.

eddif

 

[Deborah13]

Language was confounded at babel. The mighty works of God cross the language barrier. Each man hears in his own language. There is no Jew, Gentile, male, female, bond, free, weak, strong, etc. Christ Jesus broke down the wall and unifies us in Christ. eddif

I never thought about this. Excellent. :nod

 

[Malachi]

Greetings Malachi. I buy into the original Trinity Doctrine somewhat, except the part about having to be part of the Roman Catholic Church.

Actually the Roman Catholic "dogma" of the Trinity is exactly what all Christians believe (from the Catholic Encyclopedia):

The dogma of the Trinity The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central

doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.
Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent. This, the Church teaches, is the revelation regarding God's nature which Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came upon earth to deliver to the world: and which she proposes to man as the foundation of her whole dogmatic system.
In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word trias (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A.D. 180. He speaks of "the Trinity of God [the Father], His Word and His Wisdom (To Autolycus II.15). The term may, of course, have been in use before his time. Afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian (On Pudicity 21). In the next century the word is in general use. It is found in many passages of Origen ("In Ps. xvii", 15). The first creed in which it appears is that of Origen's pupil, Gregory Thaumaturgus. In his Ekthesis tes pisteos composed between 260 and 270, he writes:

So Rome is really a strawman, because Scripture supports the above.

However, to say the One true God is the Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost is a Modalist statement, not a Trinity Statement. You reversed the Order.

Modalism teaches that God is a SINGLE PERSON. Trinitarianism teaches that there are THREE DIVINE PERSONS yet one God.
Once again, you are off track (see carm.org):

Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God. It is a denial of the Trinity. Modalism states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son; and after Jesus' ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, this view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time--only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three persons in the Trinity even though it retains the divinity of Christ.

My Statement is that this Triune God is not found in Scriptures.

But "GODHEAD" is found in Scripture so "triune Godhead" is correct -- three Divine Persons but only one God. Just because it does not occur as a term within Scripture does not make it suspect. Elohiym (God) is a plural noun and God did say "Let US make man in OUR image and in OUR likeness".

 

[Free]

Free, the part about 3 being one, Rome calls a mystery. I can dig more up if you like. A Mystery not found in scriptures, your determination to hold onto some Cathloic Doctrine is holding you back here. I just used One page out of many in hopes you would get the point.

Dig up more what? Point about what? The Bible is clear that there is, has been, and always will be only one God, YHWH. Yet, the Bible is also clear that the Father is YHWH, the Son is YHWH, the Holy Spirit is YHWH, and yet they still remain distinct from each other. That is the mystery.

I am not sure what you consider a Polytheist.

Well, by definition, a polytheist is someone who believes in the existence of more than one God. That is unbiblical and not therefore not Christian.

Paul said One Father God and One Lord Jesus Christ, I count two, so I guess I am in the same boat Paul is in.

Paul said a lot of things and they need to be taken in context to be properly understood. Suffice it to say that Paul did not say here what you make him out to be saying.

It takes a convulted Doctrine to forget how to add.

Please knock it off. Personal attacks like this contribute nothing.

And your Idea that the Base of Christianity invovles some trinity Doctrine, Makes you 3 steps away from getting those rose beads out to pray.

Again, such comments are unnecessary. That there is only one God is a core, fundamental Christian belief. One cannot be a Christian and believe in the existence of more than one God. Another core belief is that Jesus is God, yet not the Father. These are inescapable for the Christian.

There are ZERO Scriptures that tell us there is ONE GOD.

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me,

Isa 45:14 Thus says the LORD: "The wealth of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush, and the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over to you and be yours; they shall follow you; they shall come over in chains and bow down to you. They will plead with you, saying: 'Surely God is in you, and there is no other, no god besides him.'"

Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Isa 45:21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
Isa 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Isa 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,

(All from the ESV).

In light of the above Scripture where God himself says very clearly that there is no other god, do you still think there are "ZERO Scriptures that tell us there is ONE GOD"? If God says there is no other, that means he is a one and only.

There is ONE LORD GOD, No other like Him or other gods.

Exactly. There is no other God so why do you believe that Jesus is a different God?

There is One Servant Isa 49, whom is the Light and Lord Jesus Christ. Not my words, but God's. Also in acts 3:26 I believe.

And what are you trying to say here?

The Father calls the Son God. A simple to read and understand scripture.

Heb 1:8 kjva But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

That Makes 2 Free. Count them.

I don't disagree with those Scriptures but they only make sense within the doctrine of the Trinity. You are promoting polytheism which is not a Christian doctrine, and this by taking things out of context.

And though Jesus was called a servant by the Father, Once we Get to Hebrews 1:8 He is fully God, Just like His Father, if not before.

Again, I fully agree.

How you just say there is one and forget simple math is the real mystery here.

Because, as I have shown clearly with Scripture, there is and always has been only one God. One God, three persons. That is the mystery. Polytheism has no place in Christianity.

One Lord God, whom there is no God like. One Lord Jesus Christ, whom is also God.

There is only one Lord God who is also the one and only God. The Father is YHWH, the Son is YHWH, and the Holy Spirit is YHWH. One God, three persons.

Jud 1:4 kjva For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

There is only one Saviour, One Lord God, One Creator. That does not erease the son, make the son less God, and does not make it only ONE GOD.

Just to make sure your OK, How many gods you count in Jud 1:4?

Jud 1:4 kjva For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ

If you get this right, then you would get the other 51 scriptures correct also.

Thanks for at least taking the time to reply to my thread.

There is only one God.

 

[Brother Mike]

Free you postsed the same scriptures I did above, there is Only One Lord God. Jud said the same thing, and I asked something very simple.

Count how many God's you see in that scripture.

One Lord God, One Lord Jesus Christ.

IF Larry and Joy were standing side by side, and I asked you to count how many humans you see, you would have no issues.

That tells me a lot Free.

You can't acknowledge in 52 sciptures there is a son and FAther, 2 God's, but believe a handful of scriptures you think you believe say only one God.

52 V.S 5

You say the scriptures only make sense with the Doctrine of the Trinity, but the scriptures came first Free. The Trinity Doctrine never said there was one God, you said that based on what?

Jesus is of the same Substance and essence of the Father. That is all the Doctrine said.

I posted it for you, read it again if you have to.

You can't acknowled the Father and Son, You Say things can only be understood by a Cathloic Doctrine but not Cathloic and a doctrine much newer than the Word of God.
You could not count and answer a simple question.

Free I am lost for Words. I was hoping after time passed by, you would have had time to look over things once again. I am hoping you still do.

And no Free, there is no Scripture stateing The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are YHWH. In Fact the ONly Lord God called the Son Servant, not YHWH in ISa and Acts.

The FAther did not call the Son God until Hebrews.
I know the scriptures Free, to believe something You need scripture. You see the Son with the Father at the Tower of Babel, and making Adam. Nothing there denotes they are the same being. Trinity would say there are two anyway, until pressed then they say they are one. Trinity keeps the seperate.

Until your able to be honest and say, I see One Lord God and One Lord Jesus Christ in that Scripture, that makes Two. No point in continuing here.

I know it would be more easy if I were a JW or Mormon. They don't even know the doctrine they don't like. I know the scripture Free.

Be blessed.

Actually the Roman Catholic "dogma" of the Trinity is exactly what all Christians believe (from the Catholic Encyclopedia):



So Rome is really a strawman, because Scripture supports the above.


Modalism teaches that God is a SINGLE PERSON. Trinitarianism teaches that there are THREE DIVINE PERSONS yet one God.
Once again, you are off track (see carm.org):



But "GODHEAD" is found in Scripture so "triune Godhead" is correct -- three Divine Persons but only one God. Just because it does not occur as a term within Scripture does not make it suspect. Elohiym (God) is a plural noun and God did say "Let US make man in OUR image and in OUR likeness".

What are we talking about here Malachi. I said the Word Godhead is a English word for Two differnt Greek words that mean different things. In Romans it means God's eternal power.