Not really, the seven trumpets are still chronological, following the seven seals which are also chronological, the seventh seal being the prelude to the first trumpet. Same for the seven bowls following the seven signs.
You're just saying that, and certainly not proving it. I get it--it's your theory.
But you have to admit, John sees the vision of the Scroll with 7 seals. "Then" he sees the vision of the Dragon, Woman, and the 2 Beasts.
The order John sees these visions is clearly *not* in chronological order--not even if John sees one thing, and "then" sees another thing. The order John sees these visions are not chronological because before he sees the vision of the Dragon, the Kingdom has already come in ch. 11.
Quite the contrary, the church age is the punishment of Israel...
Didn't I just say that? Or maybe you just made a typing error?
, it's called "times of the gentiles" because Israel is being dominated by other nations, and Israel is being spiritually blind to the gospel. In the Great Tribulation, though, Israel is being sealed, they finally shouted, "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!" as Jesus lamented at the end of Matt. 23.
I see the Great Tribulation as being the entire period of the New Testament, in which Israel is punished. And so, it would include the end of the age, as well, when Antichrist rises up and afflicts the world with his abuses.
So I do understand that when many refer to the Reign of Antichrist as the "Great Tribulation," what they're really saying is that the era will be tribulational, as it has been at various times throughout the NT age.
They just think it was be a "greater" tribulation only because the Antichrist will be the worst of them all. But in reality, all of them have been equally bad, as I see it.
Also, it is mentioned that the fig tree is shaking off its figs, this is a contrast to the fig tree judgement during Jesus's ministry where Jesus found the fig tree barren and fruitless. Fig tree is Israel, figs are spiritual fruits. The fig tree withered at first, then it puts forth leaves near the end, and in the end it bears fruits, the symbolism is consistent.
I suppose you've already got your favored interpretation, and are now just trying to fit it into the passage. But as I said, that's not what the text actually says.
The passage does not define the leafing of the fig tree as the rebirth of the State of Israel. Rather, it indicates a time when things look promising, ie when their Messiah has come, and yet they produce no fruit.
Instead, signs of imminent national judgment appear, which Jesus called "birth pains." But the only birth they had as a State was a still birth, and the only real birth they had was Jesus, and they killed him.
And so, the best they produced was a small remnant of believers called "Christians." So, I suppose we can say that the Fig Tree grew leaves and bore some limited fruit?
We shouldn't add anything, neither should we take away anything. I merely pointed out what's already there, especially some overlooked details, then connected the dots.
Yes, you can connect dots if the text actually warrants it. But doctrine is formed from explicit statements in the Scriptures--not just "connecting dots" based on non-explicit supposed "facts."
You can argue about others, but the seven trumpets must chronologically follow the seven seals, the seven plagues must chronologicallyfollow the seven signs, indicated in 8:2 and 8:6, 15:1 and 16:1, respectively. This is not merely an order of what's shown to apostle John, but an internal logical order - how can an angel blow a trumpet without receiving a trumpet first? How can an angel pour out a bowl without receiving a bowl first?
You are confusing the chronology of the imagery with the chronology of what the imagery represented. The picking up of a trump is not fulfilled by a literal trumpet being picked up. It is fulfilled by God's word informing angels to act.
The trumpet is imagery designed to show us God's intention, which was to declare an event should take place. Determining the importance of picking up a trumpet before blowing it is irrelevant to the point of the passage, which was simply having angels blow trumpets to represent events God has decreed.
And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. (Rev. 8:2)
So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. (Rev. 8:6)
Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete. (Rev. 15:1)
Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.” (Rev. 16:1)
As I said before, there surely is some chronological sequence taking place. But we need to separate the chronology of the imagery from the chronology of the events that imagery represents.
The imagery of 7 trumpets may suggest that they all are blown at once, even if for John's sake they are separated into 7 trumpets to show John the significance of each one separately.
Or, there may be more of an intensification of these judgments in progression--I can't say I know since much symbolism is being used. The Egyptian plagues took place sequentially and chronologically. The typology of the Last Plagues is formed after the type of the Egyptian plagues, but does not have to immitate its literal order and sequence.
But I'm glad you're working on these things, trying to understand them--just as I am. They represent our future. And we're told we're blessed in trying to "do them."
But more than just try to interpret them, we need to follow any righteousness implied by them! And I believe that message is that we need to stand fast against satanic opposition, and opposition from the ungodly world. Take care, and stay on the alert.
