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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The Root of It
- Thread starter lovely
- Start date
lovely said:
And here is the fundamental flaw of the traditionalist. Christ didn't come to save me from some 'hellish fire' designed to punish those as the sole purpose for sinning. Christ came to save me from (and experience) death which is the result of separation from God. Adam was tempted with the false belief 'You shall not surely die!' When Adam sinned, God said 'and dying you shall die'. This was the end for Adam...but Christ came to make a way.
There was not 'eternal torment' to be saved from. John 3:16 in conjunction with Romans 6:23 show that death is our future without Christ. The death that Adam brought, Christ brought life
"For as in Adam all DIE, so In Christ shall all be made ALIVE"
Lovely, you are taking the death and afterlife presented in the parable too literally. There are numerous verses in the OT that let you know the state of the dead, some of which are “the dead know nothingâ€Â, “the dead do not give praise†and so on. If the afterlife in the parable is taken literally then many verses in the OT about death start contradicting NT. We don’t need to interpret OT in light of NT. We should interpret NT in light OT. Now that being said, in the parable the rich man recognized Abraham’s bosom and Lazarus, this contradicts “the dead know nothingâ€Â. Can you imagine Lazarus not praising once he found himself in Abraham’s bosom? If he did it would contradict “the dead do not give praiseâ€Â.lovely said:
Pay close attention to what Jesus is drawing fear to, is it the fear of eternal soul in hell or the fear of destruction of soul in hell?
So you would rather people perish than to see them in the new kingdom? Am I reading you right?
No, Christ came to save you from death, the wages of sin.
Everyone seem to take “no longer exist†so easily. There IS absolutely judgment of the wicked. The process of “no longer existing†is not a pleasurable experience, I would think. Each will receive according to their evil deeds. Lets say you haven’t accepted Jesus lovely, now how much sin have you accumulated in your life that you think you personally deserve eternal punishing?
Redemption is from death of sin unto life. Jesus was not resurrected from hell, He was resurrected from death.
I will leave you with this,
Psalm 103:8The LORD [is] merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. 9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep [his anger] for ever.
lovely
Member
Hello guibox,
guibox wrote:
This is not only NOT Biblical, but you continue to read Scripture in the way you define it, rather than allowing the Word to define itself.
And, if we continue, my name is Tina, and I am a believer given over to Scripture. I have not made an appeal to any tradition, or authority, other than the Word of God. And it is my intent to treat you with love, and respect, by being truthful about what I see in the Word. However, I am not some demeaning label (perhaps a logical fallacy on your part?) like, a Traditionalist, that you either consciously, or unconsciously, believe leans credibility to your comments. I believe the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and place my faith in them alone, and so I would appreciate not being misrepresented in such a manner because you disagree with me.
Romans 5
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
We were once enemies of God, but have been given an atonement through Christ according to these verses. I was an enemy of God, and headed for destruction, death, eternal wrath, eternal damnation, perishing, going to Hell, and so on....but because I believe Christ, He came and died for my sin, so that I shall not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Consider the Scriptures below when you read about the death I was headed for when you define it.
Matthew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels..." 45 "...Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Revelation 14
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
The Lord bless you.
guibox wrote:
This is not only NOT Biblical, but you continue to read Scripture in the way you define it, rather than allowing the Word to define itself.
And, if we continue, my name is Tina, and I am a believer given over to Scripture. I have not made an appeal to any tradition, or authority, other than the Word of God. And it is my intent to treat you with love, and respect, by being truthful about what I see in the Word. However, I am not some demeaning label (perhaps a logical fallacy on your part?) like, a Traditionalist, that you either consciously, or unconsciously, believe leans credibility to your comments. I believe the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and place my faith in them alone, and so I would appreciate not being misrepresented in such a manner because you disagree with me.
Interesting that this says ALIVE, and not eternal life...but I suppose we can assume that's what it means given other Scriptures indicate that alive and life, are everlasting.
Romans 5
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
We were once enemies of God, but have been given an atonement through Christ according to these verses. I was an enemy of God, and headed for destruction, death, eternal wrath, eternal damnation, perishing, going to Hell, and so on....but because I believe Christ, He came and died for my sin, so that I shall not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Consider the Scriptures below when you read about the death I was headed for when you define it.
Matthew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels..." 45 "...Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Revelation 14
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
The Lord bless you.
lovely (or lurv-ly if Celine Dion were saying it :P ), I apologize if you feel I have labeled you in any way...
However, your fundamental flaw is interpreting 'death' as some form of conscious existence, and then reading that back into John 3:16 and Matthew 25:41. When one understands the issue of the sin problem and the language used to describe its remedy, one cannot but come to the same conclusion I have (I encourage you to look at my 'Death, destroy,'destruction' thread to see how the Bible uses these words in their Hebrew and Greek forms).
Please show me where I have interpreted the bible incorrectly? Where in Romans 6:23 or John 3:16 are the words 'death' and 'perish' not to be taken literally or must be interpreted by a symbolic passage in Revelation 14?
Please show me from the scriptures that I am wrong in saying that Adam's sin brought death and that is what Christ came to save us from?
How can you possibly tell me that this concept that permeates the scriptures and is part of salvation history (that sin brings death) is 'not biblical'?
However, your fundamental flaw is interpreting 'death' as some form of conscious existence, and then reading that back into John 3:16 and Matthew 25:41. When one understands the issue of the sin problem and the language used to describe its remedy, one cannot but come to the same conclusion I have (I encourage you to look at my 'Death, destroy,'destruction' thread to see how the Bible uses these words in their Hebrew and Greek forms).
Please show me where I have interpreted the bible incorrectly? Where in Romans 6:23 or John 3:16 are the words 'death' and 'perish' not to be taken literally or must be interpreted by a symbolic passage in Revelation 14?
Please show me from the scriptures that I am wrong in saying that Adam's sin brought death and that is what Christ came to save us from?
How can you possibly tell me that this concept that permeates the scriptures and is part of salvation history (that sin brings death) is 'not biblical'?
S
Solo
Guest
Lovely,
Back in my babe in Christ Jesus days I attended a 30 day crusade held by Seventh Day Adventist Joe Crews. He hit the gehenna, hades, sheol piece pretty hard describing hell as being non-literal. It is taught by the Seventh-Day Adventists to all within their fellowship. It is a false teaching, and most of the cults from mormons, Jehovah witnesses, Herbert Armstrong, and Ellen G. White Seventh Day Adventist all teach that hell doesn't exist. It is a doctrine of devils to keep people from living the truth. Remember what the ole devil said to Eve in the Garden. Did God say that. He didn't mean that, he meant something much different. He was just keeping the better from you. Etc. Etc.
False doctrines are easy to spot, and those that have quenched the Holy Spirit will not see until they repent. God bless you for the stand which you are taking.
God bless you and yours,
Michael
Back in my babe in Christ Jesus days I attended a 30 day crusade held by Seventh Day Adventist Joe Crews. He hit the gehenna, hades, sheol piece pretty hard describing hell as being non-literal. It is taught by the Seventh-Day Adventists to all within their fellowship. It is a false teaching, and most of the cults from mormons, Jehovah witnesses, Herbert Armstrong, and Ellen G. White Seventh Day Adventist all teach that hell doesn't exist. It is a doctrine of devils to keep people from living the truth. Remember what the ole devil said to Eve in the Garden. Did God say that. He didn't mean that, he meant something much different. He was just keeping the better from you. Etc. Etc.
False doctrines are easy to spot, and those that have quenched the Holy Spirit will not see until they repent. God bless you for the stand which you are taking.
God bless you and yours,
Michael
Solo, do I really need to make a list (again) of those evangelical and reformed scholars who deny eternal torment? Do I really need to make a list merely scratching the surface of those since the Reformers (including some of the reformers) and down through the ages who have denied the immortality of the soul as unbiblical?
Far from a 'cultic' belief...Please get off the 'cult' kick you are on. It is misleading, incorrect and just plain boring and redundant.
Far from a 'cultic' belief...Please get off the 'cult' kick you are on. It is misleading, incorrect and just plain boring and redundant.
C
CP_Mike
Guest
lovely said:
Simply to the point. Biblically speaking, there is no such thing as an eternal soul whether a believer or unbeliever.
Bottom line is that the Hebrews had no notion of 'nephesh' being eternal' and all the scriptures in the OT and NT blow away the Greek idea that we are incarnated souls.
Numbers 23:10
Ezekiel 18:4
Genesis 3:19
S
Solo
Guest
Do I have to present to you the beliefs of the Jehovah Witnesses, the Mormons, the Herbert Armstrong World Wide Church of God and splinter groups, the Seventh-Day Adventists, the Christadelphians, etc. etc. to show the cultic characteristics of their teachings? Do you disagree with Jesus' teachings in the false teachers being more prevelant in the latter days than the first, as you disagree with his teachings concerning hell?guibox said:
Your position is cute and tidy, but is not fully credible in relation to the entire scriptures. Your position is like satan's position when he tempted Jesus with scripture. Jesus showed him the scripture that was adequate for the temptation, with the whole council of God. Your council ignores important portions.
lovely
Member
Tan,
I just read your post, and I think much of it is answered in my post to guibox.
As far as me preferring to see anyone in everlasting torment, then no I do not prefer that, just as my Lord doesn't. 1 Timothy 2
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
However, I have been portrayed in that light for believing what the Word says about God's wrath, and usually by those who would call me sister.
My point was, in my last post, that if God's wrath is nothing more than death, then there is nothing to fear if it simply means no longer existing...and many today, especially atheists, could actually opt for that penalty in peace, and do in their minds already, since they do not believe in God, or His judgement. If there are no consequences to sin, and non-existence doesn't seem to be one to them, or me, then why does man need atonement, and why will man be judged for His deeds?
Romans 2 "1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;"
I believe the parables depicting Hell, and eternal torment, were designed to give us an accurate picture of the consequences of being God's enemy in a world the erases consequences due to the deceptive lies of the deceiver. Yes, he's still at it.
If you view these parables from the most simple literary perspective, the allegory of Hell must be an accurate picture...at least, in that it's torment, and everlasting. I think it is illogical to see Hell as the only exception to this hard and fast rule...especially when we apply it so consistently to all the other parables, and symbols, in God's Word. God does not lie, and would not paint us a picture that misrepresents such an important place. It's significant on far too many levels, and God is Truth.
The Lord bless you.
I just read your post, and I think much of it is answered in my post to guibox.
As far as me preferring to see anyone in everlasting torment, then no I do not prefer that, just as my Lord doesn't. 1 Timothy 2
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
However, I have been portrayed in that light for believing what the Word says about God's wrath, and usually by those who would call me sister.
My point was, in my last post, that if God's wrath is nothing more than death, then there is nothing to fear if it simply means no longer existing...and many today, especially atheists, could actually opt for that penalty in peace, and do in their minds already, since they do not believe in God, or His judgement. If there are no consequences to sin, and non-existence doesn't seem to be one to them, or me, then why does man need atonement, and why will man be judged for His deeds?
Romans 2 "1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;"
I believe the parables depicting Hell, and eternal torment, were designed to give us an accurate picture of the consequences of being God's enemy in a world the erases consequences due to the deceptive lies of the deceiver. Yes, he's still at it.
If you view these parables from the most simple literary perspective, the allegory of Hell must be an accurate picture...at least, in that it's torment, and everlasting. I think it is illogical to see Hell as the only exception to this hard and fast rule...especially when we apply it so consistently to all the other parables, and symbols, in God's Word. God does not lie, and would not paint us a picture that misrepresents such an important place. It's significant on far too many levels, and God is Truth.
The Lord bless you.
C
CP_Mike
Guest
Solo said:
Solo,
The view that there is no such thing as an immortal soul is more widespread than you think.
Firstly, the Hebrews never believed it.
The Lutherians don't accept it:
http://www.elca.org/questions/Results.asp?recid=32
The anabaptists don't believe in immortal soul doctrine either.
And here is the website theology/teaching course I did and please look at the sponsors, supporters and the denominations that attend.
http://www.workshop.org.uk/
Now, I know all of us loves God's word and we all seek the truth. But I say we need to throw off the Greek pagan philisophical influence its had on our faith and return to its Hebrew root understandings and see it God's way, not Plato, Aristotle or someone elses way.
Even Oscar posted a huge post proving the influence on Hebrew thinking from the Greeks whether he realised he was posting it or not.
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... sc&start=0
lovely
Member
guibox,
For this you are gladly forgiven. :D
I have looked at them, and I have no problem with them. I imagine you could come up with a similar list for the words live, life, and alive. I think we would all consider it a flaw for someone to say that we gain life, but only a second one that may be a the same length, or a bit longer, than this one. We know that the life we gain is everlasting, because Scripture says so in other places. I think that it only makes sense that the same applies to death. We see it written as death, perish, destory, etc. in many places, but we also have many verses that indicate that it is everlasting, wrath, torment, etc. The flaw is that we must use Scripture to define Scripture. Anyway, I am not sure there is much more than that to add to this.
The Lord bless you
For this you are gladly forgiven. :D
I have looked at them, and I have no problem with them. I imagine you could come up with a similar list for the words live, life, and alive. I think we would all consider it a flaw for someone to say that we gain life, but only a second one that may be a the same length, or a bit longer, than this one. We know that the life we gain is everlasting, because Scripture says so in other places. I think that it only makes sense that the same applies to death. We see it written as death, perish, destory, etc. in many places, but we also have many verses that indicate that it is everlasting, wrath, torment, etc. The flaw is that we must use Scripture to define Scripture. Anyway, I am not sure there is much more than that to add to this.
The Lord bless you
lovely
Member
Hi Mike,
I would like to know your thoughts on this passage in 1 Samuel...
1 Samuel 27:9-16
9 And David smote the land, and left neither man nor woman alive, and took away the sheep, and the oxen, and the asses, and the camels, and the apparel, and returned, and came to Achish.
10 And Achish said, Whither have ye made a road to day? And David said, Against the south of Judah, and against the south of the Jerahmeelites, and against the south of the Kenites.
11 And David saved neither man nor woman alive, to bring tidings to Gath, saying, Lest they should tell on us, saying, So did David, and so will be his manner all the while he dwelleth in the country of the Philistines.
12 And Achish believed David, saying, He hath made his people Israel utterly to abhor him; therefore he shall be my servant for ever.
The Lord bless you, Mike.
I would like to know your thoughts on this passage in 1 Samuel...
1 Samuel 27:9-16
9 And David smote the land, and left neither man nor woman alive, and took away the sheep, and the oxen, and the asses, and the camels, and the apparel, and returned, and came to Achish.
10 And Achish said, Whither have ye made a road to day? And David said, Against the south of Judah, and against the south of the Jerahmeelites, and against the south of the Kenites.
11 And David saved neither man nor woman alive, to bring tidings to Gath, saying, Lest they should tell on us, saying, So did David, and so will be his manner all the while he dwelleth in the country of the Philistines.
12 And Achish believed David, saying, He hath made his people Israel utterly to abhor him; therefore he shall be my servant for ever.
The Lord bless you, Mike.
C
CP_Mike
Guest
lovely said:
Sounded like David gained Achish's trust..You have to forgive me, but...what has this to do withthe OP?
lovely
Member
Forgive me! :-D
Let me try this again...
1 Samuel 28:9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
10 And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
Saul, hearing his ruin foretold, faints
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
Sorry, Mike, and the Lord bless you. :-D
Let me try this again...
1 Samuel 28:9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
10 And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
Saul, hearing his ruin foretold, faints
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
Sorry, Mike, and the Lord bless you. :-D
Gabbylittleangel
Member
Gabbylittleangel said:
lovely said:
Amen.
Somehow, I knew that you would be able to say it better than I.
S
SputnikBoy
Guest
lovely said:
But 'the Lord' designed a place for eternal torment anyway ...?
I wonder how the logic behind this testimony would stand up in a court of law ...?
Solo said:
So? Hare Krishnas, Buddhism and even Satanism, preach some sort of love for their family one way or another. Does that make love an Eastern Religion/Satanic concept?
As I pointed out in my other threads, the denial of the immortality of the soul and eternal torment, BASED ON BIBLICAL REASON ALONE predate any modern day 'cult' as you like to classify them as.
Solo said:
My dear Solo. It is YOUR position that ignores important portions. If you take away Revelation 14, 20 and Luke 16, all highly symbolic and metaphorical passages, your position is left with nothing. And yet verse after verse, chapter after chapter from Genesis to Revelation CLEARLY verify and support the complete annihilation of God's enemies from this earth, the eradication of sin and the resurrection of the dead and not the immortality of the soul.
Who is ignoring the whole of the bible? It is not I my friend.
