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THE SABBATH

wondering said:
As you must know, I know nothing about eschatology.
I understand that we rest in Jesus every day, but one day is set aside for worship in a special way.
Before the resurrection it was on the 7th day, Saturday.
Now we celebrate on the 1st day, Sunday...to celebrate the resurrection.

I believe the Apostles had already changed the day and so I don't believe the CC had anything to do with it.
(as some on this thread believe).

I'm a bit confused, and cannot clear this in my mind, that although worship is ceremonial and the ceremonial laws have been abolished....
the rest day is the 4th commandment and the commandments have NOT been abolished.

But I don't think about this too much, but cannot come to a firm understanding.
I go to church on Sunday.
Click to expand...

You made some good points.

The rest to come will be rest from all our enemies, which of course includes the battle between our sinful flesh and the Spirit, because we will have glorified sinless bodies that will never die and shines like the sun.

Just like His. Hallelujah!!!


For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17







JLB
 
JLB said:
You made some good points.

The rest to come will be rest from all our enemies, which of course includes the battle between our sinful flesh and the Spirit, because we will have glorified sinless bodies that will never die and shines like the sun.

Just like His. Hallelujah!!!


For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17
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It's you who taught me not to say that I'm a sinner, because that denotes my nature,
but to say I'm a child of God because we are children of God that sin, because sin is possible.

But, yes, we still can sin, but I do have to say that as we mature in the word and keep God close, we do tend to sin less and less. I firmly believe this is the outcome of persons that are following Jesus and are AWARE of Him at all times.
The tendency is to avoid sin.

I say this to encourage those reading along that feel that they will never conquer the sin nature...
be assured that it is under submission to you and to the Holy Spirit...Let the Holy Spirit guide you more and more.
 
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Reactions: JLB
atpollard said:
No, I do not believe that the Catholic Church is the First Church. [Not to feel bad, I don’t think any church existing holds that honor and every Christian living is part of the “invisible church” descended from that church.] I have read the book of Acts and no church existing seems to follow that model except a few heretical cults like Jim Jones.

By about the Fourth Century, the CHURCH (which was the Original Church) became respectable and gained political power and as always happens … political power corrupts the Church. That was about the time that the Original Church stopped being the church of Christ’s People and became the Church of the Clerical Hierarchy. My Baptist prejudices are probably showing, but I view WEALTHY Bishops exerting political power over a Professional CLERGY CLASS who rule the People Of God that are not fit to read scripture on their own as a VERY BAD THING and the Fourth Century birth of the Catholic Church. (Followed by increasing politicizing and greed in the church that resulted in the Great Schism over whose Kingdom was biggest and most important [begin sarcasm] exactly how Christ dreamt His church would be. [end sarcasm]
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Oh wait.
I didn't say the TRUE church,
I said the FIRST church.
I don't know that any church is the true church.

I don't want to change the topic here...
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Almost.
What the Catholic church did was declare the Sunday meeting to be the new Sabbath observance, not just the official day the church meets on as it had been doing.

They went so far as to outlaw the 7th day Sabbath. Which, apparently, is where our ignorance of the law comes from. For it is not forbidden to keep the 7th day Sabbath. It is forbidden to keep it for the purpose of being justified. This ignorance remains in the church to this day.
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But it IS the new Sabbath observance....
I don't understand the difference.
(or I just like talking to you).


BTW, Mass is held on Saturday too....whatever that means.
It's for convenience purposes for those that work on Sunday.
(like the churches are just chock full of persons rearing to get to Mass)
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Because the Catholic church bears no resemblence whatsoever to what the Apostle Paul says to do in a meeting of the saints.


The church of the Apostles.

And Paul himself said it wasn't going to last long before the wolves came into it (Acts 20:29). And, apparently, that's exactly what happened. The church ceased to be Jewish and was taken over and lorded over by gentile leaders who brought their pagan traditions and beliefs with them into the church.
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It's interesting how we see history differently.

I see the first church as being the CC because I do believe Peter was the first Bishop of Rome and it was Rome that was looked to by the other Bishops as the authoritative branch.

I see that the CC kept many heresies out of the early church - whatever you wish to call it.
It had to become hierarchal in order to survive with all the wolves entering it, as you've stated.

But this is another topic.
 
wondering said:
Oh wait.
I didn't say the TRUE church,
I said the FIRST church.
I don't know that any church is the true church.

I don't want to change the topic here...
Click to expand...
If even 1 member belongs to CHRIST, then that church (local gathering of people) is part of the TRUE CHURCH (the Body of Christ here on Earth). He has "His People" EVERYWHERE! :cool
 
wondering said:
see the first church as being the CC because I do believe Peter was the first Bishop of Rome and it was Rome that was looked to by the other Bishops as the authoritative branch.
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That was James in the book of Acts that was looked to as "in charge" (Acts 15:13; Acts 21:18). Sadly, they ALL forgot what Jesus said about being in authority (Matthew 20:24-28) and, so, we get Bishops OVER the Priests OVER God's People (rather than David, the gentle shepherd, vigilantly PROTECTING the Flock.)
 
atpollard said:
That was James in the book of Acts that was looked to as "in charge" (Acts 15:13; Acts 21:18). Sadly, they ALL forgot what Jesus said about being in authority (Matthew 20:24-28) and, so, we get Bishops OVER the Priests OVER God's People (rather than David, the gentle shepherd, vigilantly PROTECTING the Flock.)
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I just can't debate this.
James was the head of the church (the bldg church) in Jerusalem - not Rome.
It's Peter that was the authority figure in the early church.
It seems like you know church history - how could you not know this?
Do I have to link something?
 
wondering said:
It seems like you know church history - how could you not know this?
Do I have to link something?
Click to expand...
Remember, I'm a Baptist ... so Acts is HISTORY AND TRADITION while letters from people a hundred or two hundred years later (ECFs) are just "RUMORS" to me. (No mention of the Bishop of Rome in Scripture; just the Jerusalem Council to decide ecumenical matters and a letter dictated by James.) 😉
 
atpollard said:
Remember, I'm a Baptist ... so Acts is HISTORY AND TRADITION while letters from people a hundred or two hundred years later (ECFs) are just "RUMORS" to me. (No mention of the Bishop of Rome in Scripture; just the Jerusalem Council to decide ecumenical matters and a letter dictated by James.) 😉
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OK.
Anyway, there's so much to read regarding the set up of the early church.
There's doubt as to whether Peter was ever in Rome or not.
Then I read that the other Bishops turned to him for help in doctrinal issue or faith issues.
We'll drop it.
 
I was just watching a video today about Justin Martyr. When he got to Rome sometime around 150 AD the church was composed of home churches and had no central authority. That's a long time after the death of Peter (64-68 AD).
 
wondering said:
But it IS the new Sabbath observance....
I don't understand the difference.
(or I just like talking to you).


BTW, Mass is held on Saturday too....whatever that means.
It's for convenience purposes for those that work on Sunday.
(like the churches are just chock full of persons rearing to get to Mass)
Click to expand...
Irc the local parish nearest to me doesn't hold Saturday mass
 
wondering said:
There's a difference regarding the Sabbath.
Reformed theology and Calvinist theology differ somewhat.

One believes the Sabbath was CHANGED.
One believes the Sabbath was ABOLISHED.

Could anyone here inform me which is which,
and what the difference is between CHANGED and ABOLISHED?

If not,
No problem.
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Jesus made the statement Sabbath was made for man, not other way. Sabbath does have good intention but making it externally imposed like a law will become burdensome. Jesus also said he did not come to abolish the law. But he changed our hearts and minds to see sabbath internally, there are days I cannot follow strict sabbath on a particular day and time. Thanks
 
Dorothy Mae said:
The Gentiles didn’t ever observe the Sabbath. They met the first day of the week. But God wants us to rest once a day, whatever day that works. So they weren’t “released” from something that never bound them.
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You can do whatever you want maam. What is a Gentile Dorothy?
 
loveendures said:
Jesus made the statement Sabbath was made for man, not other way. Sabbath does have good intention but making it externally imposed like a law will become burdensome. Jesus also said he did not come to abolish the law. But he changed our hearts and minds to see sabbath internally, there are days I cannot follow strict sabbath on a particular day and time. Thanks
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Hi lovendures,
What does your last sentence mean?

The Sabbath is one of the commandments.
Is YOU SHALL NOT STEAL considered to be an externally imposed law?
What's the difference? If any.
 
wondering said:
Hi lovendures,
What does your last sentence mean?

The Sabbath is one of the commandments.
Is YOU SHALL NOT STEAL considered to be an externally imposed law?
What's the difference? If any.
Click to expand...
The covenant was to isreal.

Noah wasn't under a shabbat command nor abraham
 
wondering said:
Hmm. I don't think I mentioned Abraham or Noah being under a Sabbath command.
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But Noah is a gentile ,Abraham is the father of the Hebrew nation .

My point is that surely Abraham and Noah took time to fellowship with God

How many actually as I have ,worked on Sunday,?
How many complain about working on Sunday and then go to a business open ?
Water plants and utilities don't shut off for Sunday .
They don't shut down for Christmas either not Easter .
 
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