THE SABBATH

[Dorothy Mae]

I don't see any Catholic bashing.
I don't care for bashing and do my best to avoid it.

The question is:
How did the Sabbath change to Sunday.
Was it changed by the Apostles or by the CC?

If you notice, this thread has been changed to Apologetics.

The problem is you are assuming that someone decided to officially change the day christians meet together and made it an official edict. That it simply developed out of habit is something you need to consider. The church wasn’t always an institution with powerful men in charge.

 

[GodsGrace]

The problem is you are assuming that someone decided to officially change the day christians meet together and made it an official edict. That it simply developed out of habit is something you need to consider. The church wasn’t always an institution with powerful men in charge.

Actually, this has been my point all along.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Actually, this has been my point all along.

Good, then the matter is solved. It was never changed from one day to another.

 

[atpollard]

Good, then the matter is solved. It was never changed from one day to another.

Wait until I tell my wife "I can't mow the grass, Saturday is a Day of Rest." ... I bet she won't be able to control herself when she hears it!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

IOW, I believe the Apostles changed the day...
NOT the CC.

They met on Sundays but the Apostles did not declare Sunday to be the new replacement Sabbath day. The Catholic church did that later, even boasting of their authority to do that, for it's obvious that the Bible makes no such declaration.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I DO believe the CC is the first church.

It's impossible to say that the Catholic church in any way shape or form resembles 1 Corinthians 14:26. Virtually no church does. Justin Martyr may be the one responsible for changing the church into a rigid man made ceremonial set of worship procedures.

 

[atpollard]

It's impossible to say that the Catholic church in any way shape or form resembles 1 Corinthians 14:26. Virtually no church does. Justin Martyr may be the one responsible for changing the church into a rigid man made ceremonial set of worship procedures.

It is ironic that for all they are maligned, Charismatics and Pentacostals often come closest to 1 Corinthians 14:26
in practice ... too bad some add so much to Biblical doctrine (like: everyone must speak in tongues to be saved).

 

[GodsGrace]

They met on Sundays but the Apostles did not declare Sunday to be the new replacement Sabbath day. The Catholic church did that later, even boasting of their authority to do that, for it's obvious that the Bible makes no such declaration.

OK
I'm killing a dead horse...
If the Apostles met on Sunday, which, according to the Didache they did,
then the CC just CONFIRMED it be declaring that it be that day so as not to cause confusion and keep every Christian on the same page.

Do you think it was wrong for the CC to make that declaration?


Here, I'll save you the trouble:

 

[GodsGrace]

It's impossible to say that the Catholic church in any way shape or form resembles 1 Corinthians 14:26. Virtually no church does. Justin Martyr may be the one responsible for changing the church into a rigid man made ceremonial set of worship procedures.

Why is it impossible?
This is a different topic...but
what other church was around in those days?

The word catholic (derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the ancient Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos) 'universal')[3][4] comes from the Greek phrase καθόλου (katholou) 'on the whole, according to the whole, in general', and is a combination of the Greek words κατά (katha) 'about' and ὅλος (okos) 'whole'.[5][6] The first known use of "Catholic" was by the church father Saint Ignatius of Antioch in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans (circa 110 AD).[7] In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages.

St. Ignatius of Antioch learned from Peter and also John.
I tend to agree with what he states.

The above is from wikipedia.

 

[GodsGrace]

Good, then the matter is solved. It was never changed from one day to another.

You worship on Saturday?
This was not my intent.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You worship on Saturday?
This was not my intent.

That is besides the point. Only the Jews had and regarded the “sabbath.” The Gentiles did not. So it wasn’t changed. They never did the old mosaic law.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Why is it impossible?
This is a different topic...but
what other church was around in those days?

The word catholic (derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the ancient Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos) 'universal')[3][4] comes from the Greek phrase καθόλου (katholou) 'on the whole, according to the whole, in general', and is a combination of the Greek words κατά (katha) 'about' and ὅλος (okos) 'whole'.[5][6] The first known use of "Catholic" was by the church father Saint Ignatius of Antioch in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans (circa 110 AD).[7] In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages.

St. Ignatius of Antioch learned from Peter and also John.
I tend to agree with what he states.

The above is from wikipedia.

St Ignatius died in 110 AD about 40 years after Peter died so it’s unlikely they ever met. He would have been a child. Since he was in Antioch in Syria and John was in Ephesus and a good 40 years older, it’s also unlikely he was taught by him. Now you’ll likely disagree because only Catholics think Peter was the bishop of Rom and the foundation of the church and the catholics got their commissioning from the real
apostles. Protestants don’t accept that as fact.

 

[Highway54]

Do you know a church that executes people who do their wash on Sunday? Do you understand that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath?

God has not changed but he is not stuck in one culture. He speaks all languages and knows all cultures. Do you know that there are tribes that have a 5 day week? They don't even have a 6th or 7th day. Now what? You should be more flexible in the spirit or intent of the law. The Sabbath is made for man, not the other was around.

The point being maam, we Christians have been released from observing the Sabbath. I am very thankful for this, as I and everyone I know would have been dead yrs ago.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have no idea if the Apostles played any role in the decision, as I said, it was a practical matter for Gentiles to meet on Sunday to avoid upsetting non-Christian Jews by having Gentiles in the Synagogue on Sabbath or having Jewish Christians abandon Synagogue on Sabbath to meet with Gentiles somewhere else.

However, WORSHIPING on SUNDAY does not negate or change the DAY OF REST (SABBATH) from being on SATURDAY in the early church. Paul preached in the Synagogues where he went … that was on SATURDAY (SABBATH). We Christians are free from the LEGAL requirements of the SABBATH LAW, but the early christian’s did not change the day of rest as far as I can tell. It was the FOURTH CENTURY CHURCH, which had started to gain political power and codify rules in DOCTRINES that may or may not have made an official decision to declare SUNDAY the new DAY OF WORSHIP AND REST (thus replacing the Saturday “Sabbath” as “BLESSED” in doctrine). I say ”may” because I am a Baptist that cares little for the details of what the Catholic Church may or may not have done. I care about what Scripture says we should do.

This is from my post no. 85:

***************************************************************

In the 4th century Catholicism had been legalized by Constantine and then made the official religion of the Roman Empire by Theopholis (spelling).

But Christians had been worshipping on Sunday hundreds of years before that.

No longer observing the Sabbath but living in the observance of the Lord's Day.
Ignatius 105AD

The Jews do not serve God and err [edited] when they observe the Sabbath.
Aristidis 125AD

Is there any other matter, my Jewish friends, in which we Christians are blamed, than this:
that we do not live after the Law...and do not observe Sabbaths, as you do.
Justin Martyr 160AD

 

[GodsGrace]

St Ignatius died in 110 AD about 40 years after Peter died so it’s unlikely they ever met. He would have been a child. Since he was in Antioch in Syria and John was in Ephesus and a good 40 years older, it’s also unlikely he was taught by him. Now you’ll likely disagree because only Catholics think Peter was the bishop of Rom and the foundation of the church and the catholics got their commissioning from the real
apostles. Protestants don’t accept that as fact.

I'm not going to do the math or argue about this.
You either believe history or you don't.
I'm not here to change your mind.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It is ironic that for all they are maligned, Charismatics and Pentacostals often come closest to 1 Corinthians 14:26
in practice ... too bad some add so much to Biblical doctrine (like: everyone must speak in tongues to be saved).

Yes, those movements have been horribly corrupted. Particularly by the prosperity message.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If the Apostles met on Sunday, which, according to the Didache they did,
then the CC just CONFIRMED it be declaring that it be that day so as not to cause confusion and keep every Christian on the same page.

Almost.
What the Catholic church did was declare the Sunday meeting to be the new Sabbath observance, not just the official day the church meets on as it had been doing.

They went so far as to outlaw the 7th day Sabbath. Which, apparently, is where our ignorance of the law comes from. For it is not forbidden to keep the 7th day Sabbath. It is forbidden to keep it for the purpose of being justified. This ignorance remains in the church to this day.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why is it impossible?

Because the Catholic church bears no resemblence whatsoever to what the Apostle Paul says to do in a meeting of the saints.

This is a different topic...but
what other church was around in those days?

The church of the Apostles.

And Paul himself said it wasn't going to last long before the wolves came into it (Acts 20:29). And, apparently, that's exactly what happened. The church ceased to be Jewish and was taken over and lorded over by gentile leaders who brought their pagan traditions and beliefs with them into the church.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I'm not going to do the math or argue about this.
You either believe history or you don't.

It isn’t history. It’s only myth because they didn’t learn while being children from the claimed. But refusing to do the math helps maintain the myth, I admit.

I'm not here to change your mind.

Then don’t mention purely Catholic doctrine that Protestants don’t believe.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The point being maam, we Christians have been released from observing the Sabbath. I am very thankful for this, as I and everyone I know would have been dead yrs ago.

The Gentiles didn’t ever observe the Sabbath. They met the first day of the week. But God wants us to rest once a day, whatever day that works. So they weren’t “released” from something that never bound them.