I feel that billions will go to hell because God does love them.
They don't want to be around Him and God grants them their wish.
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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !
- Thread starter brightfame52
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They don't want to be around Him and God grants them their wish.
Rom. 9:13 and Malachi 1:2-3 .... before Esau and Jacob where born or had done anything God chose to love (favor) one and hate (disfavor) the other. So here is a man God hated before the foundation of the world.
Aside: The question is ambiguous. THat's my guess at what you want.
This is an invalid understanding of God. He is immutable and therefore does not change His mind. The question indicates God changed His mind; first he put a name in the book of life and then He erased it. The question also does not define the word "hate" and thus any answer could be misinterpreted.
Hate: If he doth whatsoever he pleaseth, nothing can make him miserable, since misery consists in those things which happen against our will. Thus, hate is not an emotion as God is perfect and misery if not an aspect of a perfect being.
Job 35:7 “If you are righteous, what do you give God, Or what does He receive from your hand? 8 “Your wickedness affects only a man such as you, And your righteousness affects only a son of man [but it cannot affect God, who is sovereign]”
Hate is a disposition of disassociation, disfavor and judgment (darkness). By definition God disfavors all those He sends to hell.
As pertaining to the elect, the absolute, innate holiness of God means that sinners have to be separated from Him unless a way can be found to constitute them holy. And that way has been provided in the merits of Jesus Christ.
Aside: Many Arminians believe God is mutable. Freewill theists believe God has the potential for change in some respects. For instance, God perfectly relates to creatures in on-going dynamic interaction. For God to fail to change in relation to us as the relationship changes would be less than perfect. Thus, though the divine nature is immutable, God can change in thoughts, will and emotions. For Freewill theism God is steadfast and faithful but is able to change in certain respects. A God who experiences our love, or lack of it, in dynamic relationships cannot be completely unchangeable. John Sanders
This statement lacks context. I will assume you want me to exegete the verse for you because you believe it substantuates a belief you have:
God so loved the world”. Many suppose that this means, ‘The entire human race.’ But “the entire human race,” includes all mankind from Adam till the close of the earth’s history! Consider, the history of mankind before Christ was born. Unnumbered millions lived and died before the Savior came to the earth, Ephesians 2:12 “having no hope and without God in the world”, and therefore went to hell. If God “loved” them (or those today that have not heard the salvific gospel), where is the slightest proof? “Who (God) in times past (from the tower of Babel till after Pentecost) suffered all nations to walk in their own ways” (Acts 14:16). God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do things which are improper and repulsive (Romans 1:28). To Israel God said, “You only have I known of all the families of the earth” (Amos 3:2).(Aside: God speaks to KNOWING people, not plan or events). Thus, how can one insist that God in the past loved all mankind! Read the 20th chapter of the Revelation, the great white throne judgment, and see if you can discover there the slightest trace of love (agape LOVE is defined as "a volition to favor". These people spend 99.9999999999% of their lives (pre and post death) in hell .. how could this be an illustration of God's volition to favor (love). (To put it in the vernacular, with friends like that, who needs enemies .)
John 3:16 and says, “World means world”. True, but that “the world” does not mean the whole human family." The world” is used in a general way. When the brethren of Christ said, “Shew Thyself to the world” (John 7:4), did they mean “shew Thyself to all mankind” (ridiculous)? When the Pharisees said, “Behold, the world is gone after Him” (John 12:19), did they mean that “all the human family” were flocking after Him (ridiculous)? When the apostle wrote, “Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world” (Romans 1:8), did he mean that the faith of the saints at Rome was the subject of conversation by every man, woman, and child on the earth (ridiculous)? These, and other passages (John 14:17; John 15:19; John 16:20; John 17:14; etc.) which might be quoted, show that the term “the world” often has a relative rather than an absolute force. (In the vernacular ... when you assume you may an "butt" of "u" and "me". ("Butt" substituted for first syllable).
John 3:16 was Christ’s announcement that God had a purpose of grace toward Gentiles as well as Jews. “God so loved the world”, then, signifies, God’s love is international in its scope (non-Jews also). But does this mean that God loves every individual among the Gentiles? Not necessarily, for as we have seen, the term “world” is general rather than specific, relative rather than absolute. The term “world” in itself is not conclusive. To figure out who are the objects of God’s love other passages where His love is mentioned must be consulted. In 2 Peter 2:5 we read of “the world of the ungodly”. If then, there is a world of the ungodly there must also be a world of the godly. It is the latter who are in view in the passages we shall now briefly consider. “For the bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world” (John 6:33). Now mark it well, Christ did not say, “offereth life unto the world”, but “giveth”. What is the difference between the two terms? This: a thing which is “offered” may be refused, but a thing “given”, necessarily implies its acceptance. If it is not accepted, it is not “given”, it is simply proffered. Here, then, is a scripture that positively states Christ giveth life (spiritual, eternal life) “unto the world.” Now He does not give eternal life to the “world of the ungodly” for they will not have it, they do not want it. Hence, we are obliged to understand the reference in John 6:33 as being to “the world of the godly”, i.e., God’s own people.
Romans 9:25 As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people’, and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved’.” [An example of a group of people who were not loved becoming loved which contradicts the thought that God loves everyone]
World is a nonspecific term for humanity in a general sense. The statement in verse 17, “that the world might be saved through Him,” proves that it does not mean everyone who has ever lived, since all will not be saved. Verse 16 clearly cannot be teaching universal salvation, since the context promises that unbelievers will perish in eternal judgment (vv. 16–18). John MacArthur – New Testament Commentary
Agape love is defined as "a volition to favor".
Agape love is "The essence of agape love is goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight in the object of love." Gotquestions.org
It is contradictory to think billions will go to hell because God favors them.
(in the vernacular .. with friends like that, who needs enemies.)
Again, the question lacks context. Why are you asking the question?
You can go to Gotquestions.com to answer things like this.
Total depravity - is it biblical? | GotQuestions.org
Total depravity - is it biblical? Are all human beings totally depraved? Are we incapable of receiving Christ on our own?
www.gotquestions.org
As a staff member, I assume you know the answer. Speak to a fellow administrator if you need clarification or start a new thread or go to https://www.gotquestions.org/become-a-Christian.html
Agreed
Deuteronomy 18:12 For everyone who does these things is utterly repulsive to the Lord; and because of these detestable practices the Lord your God is driving them out before you.
Are you implying that other types of sin are not 'utterly repulsive to the Lord'?
If so, what sins are not 'utterly repulsive to the Lord'?
If not, what is your point???
Agreed, what is the point you are trying to convey? Are you trying connect Deut. 18:12 as talking about similar types of sins and only these sins are repulsive, but other sins do not repulse a holy God so He is not repulsed by them? And even if the were true, which it is NOT ... therefore are plenty of other verses referring to God's hatred of sinful men that are not in the context of sorcery. Psalm 5:5–6; Psalm 11:5; Ephesians 5:6-7; Proverbs 3:32; yahda, yahda, yahda ...
Aside: I don't see much point in this discussion. You ask questions I think you know the answer to, or questions without context (the reason why you are asking) or you list verses with no explanation as to the point you are trying to convey.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
This thread backs up my point. I have used plenty of scripture. Christ death effects Salvation.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Did you want to discuss the points made in the post?
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
The problem with man made religion that goes out in the name of Christ is this:
They don't believe nor acknowledge that Christ Work alone for those He died for, His Sheep, that it made the salvation of their souls sure and effectual !49
They don't believe nor acknowledge that Christ Work alone for those He died for, His Sheep, that it made the salvation of their souls sure and effectual !49
(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” Romans 9:11-13
Again, as you can plainly see, the context continues to show the election is not about whom God has chosen to save, but the election is according to the purpose of whom God chose to be the lineage of the Messiah.
- Election for purpose, not election for salvation.
Esau was not chosen for the purpose of bringing Christ into the world, Jacob was, even though Jacob was a deceiver, God foresaw that Esau was not fit for His purpose even though the “tradition” of that culture was to allow the older to have the birthright. God showing it’s according to the purpose of His will and not according to our natural understanding or traditions, which Paul was dealing with. Paul understood the Jewish mindset that the Jews believed they were God’s chosen people and were automatically saved (blessed) because the were the natural offspring of Abraham.
Furthermore, the word hate has a broader meaning in Hebrew thought than what the post modern definition of the word has today in our culture. That’s why contextually it must be determined what the writer means by this word.
If the Lord says we must hate our father and mother and family if we are to be His disciples, does that mean we are to “literally” in the common way we understand the hate today, hate our father and mother and family, or does that mean we are to prefer to follow Jesus and His teachings even if our family and culture do not believe?
Here is who Jesus considers as His family —
And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”
Luke 8:20-21
Teaching people that they are chosen by God for salvation and can live whatever way the desire and will still be saved is a dangerous and unbiblical concept that has no place in Christian communities.
You seem to have a habit of lifting scriptures out of their context and bending them to fit your predetermined theology.
This is seen in your style of stating your opinion, then tagging your opinion with a scripture reference, all the while not actual posting the scripture and context for us to read and study.
The entire book of Romans is all about the obedience of faith, which is hearing God’s word and doing it; obeying it.
Those who obey God will be saved.
Those who disobey God will not be saved.
Ths will be seen on the Day of Judgement when we all will stand before our Lord to give account of what we did with the life He gave us, whether good or evil.
Whether you are a Jew or Gentile...
- Those who obey the truth will be receive eternal life.
- Those who obey unrighteousness will receive damnation.
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
- but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath
JLB
This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.
Seth lived one hundred and five years, and begot Enosh. After he begot Enosh, Seth lived eight hundred and seven years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years; and he died.
Enosh lived ninety years, and begot Cainan. After he begot Cainan, Enosh lived eight hundred and fifteen years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Enosh were nine hundred and five years; and he died.
Cainan lived seventy years, and begot Mahalalel. After he begot Mahalalel, Cainan lived eight hundred and forty years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years; and he died.
Mahalalel lived sixty-five years, and begot Jared. After he begot Jared, Mahalalel lived eight hundred and thirty years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred and ninety-five years; and he died.
Jared lived one hundred and sixty-two years, and begot Enoch. After he begot Enoch, Jared lived eight hundred years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years; and he died.
Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah. After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
Methuselah lived one hundred and eighty-seven years, and begot Lamech. After he begot Lamech, Methuselah lived seven hundred and eighty-two years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred and sixty-nine years; and he died.
Lamech lived one hundred and eighty-two years, and had a son. And he called his name Noah, saying, “This one will comfort us concerning our work and the toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD has cursed.” After he begot Noah, Lamech lived five hundred and ninety-five years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Lamech were seven hundred and seventy-seven years; and he died.
And Noah was five hundred years old, and Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Genesis 5:1-32
We don’t have any such record in scripture of the Amazonian's of the year 1000.
Im asking you to back up your claim with scripture not fairy tales.
Can you describe or name the people God did not bring the Gospel to?
JLB
Again, the question lacks context. Why are you asking the question?
You can go to Gotquestions.com to answer things like this.
Total depravity - is it biblical? | GotQuestions.org
Total depravity - is it biblical? Are all human beings totally depraved? Are we incapable of receiving Christ on our own?www.gotquestions.org
My understanding and theology comes from scripture, not the internet.
When our theology comes from man’s opinion, it becomes divisive, and is not according to the unity of the faith.
Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. Romans 16:17
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
Those who don’t remain in the teachings of Christ, to live out and to teach, no longer have God.
JLB
Im asking you to explain how you yourself believe and therefore teach people as how they come to be “in Christ”.
As a staff member, I’m making sure false doctrine is not being spread throughout this community.
Please explain how a person comes to be “in Christ”.
Please use scripture.
JLB
serious ? you keep bringing up dead points NO BODY has denied this !!! your theory is you have to be a special type person in order for God to chose you to be saved. you have limited his Love for man kind. you have limited his ability to save . none of your post have any merit .other than Christ death on the cross
My point is you are lifting this verse out of context, and using it to validate your man made theory that God hates sinners who were not chosen before the foundation of the world.
Deuteronomy has nothing whatsoever to do with such a claim, but teaches us God hates the practices of witchcraft and sorcery, which evil actions that people do, and have nothing to do with God hating sinners who were not chosen before the foundation of the world.
There is no such thing as a sinner who was not chosen before the foundation of the world.
A sinner is a person who practices sin.
How can people who haven’t even been born yet, practice sin?
We are all sinners until we repent and obey the Gospel, in which we receive a new nature, empowered by the Spirit that enables us to practice righteousness.
JLB
Who did Christ die for if not the world?
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
God loves the world of unbelievers and sinners.
The world in this context refers to unbelievers; sinners.
God desires that sinners become saved.
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
How does a person become one of His sheep?
Do you believe people were chosen by God before the foundation of the world to be His sheep, and those were born that way, or do you believe a person must believe the Gospel to become one of His sheep?
JLB
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brightfame52
2024 Supporter
You do deny it if you teach sinners Christ died for are eternally lost. How can anyone Christ died for be eternally lost if His death effected their Salvation?
brightfame52
2024 Supporter