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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

brightfame52 said:
Did you want to discuss the points made in the post?
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I have been trying, but you refuse to answer any questions from anyone. You have your heals dug in so far in your Calvinistic theology there is no room to discuss anything with you that we do not agree with.
 
brightfame52 said:
The problem with man made religion that goes out in the name of Christ is this:

They don't believe nor acknowledge that Christ Work alone for those He died for, His Sheep, that it made the salvation of their souls sure and effectual !49
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What influences you and Fastfredy0 is that of man made religion of the Reformed ideas of Calvinism theology of mans doctrine that began in the 16th century that teaches limited atonement, which is not taught in the Bible. Many of us have proven this theology to be nothing more than heretical teaching by trying to show the both of you in scripture, but you have been so doctrinated by these ideas and theologies that you can not see the truth brought before you. You have every right to believe what you want, but when it comes to adding to or taking away from scripture God gave a warning for this in Rev 22:18, 19.
 
brightfame52 said:
The problem with man made religion that goes out in the name of Christ is this:

They don't believe nor acknowledge that Christ Work alone for those He died for, His Sheep, that it made the salvation of their souls sure and effectual !49
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If they are already His sheep then why did He have to die for them. Makes no sense.
 
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brightfame52 said:
You do deny it if you teach sinners Christ died for are eternally lost. How can anyone Christ died for be eternally lost if His death effected their Salvation?
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Christ death did effect God's plan of salvation before the foundation of the world that whosoever believes in Him by faith will have eternal life.

We are all sinners and whosoever of the sinners that will come unto Christ, repent of their sin, made clean by the blood of Christ will have eternal life.
 
brightfame52 said:
You do deny it if you teach sinners Christ died for are eternally lost. How can anyone Christ died for be eternally lost if His death effected their Salvation?
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do me and your self a favor. go peddle your strawman doctrine elsewhere . i teach preach if your lost you need Jesus and you CAN BE SAVED ----if you dont understand that them your up the creek without a paddle
 
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brightfame52 said:
You do deny it if you teach sinners Christ died for are eternally lost. How can anyone Christ died for be eternally lost if His death effected their Salvation?
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Again, no one is denying Christ death effected salvation for that was God's plan before the foundation of the world as the plan was predestined by Him, but those who will not return back to God and repent of their sin will be eternally lost and cast into the lake of fire in the end. Either we choose to accept Christ or reject Christ, chose you this day in whom you will serve.
 
brightfame52 said:
He said He died for the Sheep specifically Jn 10:11, 15 and He effected their Salvation by His death/Blood
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Yes, He died for His sheep as He is the good Shepard. The sheep are the elect of as they knocked on the door of salvation and Christ opened that door so they could entered in. Were they His sheep before they entered His flock, no, as we all sinners needing to accept God's free gift by faith in Christ as many have knocked at the door and entered into the sheepfold.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Do we as sinners find favor in the Lord, no, as it is through faith and then the Spiritual rebirth and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that we are now the sheep that obey and follow our Master.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Agape love is defined as "a volition to favor".
Agape love is "The essence of agape love is goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight in the object of love." Gotquestions.org

It is contradictory to think billions will go to hell because God favors them.
(in the vernacular .. with friends like that, who needs enemies.)
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The only alternative then, is to not grant them their wish to be separate from God, and force their conversion.
That isn't happening.
 
brightfame52 said:
You do deny it if you teach sinners Christ died for are eternally lost. How can anyone Christ died for be eternally lost if His death effected their Salvation?
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That is the crux of the ongoing dispute.
Jesus died so all can be saved, but there are caveats.
Not everyone wants "to be saved", in spite of what Jesus has made available.

A $5000.00 check on the kitchen table is useless if one doesn't go to the bank.
 
brightfame52 said:
He said He died for the Sheep specifically Jn 10:11, 15 and He effected their Salvation by His death/Blood
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“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
John 10:11-14

Jesus is teaching, by using an idiomatic reference of shepherd and sheep. His point is to teach that He is faithful to those who trust Him, unlike the Pharisee"s whom He likened as "hirelings".

Here is the phrase that shows us the context.


Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, “Are we blind also?” John 9:40

You have taken the text out of its context, and are using parabolic words as literal, while ignoring the plain teaching of scripture.

Christ died for sinners.

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8


JLB
 
for_his_glory said:
Christ death did effect God's plan of salvation before the foundation of the world that whosoever believes in Him by faith will have eternal life.

We are all sinners and whosoever of the sinners that will come unto Christ, repent of their sin, made clean by the blood of Christ will have eternal life.
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I believe Christs death effects Salvation unto all for whom He died. Scripture says specifically He died for the Sheep Jn 10:11,15
 
for_his_glory said:
If they are already His sheep then why did He have to die for them. Makes no sense.
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The Sheep went astray and became lost. Have you not read Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

or havent you read the parable of the Lost Sheep Lk 15:4-7

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
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The Sheep are sinners ! Now does it make since ? Didn't Christ come to save sinners which the Sheep are by nature like any others.
 
Hopeful said:
The only alternative then, is to not grant them their wish to be separate from God, and force their conversion.
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Reformed understanding of salvation is not a FORCING of an individual to convert. It is convincing that God is who He says He is per the Bible. Your concept IMO is a God that loves (favors) you but not enough to convince you that He is who He says He is. My concept of God is one who loves (favors) me so much that He convinces me (I believe willing, not because there is a gun to my head) that He is who He says he is.
(You can google 'reformed compatibilism' to fix up your misconception or accept my cut&paste definition: "reformed compatibilism is the belief that God's predetermination and meticulous providence is "compatible" with voluntary choice." https://www.monergism.com/topics/free-will/compatibilism

My Shepherd efficaciously shows me the way to salvation and I follow willingly, your shepherd says, come and find me and if you do you will be saved. If you are a consistent Arminian you may leave the fold.
 
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