brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Did you read posts 2 and 5 ? I thought I clarified. And what do you agree with in the OP ?
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The Saving results of the Death of Christ !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
What I agreed with is that Christ died to free us from the punishment for our past sins.
What you have failed to mention is that His death, and resurrection, also enabled us to live without sin.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
You starting a rabbit trail, not interested. This thread is about the saving effects/results of Christs death. All for whom He died, His Sheep, by His death alone were sanctified. Since all are not sanctified, Christ could not have died for all without exception.
Why is it you will not allow us to question your points. OP's are not ones priority, but to be discussed among the members. Questions need to be answered, especially with scripture or websites one is using so we know where each other are coming from in their understanding of scripture.
ToS 1.13: Threads started by members are not to be considered as a member's thread or otherwise "owned".
I'm not evading anything, but asking you questions about them. Why are you evading my questions, or can you not answer them.
Then "them" would be the whole world according to John 3:16 that will believe in Him as He died for the whole world, not just a few He choices to be saved.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
The whole world of the believing Sheep. Thats who Christ died for Jn 10. The whole world of the sanctified. Since His death alone sanctified them.
Please show me the scripture that Jesus only died for His own. If they were already His own then there would have been no need for His death on the cross.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
The Blood/Death of Christ not only legally saved all for whom He died, but it also effects experiential salvation or conversion. Heb 9:12-14
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
"How much more shall the blood of Christ purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"
You see this ? Its the powerful Blood of Christ that converts them He died for unto serving the living God. That means they shall live by the Faith of Christ unto serving the True and Living God.
1 Thess 1:9
For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
This is a result of the powerful effectual blood of Christ !15
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
"How much more shall the blood of Christ purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"
You see this ? Its the powerful Blood of Christ that converts them He died for unto serving the living God. That means they shall live by the Faith of Christ unto serving the True and Living God.
1 Thess 1:9
For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
This is a result of the powerful effectual blood of Christ !15
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Im showing you the saving effects of Christs death. How were the believers #1 Sanctified and #2 Perfected ?
No one is starting any rabbit trails as it is you evading any type of discussion with us. This ends now as forums are for opened discussions. This thread is in danger of possibly being closed.
We know what the saving effects of Christ death is as it was God's plan of salvation before the foundation of the world that all who will believe in Him will have eternal life.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Exegesis of John 3:16
God so loved the world”. Many suppose that this means, ‘The entire human race.’ But “the entire human race,” includes all mankind from Adam till the close of the earth’s history! Consider, the history of mankind before Christ was born. Unnumbered millions lived and died before the Savior came to the earth, Ephesians 2:12 “having no hope and without God in the world”, and therefore went to hell. If God “loved” them (or those today that have not heard the salvific gospel), where is the slightest proof? “Who (God) in times past (from the tower of Babel till after Pentecost) suffered all nations to walk in their own ways” (Acts 14:16). God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do things which are improper and repulsive (Romans 1:28). To Israel God said, “You only have I known of all the families of the earth” (Amos 3:2).(Aside: God speaks to KNOWING people, not plan or events). Thus, how can one insist that God in the past loved all mankind! Read the 20th chapter of the Revelation, the great white throne judgment, and see if you can discover there the slightest trace of love (agape LOVE is defined as "a volition to favor". These people spend 99.9999999999% of their lives (pre and post death) in hell .. how could this be an illustration of God's volition to favor (love). (To put it in the vernacular, with friends like that, who needs enemies .)
John 3:16 and says, “World means world”. True, but that “the world” does not mean the whole human family." The world” is used in a general way. When the brethren of Christ said, “Shew Thyself to the world” (John 7:4), did they mean “shew Thyself to all mankind” (ridiculous)? When the Pharisees said, “Behold, the world is gone after Him” (John 12:19), did they mean that “all the human family” were flocking after Him (ridiculous)? When the apostle wrote, “Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world” (Romans 1:8), did he mean that the faith of the saints at Rome was the subject of conversation by every man, woman, and child on the earth (ridiculous)? These, and other passages (John 14:17; John 15:19; John 16:20; John 17:14; etc.) which might be quoted, show that the term “the world” often has a relative rather than an absolute force. (In the vernacular ... when you assume you may an "butt" of "u" and "me". ("Butt" substituted for first syllable).
John 3:16 was Christ’s announcement that God had a purpose of grace toward Gentiles as well as Jews. “God so loved the world”, then, signifies, God’s love is international in its scope (non-Jews also). But does this mean that God loves every individual among the Gentiles? Not necessarily, for as we have seen, the term “world” is general rather than specific, relative rather than absolute. The term “world” in itself is not conclusive. To figure out who are the objects of God’s love other passages where His love is mentioned must be consulted. In 2 Peter 2:5 we read of “the world of the ungodly”. If then, there is a world of the ungodly there must also be a world of the godly. It is the latter who are in view in the passages we shall now briefly consider. “For the bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world” (John 6:33). Now mark it well, Christ did not say, “offereth life unto the world”, but “giveth”. What is the difference between the two terms? This: a thing which is “offered” may be refused, but a thing “given”, necessarily implies its acceptance. If it is not accepted, it is not “given”, it is simply proffered. Here, then, is a scripture that positively states Christ giveth life (spiritual, eternal life) “unto the world.” Now He does not give eternal life to the “world of the ungodly” for they will not have it, they do not want it. Hence, we are obliged to understand the reference in John 6:33 as being to “the world of the godly”, i.e., God’s own people.
Romans 9:25 As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people’, and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved’.” [An example of a group of people who were not loved becoming loved which contradicts the thought that God loves everyone]
World is a nonspecific term for humanity in a general sense. The statement in verse 17, “that the world might be saved through Him,” proves that it does not mean everyone who has ever lived, since all will not be saved. Verse 16 clearly cannot be teaching universal salvation, since the context promises that unbelievers will perish in eternal judgment (vv. 16–18). John MacArthur – New Testament Commentary
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
I'm open for discussion about the points I made with scripture.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
How were they sanctified and perfected according to Heb 10:10,14
Faith has always been, Christ has always been for Christ is our faith from the foundation of the world as God predestined the plan of salvation through Christ Jesus to all who will believe in Him may have eternal life. All who come to God in the OT and through Jesus in the NT until the end of time are all saved by God's grace through faith beginning with Noah who before the flood was the only one who found favor in the Lord. God loves all His creation, but not all in whom He created loves Him or will turn back to Him as they close their ears to Him calling them.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Yes, these are your points you made, but where is there any discussion if we can not ask you questions. This only makes this thread one sided being your side only.
I'm not going to answer this until you start answering our questions. This is not all about you ruling over a thread.
The is unresponsive to my exegesis of John 3:16. (not that you are obligated to respond IMO)
Further Evidence the word WORLD of John 3:16 does not refer to 'everyone without exception'
Before Christ's death:
Exhibit 1
Ephesians 2:11 Therefore, remember that at one time you Gentiles by birth, who are called “Uncircumcision” by those who called themselves “Circumcision,” [itself a mere mark] which is made in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that at that time you were separated from Christ [excluded from any relationship with Him], alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise [with no share in the sacred Messianic promise and without knowledge of God’s agreements], having no hope [in His promise] and [living] in the world without God.
So, with extremely few exceptions (a few converts to Judaism) ... Gentiles were without hope and destined for hell. Thus, Christ did not did for them for the HAD NO HOPE as this would be a contradiction..
Exhibit 2:
It is absurd for Christ to die for all the unsaved that had died before Christ death for at the point of His death it was not possible to saved said group. Thus, the word WORLD in John 3:16 does not mean 'everyone without exception' as this would be a contradiction.
After Christ's death:
Premise 1: Christ died for everyone (assumed by many people's interpretation of John 3:16)
Premise 2: People are saved via the instrument of faith in the death and resurrection Christ (1 Cor. 15:3-4)
Premise 3: Many people have never heard the gospel and thus are condemned (Romans 1 ... without excuse, 1 Cor. 15:3-4 ... way of salvation)
Conclusion: It is a contradiction to say the word WORLD in John 3:16 means everyone without exception for the empirical evidence sited above proves otherwise for God offers those that have not heard the gospel no chance of salvation.
I am not sure why you are throwing out verses without explanation .... but I will address them though you did not.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this [referring to salvation through faith] is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works (not founded upon anything in the believer himself), so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
“And this is not your own doing.” The word “this” must have an antecedent, which would normally be the closest preceding noun. In this case, “this” would refer back to “faith.” Paul is not saying that grace is not our own doing. That would be redundant, because if it were our own doing, it would not be gracious at all. Rather, he says that faith is not our own doing. That does not mean that faith is not found in us; it is found in us. It does not mean that it is someone else’s faith by which we are justified. It is, properly speaking, our faith, for we are the ones who have it, the ones who are exercising it. But it is not our own doing, meaning that we are not the origin of it. It is not something that we have generated by our own power, nor does it originate in our flesh. R.C. Sproul Truths We Confess
Furthermore, if synergism is embraced, then there is the very real but subtle danger that men could boast that they made use of God's grace or had more wisdom than the man who rejected Christ. They could boast that they are different for, unlike others, they responded to Christ. The autonomous natural man would, then, ultimately determine His own salvation, not God. Since a work is a purpose achieved by physical or mental exertion. To believe is a difficult task; the Bible says it is foolishness to the unsaved and no one seeks God. Finally, the context of the verse (2:1-10) forbids the idea that man has any positive role in his own salvation. The verses include expressions like, "by grace you have been saved," "this not from yourselves," "it is the gift of God," "not by works," "so that no one can boast," "we are God's work," "created in Christ Jesus to do good works," "which God prepared in advance for us to do."
You are splitting hairs.
Jesus' gift is available to all, but not all want it.