The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[JLB]

wondering


In the meantime, please show me where God said He gave adam and eve freewill ? What scripture stated that ?

Please don’t ignore my question.


As a staff member, I’m making sure false doctrine is not being spread throughout this community.

Please explain how you believe a person comes to be “in Christ”. Which refers to being saved.


Is it by believing the Gospel, or some other way?


I’m going to insist you answer this question.


Please use scripture.


JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Please don’t ignore my question.


As a staff member, I’m making sure false doctrine is not being spread throughout this community.

Please explain how you believe a person comes to be “in Christ”. Which refers to being saved.


Is it by believing the Gospel, or some other way?


I’m going to insist you answer this question.


Please use scripture.


JLB

A Person comes to be in Christ by election, by being chosen in Christ before the foundation. God put them in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

 

[JLB]

A Person comes to be in Christ by election, by being chosen in Christ before the foundation. God put them in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

Do they need to believe the Gospel to be saved, or are they already saved when they are born into this world?

• Yes they need to believe the Gospel to be saved.
• No, they are already saved.

 

[brightfame52]

Do they need to believe the Gospel to be saved?


Yes or No

See now you have totally went away from the points of the thread. They need to believe the Gospel to be saved as in conversion. When a person is saved from the power of sin by the Sovereign work of the Spirit in New birth, they believe the Gospel in a conversion experience. However if they arent saved by the New Birth first, they cannot believe the Gospel because its hidded from them 2 Cor 4:3-4

Maybe you should start a thread on this subject.

 

[JLB]

When a person is saved from the power of sin by the Sovereign work of the Spirit in New birth, they believe the Gospel in a conversion experience. However if they arent saved by the New Birth first, they cannot believe the Gospel because its hidded from them 2 Cor 4:3-4

When is a person saved by the New Birth?

• When they believe (obey) the Gospel?
• Before they are born?

JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

This is not possible given the context of the discussion. Specifically, the context was the assertion that reformed theology teaches double predestination. Since, Reform teaching was developed 500 years ago or so and since the scriptures were completed 1900 years ago or so ... it is not possible for the Scripture to be used to determine whether or not Reform doctrine teaches double predestination.

Basically what you are saying, if I understand you right, is that the teachings of Calvinism supersede what has already been written in the scriptures.

 

[for_his_glory]

Christs death ensures for all whom He died, deliverance from this present evil world[Salvation] according to the Will of God !

Gal 1:4-5

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

That fact Glorifies God the Father !52

Quote Reply

Where in that verse does it say Christ only died for the elect only?

 

[JLB]

See now you have totally went away from the points of the thread. They need to believe the Gospel to be saved as in conversion. When a person is saved from the power of sin by the Sovereign work of the Spirit in New birth, they believe the Gospel in a conversion experience. However if they arent saved by the New Birth first, they cannot believe the Gospel because its hidded from them 2 Cor 4:3-4

Maybe you should start a thread on this subject.

Last chance to answer my question with a straight answer.


When is a person saved by the New Birth?

• When they believe (obey) the Gospel?
• Before they are born?

JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Where in that verse does it say Christ only died for the elect only?

Where in the verse does it say Christ didnt only die for the elect/sheep ?

So according to that passage what is the stated purpose to be effected in Christ giving Himself for their sins ?

 

[brightfame52]

Last chance to answer my question with a straight answer.


When is a person saved by the New Birth?

• When they believe (obey) the Gospel?
• Before they are born?

JLB

Someone must have deleted my post, Being born again occurs after one has been born physically, sometime during their natural life, but they are born again before they believe the Gospel, else they could not believe the Gospel in a lost unregenerate state because the Gospel is hidden from the unregenerate lost 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Men are born again by the Mercy of Regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done
, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

This work of New birth is a Sovereign Mysterious work of the Spirit donr whenever He pleases according to His Will Jn 3:7-8

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[JLB]

Someone must have deleted my post, Being born again occurs after one has been born physically, sometime during their natural life, but they are born again before they believe the Gospel, else they could not believe the Gospel in a lost unregenerate state because the Gospel is hidden from the unregenerate lost 2 Cor 4:3-4

Please explain how a person can be born again without believing the Gospel?


JLB

 

[JLB]

No, you don't understand. Scripture is the ultimate authority. If Scripture says 1 + 1 = 3 and Calvinism says 1 + 1 = 2 then Scripture is correct. Reformed theology is a systematic organization of scripture according to fallible men; thus it is not infallible.

Scripture does not mention Calvinism or Arminianism or NFL football. In cases like these one goes to the fallible source of these and other concepts to determine what they contain.

Similarly, you and I are fallible; yet we give our opinion of what Scripture means. You and I are the authority upon our beliefs of what the Bible says. The Bible does not say what you and I will believe. You and I are the ones to ask when trying to determine what you and I think, not the Bible. Now, if you or I may think the the Bible says "X", one can say we are mistaken and use the Bible as evidence or our error. But in the end one must go to you or I to determine what you or I believe the Bible says.

Westminster Confession: The Supreme Judge, by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.a

a. Mat 22:29, 31; Eph 2:20 with Acts 28:25.

You will need to answer my question before you proceed any further in this thread.


As a staff member, I’m making sure false doctrine is not being spread throughout this community.

Please explain how you believe a person comes to be “in Christ”. Which refers to being saved.


Is it by believing the Gospel, or some other way?


I’m going to insist you answer this question.


Please use scripture.


JLB

 

[JLB]

This work of New birth is a Sovereign Mysterious work of the Spirit donr whenever He pleases according to His Will Jn 3:7-8

This claim demonstrates that you are promoting a doctrine whereby we are born again, apart from believing the Gospel.


This is false doctrine that promotes “another gospel” .



JLB

 

[Hospes]

You will need to answer my question before you proceed any further in this thread.


As a staff member, I’m making sure false doctrine is not being spread throughout this community.

Please explain how you believe a person comes to be “in Christ”. Which refers to being saved.


Is it by believing the Gospel, or some other way?


I’m going to insist you answer this question.


Please use scripture.


JLB

JLB, quite frankly, you seem posed to use your position of authority to silence what has been considered orthodox Christianity since the Reformation.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Please explain how you believe a person comes to be “in Christ”. Which refers to being saved. Is it by believing the Gospel, or some other way?

Believing the Gospel

Please use scripture.

Acts 16:31

See https://www.gotquestions.org/how-can-I-be-saved.html for expansion. I agree with this explanation.


MY DOCTRINE IS REFORMED and all the statements I have made are, to the best of my knowledge, in agreement with those doctrines.

Are you saying people who are REFORMED are NOT Christians????

 

[Fastfredy0]

JLB, quite frankly, you seem posed to use your position of authority to silence what has been considered orthodox Christianity since the Reformation.

It is not the first time JLB has accused me of not being a Christian. I don't know if the first time was purposeful or because he has difficulty communicating. He seems to be inferring it again.

It is disturbing to say the least. I already told him how one becomes a Christian. He won't let it go.

Thanks Hospes for your observation. JLB's doctrine is unorthodox, but I don't use it as a cudgel to question his salvation.

 

[Hospes]

Please explain how a person can be born again without believing the Gospel?


JLB

I do not think anyone has written someone can be saved without believing the Gospel. Your difficulty is that what people are writing does not line up with your understanding of the sequence of events making up God's act of saving a person. Some of us believe it requires an act on God's part for a person to "see" the truth of the Gospel. This "seeing" must come before the Gospel can be believed. We further believe that those given the ability to see will believe the Gospel. No one will be given the ability to "see" without it leading to believing the Gospel. In this case, seeing truly is believing.

What part of this is "another Gospel"?

 

[JLB]

I do not think anyone has written someone can be saved without believing the Gospel.

Do you agree or disagree that being born again, saved, regenerated are synonymous terms?

 

[JLB]

Believing the Gospel

Thanks

 

[JLB]

It is not the first time @JLB has accused me of not being a Christian.

Well because you misrepresented, with your divisive accusation, you can just take a break from posting in this thread.


JLB