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The Switch To Sunday


He makes the same mistake that many other Christians make, which is to think that the law was for salvation. Nobody has ever been saved by keeping the law, and the Bible does not teach that salvation by works of the law is possible. If people don't understand the purpose of the law, then they are not qualified to explain it to others. His understanding of the law and it's purpose are flawed, and so is his conclusion.

The TOG​
 
He makes the same mistake that many other Christians make, which is to think that the law was for salvation. Nobody has ever been saved by keeping the law, and the Bible does not teach that salvation by works of the law is possible. If people don't understand the purpose of the law, then they are not qualified to explain it to others. His understanding of the law and it's purpose are flawed, and so is his conclusion.

The TOG​
Listen a little more carefully to his words.

Jesus, Himself, was qualified (in part) to be our atonement, and the ONLY one qualified......... Why?
 
There's already another thread on this subject, and here is what the Scriptures say:

1. God created all things in 6 days and rested on the 7th day, therefore He BLESSED that day and SANCTIFIED it (Genesis 2:1-3). It is significant that God blessed this day -- put a special benefit on it and further sanctified it -- set it apart to be a day of REST and WORSHIP.

2. God commanded Israel to keep the 7th day sabbath "holy" (set apart for God), but also to ensure that all human beings would have one day for rest (Heb shabbath = rest) and worship (Exodus 20:8-11). God made this one of the Ten Commandments, therefore it must be taken very seriously.

3. When Christ -- who is God -- was on this earth, He said that He was LORD of the sabbath (Matthew 12:8). This statement anticipated that after His resurrection, the "sabbath" would not be the 7th day, but the 8th day (which has the significance of resurrection and a new creation). The 8th day is also the 1st day of the week.

4. At the same time, Christ -- who was under the Law -- participated in sabbath observance, which included worship and the reading of God's Word (Luke 4:16-30). He also did good works on that day.

5. After Christ's resurrection, the first day of the week (which is known as Sunday) -- the day on which Christ was resurrected -- became "the Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10). This the the day of rest and worship for Christians, therefore the apostle John said "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day", and Christ said that we are to worship "in spirit and in truth" (Jn 4:24).

In view of all this, Christians today must set aside the Lord's Day for worship, rest, and good works, just as Christ did good works on the sabbath days (Matthew 12:9-14). So it is a sin to violate the Lord's Day.
 
Listen a little more carefully to his words.

Jesus, Himself, was qualified (in part) to be our atonement, and the ONLY one qualified......... Why?
I agree the poster needs to watch the video again. The OT law was for instruction in righteous living. Jesus was the living example of the culmination of the law so that we entered into the church age, or age of grace, through he who was the only one who could achieve perfection as that sacrifice we required to achieve salvation from our sin nature.
 
I agree the poster needs to watch the video again. The OT law was for instruction in righteous living. Jesus was the living example of the culmination of the law so that we entered into the church age, or age of grace, through he who was the only one who could achieve perfection as that sacrifice we required to achieve salvation from our sin nature.

Listen to what he says at 1:35. He says that Jesus was saying that "If you want to be saved by keeping that standard..." (i.e. the law). Salvation by keeping the law was not an issue that Jesus addressed, because nobody was trying to do that. They knew that that wasn't what the law was for. And notice what else he does. He quotes just part of what Jesus said, and then he goes of on a tangent explaining what he believes it means. There is not a single verse where Jesus speaks of the law and salvation in the same context.

If you start with something that is incorrect, or as in this case, nonexistent, you are very unlikely to reach a correct conclusion.

The TOG​
 
I know that man, Saturday starts on Friday at sundown, not at 12:01 midnight.
shabat. according the religious calendar. they don't have the words for days to be stated in Hebrew just the date. ie 25 Tishlev
 
Listen to what he says at 1:35. He says that Jesus was saying that "If you want to be saved by keeping that standard..." (i.e. the law). Salvation by keeping the law was not an issue that Jesus addressed, because nobody was trying to do that. They knew that that wasn't what the law was for. And notice what else he does. He quotes just part of what Jesus said, and then he goes of on a tangent explaining what he believes it means. There is not a single verse where Jesus speaks of the law and salvation in the same context.

If you start with something that is incorrect, or as in this case, nonexistent, you are very unlikely to reach a correct conclusion.

The TOG​
I'm afraid you are still missing how the Bible reads. It is to be understood in its ENTIRE message, not sliced up into individual sentences that you hope will say what you want it to.

What was the very point, and specific question the Rich Young Ruler came asking? He wanted to know how to inherit eternal life. What did Jesus tell him was necessary? He said to "Keep the law."

When he claimed he had... for all his life... Jesus knew he had not, so He kept going. He stepped over into the HEART realm, and showed the man that he was already in violation of the very first commandment by loving his possessions more than he loved God.
 
I'm afraid you are still missing how the Bible reads. It is to be understood in its ENTIRE message, not sliced up into individual sentences that you hope will say what you want it to.

That's precisely what Hank Hangraaff does in that video. He takes just part of a sentence, and then tries to make it say what he wants. Please don't project that over on me.

The TOG​
 
Listen to what he says at 1:35. He says that Jesus was saying that "If you want to be saved by keeping that standard..." (i.e. the law). Salvation by keeping the law was not an issue that Jesus addressed, because nobody was trying to do that. They knew that that wasn't what the law was for. And notice what else he does. He quotes just part of what Jesus said, and then he goes of on a tangent explaining what he believes it means. There is not a single verse where Jesus speaks of the law and salvation in the same context.

If you start with something that is incorrect, or as in this case, nonexistent, you are very unlikely to reach a correct conclusion.

The TOG​
Unlike others here I have no wish to argue with you. Your proclamation at the end is a self-fulfilling prophecy when it would be you who lacks understanding in this issue. And you appear to be set in that deficit because you continue to argue your errant point of view. Arguing Hank Hanegraaff doesn't know what he's talking about when it is obvious you are in error is, well, silly.
 
Unlike others here I have no wish to argue with you. Your proclamation at the end is a self-fulfilling prophecy when it would be you who lacks understanding in this issue. And you appear to be set in that deficit because you continue to argue your errant point of view. Arguing Hank Hanegraaff doesn't know what he's talking about when it is obvious you are in error is, well, silly.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that Hank Hanegraaff is infallible and that disagreeing with him meant I lack understanding and am obviously in error.

The TOG​
 
The 4th commandment I don't see where the Lord said change it, or are these commandments, the 10 Suggestions. Jesus himself went into the temple on Friday's at sundown. Now over the years I have heard every excuse for Sunday being the temple day. And when I point out that the Catholics changed it they still give excuses. Now we know from Jesus you can do certain things on the Sabbath day, but He did not change the day to Sunday.

Matthew 5:18
King James 2000 Bible
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

4th Commandment
4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
 
No one said he is infallible.

You said that I was obviously in error and that it was silly of me to disagree with him. Sounds like pretty much the same thing to me. But maybe I'm wrong, so tell me; if he is not infallible, then why is it silly to disagree with him and why am I "obviously in error" for doing so?

The TOG​
 
You said that I was obviously in error and that it was silly of me to disagree with him. Sounds like pretty much the same thing to me. But maybe I'm wrong, so tell me; if he is not infallible, then why is it silly to disagree with him and why am I "obviously in error" for doing so?

The TOG​
You don't appear to understand that just because someone knows more than you do that that does not mean they are infallible. If that were the case then the parallel argument could be that because you are wrong in this regard you are never correct in anything else you say.
It is silly to argue Hank doesn't know what he's talking about when more than one person has attempted without success to brig to your attention that it is you who are ignorant about these issues.
I won't repeat the list. If you go back you'll see where you are wrong in challenging Hank H. on these issues. That you refuse to agree you are wrong does not make you correct and HH in error.
 
You don't appear to understand that just because someone knows more than you do that that does not mean they are infallible. If that were the case then the parallel argument could be that because you are wrong in this regard you are never correct in anything else you say.

How do you know he knows more than I do? I have been studying the Bible for over 40 years, and the law specifically for the past 8 years. Are you sure Hank Hanegraaff has studied the law that extensively? Having a piece of paper from a seminary or having a public ministry doesn't mean you automatically know more than everyone else.

It is silly to argue Hank doesn't know what he's talking about when more than one person has attempted without success to brig to your attention that it is you who are ignorant about these issues.
I won't repeat the list.

Okay, then I will. Here are all of the replies I've received in this thread concerning the video.

Listen a little more carefully to his words.

Jesus, Himself, was qualified (in part) to be our atonement, and the ONLY one qualified......... Why?

I agree the poster needs to watch the video again. The OT law was for instruction in righteous living. Jesus was the living example of the culmination of the law so that we entered into the church age, or age of grace, through he who was the only one who could achieve perfection as that sacrifice we required to achieve salvation from our sin nature.

I'm afraid you are still missing how the Bible reads. It is to be understood in its ENTIRE message, not sliced up into individual sentences that you hope will say what you want it to.

What was the very point, and specific question the Rich Young Ruler came asking? He wanted to know how to inherit eternal life. What did Jesus tell him was necessary? He said to "Keep the law."

When he claimed he had... for all his life... Jesus knew he had not, so He kept going. He stepped over into the HEART realm, and showed the man that he was already in violation of the very first commandment by loving his possessions more than he loved God.

Unlike others here I have no wish to argue with you. Your proclamation at the end is a self-fulfilling prophecy when it would be you who lacks understanding in this issue. And you appear to be set in that deficit because you continue to argue your errant point of view. Arguing Hank Hanegraaff doesn't know what he's talking about when it is obvious you are in error is, well, silly.

To summarize:
  • Listen again
  • Listen again
  • You're still missing it
  • You're being silly
Please show me where all these people you refer to (I only see two) have tried to bring to my attention that I am ignorant. Telling me to listen again (50% of the responses I've gotten) or that I'm being silly (25% of the responses), isn't showing me anything. The only one that's left is Willie's second response, where, after he states that I'm still missing it, without actually providing any support for that statement, he goes on to talk about the story of the rich young ruler. In that encounter, Jesus told the man to keep the law. He then does the exact same thing as Hank Hanegraaff does in the video and goes on to interpret the partial passage that he referred to to mean something that isn't there. What actually is there is this:

And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. (Matt. 19:16-22 ESV)
Notice that when the young man says that he has kept the commandments, Jesus doesn't argue with him. He doesn't tell him that he's wrong and that he has broken the commandments. The man was doing what was right. Jesus never said he wasn't or that it wasn't right to live by the law. But he knew there was something more to life (What do I still lack?), and Jesus told him what to do if he wanted more out of life, which was to leave everything he had and follow Jesus. Nothing in that passage says the man wasn't following the commandments Jesus mentioned. Nothing in that passage says the law has been done away with. Nothing says that we needn't or can't follow the law. And, more to the point for this thread, that passage mentions neither the Sabbath nor Sunday. So, where exactly have multiple people shown me that I am ignorant?

If you go back you'll see where you are wrong in challenging Hank H. on these issues. That you refuse to agree you are wrong does not make you correct and HH in error.

Neither does the fact that Hank Hanegraaff is a celebrity that has a public ministry and I'm not mean that he is right and I am in error. It not Hank Hanegraaf that determines what is right and wrong. We should go to the Bible, and not any man, to find the truth. If Hank Hanegraaff or anyone else contradicts what the Bible says, then I will argue against them, not matter how silly that may seem to others.

The TOG​
 
Lewis, one is free to do shabat or not.
there is no clear worded command that a levite can atone via animal either. yet the cross is superior to the animal system. one can use that argument for the shabat. the rest in jesus is greater the shabat.
 
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