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The Switch To Sunday

jasonc said:
Lewis, one is free to do shabat or not.
there is no clear worded command that a levite can atone via animal either. yet the cross is superior to the animal system. one can use that argument for the shabat. the rest in jesus is greater the shabat.
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Jason that is not what I am talking about.
 
Lewis said:
Jason that is not what I am talking about.
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shabat is a day of worship on a set day that is what is commanded to do. not to work, to rest in the provisions of the lord. there was worship done on that day and still is
 
jasonc said:
shabat is a day of worship on a set day that is what is commanded to do. not to work, to rest in the provisions of the lord. there was worship done on that day and still is
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What I am talking about is that man, had the never to change the day, who gave man the authority to do this ? God sure didn't.
 
Lewis said:
What I am talking about is that man, had the never to change the day, who gave man the authority to do this ? God sure didn't.
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Paul, said one can worship anyday or not or to do a feast. see what romans 14 says about moons and days. that is what the jews set days. a new moon refers to a few feasts and also the shabat.

see acts 15 where the command to do the shabat wasn't mentioned to the gentiles.
if it was that important then how could the Jerusalem council negate that?
 
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God
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Remember The Sabbath Day
 
Lewis said:
Remember The Sabbath Day
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the word shabat is the same. so you believe that we sin when we don't meet on the shabat? that is what you imply. if you are going to take that in exodus as it was in context(a day of rest and worship).
 
jasonc said:
Paul, said one can worship anyday or not or to do a feast. see what romans 14 says about moons and days. that is what the jews set days. a new moon refers to a few feasts and also the shabat.

see acts 15 where the command to do the shabat wasn't mentioned to the gentiles.
if it was that important then how could the Jerusalem council negate that?
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The commands not to murder, steal, bear false witness and to honor our parents weren't mentioned either. Does that mean those aren't important? What is mentioned is that the Torah is read every Sabbath. Converts were expected to go to the synagogue every Sabbath, where they would eventually learn the rest of the Torah. The 4 commands mentioned (3 of which were dietary regulations, btw), were the ones that the pagans were practicing and which they had to cease immediately. They could learn the rest, including the Sabbath, over time.

The TOG​
 
TOG said:
The commands not to murder, steal, bear false witness and to honor our parents weren't mentioned either. Does that mean those aren't important? What is mentioned is that the Torah is read every Sabbath. Converts were expected to go to the synagogue every Sabbath, where they would eventually learn the rest of the Torah. The 4 commands mentioned (3 of which were dietary regulations, btw), were the ones that the pagans were practicing and which they had to cease immediately. They could learn the rest, including the Sabbath, over time.

The TOG​
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we have had this argument before. if what you say is true then I should be able today. go to any Chassidic temple and learn from them. uhm given that the temple was around then. would you attend any synagogue that announced that if you know any of the way, let the rabbi know, or the Christians. given what paul did? would you go there?

I wouldn't. I have read from Chassidic sites. its not the same.i have been asked not to post what they say on the torah. the Mishnah was used then so was part of the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud orally. john used the oneikos and jonathan targum.

paul negated the cirmcumision? show me how he could do that and since when does shabat not become a non -salvinical manner? jesus didn't say that either and yet most messianic jew just say well you can choose not to celebrate that too.death then was the punishment for that and well we don't have a temple but then they did. so when a Christian didn't do shabat? did paul and apostles put them to death? if so show me that case
 
see later statement. its a sin worthy of death in paul's day? and still a sin. are you an sda? feel free to or not to worship on that day. work will have be defined by someone. each person will have to decide what is work.

jews would often hire gentiles to work on the shabat for them.
 
jasonc said:
we have had this argument before. if what you say is true then I should be able today. go to any Chassidic temple and learn from them. uhm given that the temple was around then. would you attend any synagogue that announced that if you know any of the way, let the rabbi know, or the Christians. given what paul did? would you go there?

I wouldn't. I have read from Chassidic sites. its not the same.i have been asked not to post what they say on the torah. the Mishnah was used then so was part of the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud orally. john used the oneikos and jonathan targum.

paul negated the cirmcumision? show me how he could do that and since when does shabat not become a non -salvinical manner? jesus didn't say that either and yet most messianic jew just say well you can choose not to celebrate that too.death then was the punishment for that and well we don't have a temple but then they did. so when a Christian didn't do shabat? did paul and apostles put them to death? if so show me that case
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You mention Chassidic synagogues. That is not the only type there is. Just as there are different denominations in Christianity, and not all churches are the same or teach the same doctrines, so also in Judaism not all synagogues are the same. Some are orthodox, some are conservative, some are reform, some are Karaite or something else, and they don't all believe the same or teach the same doctrines. The synagogues that I referred to before were what we would call Messianic, where the people believed and taught that Jesus was the Messiah. I would not hesitate to go to a Messianic synagogue today if I had the opportunity to do so.

The TOG​
 
jasonc said:
the word shabat is the same. so you believe that we sin when we don't meet on the shabat? that is what you imply. if you are going to take that in exodus as it was in context(a day of rest and worship).
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It also means we would have to follow all of those laws, no cooking, no working, no gathering as in shopping, the list goes on.

People who say they keep the Sabbath holy really have no concept of what that means.
 
TOG said:
You mention Chassidic synagogues. That is not the only type there is. Just as there are different denominations in Christianity, and not all churches are the same or teach the same doctrines, so also in Judaism not all synagogues are the same. Some are orthodox, some are conservative, some are reform, some are Karaite or something else, and they don't all believe the same or teach the same doctrines. The synagogues that I referred to before were what we would call Messianic, where the people believed and taught that Jesus was the Messiah. I would not hesitate to go to a Messianic synagogue today if I had the opportunity to do so.

The TOG​
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those are few and far tween the chassidics are the largest. they are the orthodox jews. karaite? locally I have reformed. Chassidic and one consertive and the consertive can be as luny as the reformed.
 
Jesse said:
It also means we would have to follow all of those laws, no cooking, no working, no gathering as in shopping, the list goes on.

People who say they keep the Sabbath holy really have no concept of what that means.
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No, it doesn't mean that. However, Jesus did not rescind the requirement to keep the sabbath in the new testament. In practical terms people of today can keep the sabbath holy rather easily. Jesus worked on the sabbath so as to raise the ire of the temple authorities and also demonstrate that very thing.
 
Hebrews Chapter 4 talks about the Sabbath rest for Christians, the key verse being verse seven.
Do your homework.
 
tinykitten said:
No, it doesn't mean that. However, Jesus did not rescind the requirement to keep the sabbath in the new testament. In practical terms people of today can keep the sabbath holy rather easily. Jesus worked on the sabbath so as to raise the ire of the temple authorities and also demonstrate that very thing.
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Jesus healed on the Sabbath, that is not the same thing.

Jesus is our Sabbath and we rest in Him. There are no holy days under the New Covenant. However, we are not to criticize those who do feasts, keep holy day, etc. If they want to celebrate it in the Lord's name - why not?

We should be resting "in Him" everyday.
 
tinykitten said:
No, it doesn't mean that. However, Jesus did not rescind the requirement to keep the sabbath in the new testament. In practical terms people of today can keep the sabbath holy rather easily. Jesus worked on the sabbath so as to raise the ire of the temple authorities and also demonstrate that very thing.
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he healed on the shabat which never the problem with the intent of the torah. the fact is with the torah there must be discernment on what law is greater. ie don't eat the showbread vs hungry men who had no food. ie on the shabat a child is to be circumcised and must be on the shabat
 
jasonc said:
he healed on the shabat which never the problem with the intent of the torah. the fact is with the torah there must be discernment on what law is greater. ie don't eat the showbread vs hungry men who had no food. ie on the shabat a child is to be circumcised and must be on the shabat
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It is also true that mercy triumphs everything. It was mercy Jesus showed when he healed on the Sabbath.
 
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