The Teachings of Paul

[Sparkey]

I once had an experience with a boy who had what was called, "Oppositional Disorder". We were standing in line at Disneyland. He was being difficult and I made the mistake of taking us out of the line and saying, "We won't go further until we agree."

It was a standoff. My stubbornness against his.

After 45 minutes of standing still and making no progress in an already long line I began to consider his mother who had entrusted her son into my care. What happened? I prayed. Then I just slipped my hand into Jason's hand and we reentered the line. He kinda looked at me with surprise and behaved like nothing happened.

 

[elijah23]

Re: The Teachings of the Holy Spirit

That's not what the Holy Spirit said through Peter though. Read again:

What are you quoting here?

 

[Sparkey]

Re: The Teachings of the Holy Spirit

What are you quoting here?

The quote came from my heart, elijah23. It was something I read in the bible and has been written into me. I am commanded to let my light shine and not cover it.

 

[elijah23]

Re: The Teachings of the Holy Spirit

That's not what the Holy Spirit said through Peter though.

Okay, I found it.

As I believe the teachings of Paul need to be taken with a grain of salt, the same would be said of all the writers of the New Testament epistles.

 

[elijah23]

You are arguing with God here, elijah!

Paul is not my God.

 

[elijah23]

It is because of my deep relationship with Jesus Christ and the power of Holy Spirit in me that I must stand toe to toe with you here.

If you think that is the purpose of God's word, then why do you hypocritically spurn it?

I try to love the Lord with my heart, mind, and soul, and love my neighbor as myself.

 

[elijah23]

There will always be an impediment in your relationship with Jesus Christ when you reject any part of His word.

No, if I love the Lord with all my heart, mind, and soul, and love my neighbor as myself, I think I will be okay.

 

[jasoncran]

No, if I love the Lord with all my heart, mind, and soul, and love my neighbor as myself, I think I will be okay.

do you agree that the Lord is the LOGOS? if so then isnt the bible in equal for as the Word?

the entire bible points to the Lord and tell us of him. yes he is above the bible, but the bible is just as reliable as the lord!!

theonuptos do you know what that is?

God breathed, God breathed the Word to men!

 

[Sparkey]

Re: The Teachings of Peter

I think you will be okay too. Don't teach others to follow false beliefs though. Jesus taught that the Apostles of the Lamb will sit and rule with Him. You're correct to say that Paul is not God. You're incorrect when you say that God does not speak through men. Think about when it was declared, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear ye him."

Simon Peter witnessed this and heard the voice of God as well as saw Jesus transformed (with his own eyes). Later Jesus said unto them after He arose (again transformed),These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.

Jesus promised, "Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.[Luke 22:28-30 KJV]

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. [Matthew 19:27-28 KJV]

[2 Peter 1:16-21 KJV] - For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.

He (Peter) states that no scripture of of any private interpretation. We are talking about the promise. We don't know what we shall be but we shall be like Him. We are promised to be changed, transformed. It is by the engrafted word that we are changed from glory to glory.

 

[Alabaster]

God’s Word is law.

You don't believe that.

I think his Word is contained in the teachings of Jesus, as found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

And it is contained in 62 other books in the bible also---every one of them penned by fallible men. How do you go on?

 

[Sparkey]

When my sister and I both sat at the dinner table we were instructed, "Don't talk to strangers," AND "Don't take candy from strangers."

The following day my sister saw a friend taking candy from a stranger and became alarmed. She told her friend, "Don't take candy from strangers."

So now comes elijah23 and he heard both commandment given at the table, because he was a guest in our house. He went to my dad and said, "Your daughter didn't teach what you wanted."

He also asked, "Why did you name her Paul?"

When I spoke to my dad about it later he said, "Invite your friend to supper more often. He is a son to me."

Paul was wrong. The entire law is not summed up in one commandment, that you should love your neighbor as yourself. It is summed up in two commandments, that you should love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus said so.

My dad gave more than two commandments to His children. There are 613 commandments in the LAW; 248 Positive Commandments (do's) and 365 Negative Commandments. My sister was not wrong when she selected a summary statement that my dad taught, "Don't take candy from strangers."

The Apostle Paul is no stranger.

 

[doubting thomas]

hmm, could this not have been solved rather quickly with this passage?

Galatians 1

[A letter from] Paul, an apostle -- sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead -- and all the brothers and sisters with me: ... Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. ... As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse! ... I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ ... I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie.


case closed. (and since paul is writing to both the brothers and sisters, we can also put to bed this inference of his sexism)

 

[doubting thomas]

Some Christians believe the teachings of Paul are infallible. Did anyone believe this during his lifetime?

the answer actually seems to be yes. consdier, for starters, the incident at antioch. we know that paul had arguments with james and peter. the most cited example is galatians 2:11, where paul says he opposed peter to his face. there are two issues which comes down to 1) the laws of moses and 2) salvation through faith and deed. compare:

1. james 2:24 vs romans 4:1-3
2. james 2:21-24 vs Romans 10:4

and then there is the issue of paul's teaching seen to conflict with jesus'. to wit:

1. would jesus, who ministered to sinners, agree with paul's first letter to the corinthians (5:11)?
2. would jesus (matthew 25:31-46) agree with paul's second letter to the thessalonians (3:10)?
3. would jesus (matthew 7:21-27) agree with pauls's letter to the romans (3:28)?
4. would jesus, who preaches that we must be like little children, agree with, as you already cited, 1Cor 13:11?
5. would jesus (mathew 5:18-19) agree with romans 10:4 or 3:27-28

look up the passages and decide for yourself.

some people also (though not me) take issue with jesus specifically saying "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" (luke 6:27, matthew 5:37), while paul only says in romans 12 "bless those who persecute you and do not curse them ... if your enemies are hungry, feed them, if they are thirsty, give them something to drink ... do not repay anyone evil for evil". some say this is not exactly saying "love your enemies", but i think it is, just as i think the whole issue of neighborly love being the most important law (paul) or second most important law (jesus) is not actually much of an issue at all. i think it's still saying the same thing, given the context of paul's letter. in fact, i think it incredible just how close both messages are.

i think you heart is in the right place, elijah23, and i think that's what matters most. i think your church sounds very loving and very christian.




1 JOHN 3:18: let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed

GALATIANS 5:22-3: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law

ROMANS 13:10 love is the fulfillment of the law.

1 JOHN 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

 

[elijah23]

do you agree that the Lord is the LOGOS?

I don’t use "fancy" words like "LOGOS." I just try to obey everything Jesus said in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

 

[elijah23]

if so then isnt the bible in equal for as the Word?

I believe the Word is the teachings of Jesus, found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

 

[elijah23]

the entire bible points to the Lord and tell us of him. yes he is above the bible, but the bible is just as reliable as the lord!!

The writers of the New Testament epistles were human beings expressing opinions, I believe. They were very wise people, but not perfect.

 

[elijah23]

theonuptos do you know what that is?

No, I have never heard of that word. That word is not found in my Bible.

 

[elijah23]

Re: The Teachings of Peter

Don't teach others to follow false beliefs though.

I am not a teacher.

It is good for me to witness to what I believe is true, just like it is good for you to witness to what you believe is true.

 

[jasoncran]

No, I have never heard of that word. That word is not found in my Bible.

in the greek nt

this verse in timothy is where its used and its translanted as inspired

all scripture is inspired..

now then if paul said that and you believe that the bible is innerent then whats the problem with the other parts of the nt?

 

[jasoncran]

The writers of the New Testament epistles were human beings expressing opinions, I believe. They were very wise people, but not perfect.

really?

the same could be said of the Gospels as the lord didnt write them. why do you believe that the writers of the Gospels wrote what jesus said if luke wrote acts(which btw was written to one man and then we all get it later)and luke and acts are written to the same man.

(some say this of)mark was too young to recall what the lord did and by tradition some say he wrote what peter said too.

john also wrote other books, surely he would also be equally as inspired there as that vision of revalation has red letters to it.