The Teachings of Paul

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Re: The Teachings of the Apostles

handy said:
I would like to discuss this issue, because Scriptural infallibility is an area of discussion that I feel strongly about...but

...in 112 posts, you, in spite of the fact that you wish to uncover truth, are still sticking with the idea that pretty much the entire Bible is prone to error,
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I have two issues with the Bible, both in letters in the New Testament.

First, I think it is wrong to prohibit women from speaking in church.

Second, Paul said the entire law is based on one commandment, that we should love our neighbors as ourselves, while Jesus said the entire law is based on two commandments, that we should love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and that we should love our neighbors as ourselves.
 
elijah23 said:
I think two of Paul’s misstatements made it into the Bible. I think it was wrong for him to say women shouldn’t speak in church, and I think it was wrong for him to say that all the law was based on commandment, that we should love our neighbors as ourselves, when Jesus said the law was based on two commandments, that we should love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves, my dear.
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If you think Paul was wrong then you are judging God, who made sure everything for life was there for you.
 
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Alabaster said:
I know so. I have studied this issue and asked God for wisdom on it.
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[33] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
[34] the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
[35] If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
[36] What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? 1 Cor 14:33-36 RSV
 
elijah23 said:
I agree that the Lord provides all the things we need, and much, much more.
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The major thing God has provided for you besides salvation is His message to you found in 66 books of the canon of scripture.

Without them, especially the New Testament, you have no power to live for God, for you are not equipped with the knowledge regarding the baptism of the Holy Spirit every believer needs. The teaching of the Holy Spirit comes after Jesus was ascended, which is another work of Jesus Christ for us--and you are denying it if you are denying all but the Gospel accounts.
 
elijah23 said:
[33] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
[34] the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
[35] If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
[36] What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? 1 Cor 14:33-36 RSV
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'The women' tells it all, referring to the women who were behaving badly.

Understand that this is a letter written to one congregation who had trouble with women speaking out of turn causing disruption. This is not an edict for all women for all time.
 
Alabaster said:
'The women' tells it all, referring to the women who were behaving badly.

Understand that this is a letter written to one congregation who had trouble with women speaking out of turn causing disruption. This is not an edict for all women for all time.
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Paul says women shouldn’t speak in church. Right?
 
Alabaster said:
He didn't in scripture.
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I think he misspoke when he said women shouldn’t speak in church.

I think he misspoke when he said the entire law was based on one commandment—that we should love our neighbors as ourselves. Jesus said the entire law is based on two commandments—that we love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and that we love our neighbors as ourselves.
 
elijah23 said:
Paul says women shouldn’t speak in church. Right?
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No he doesn't say that all women for all time must not speak in church! Why would he mean that when he tells the churches that women are to prophesy in church? That is speaking and preaching.
 
elijah23 said:
I think he misspoke when he said women shouldn’t speak in church.

I think he misspoke when he said the entire law was based on one commandment—that we should love our neighbors as ourselves. Jesus said the entire law is based on two commandments—that we love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and that we love our neighbors as ourselves.
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No, Paul did not misspeak.

You, on the other hand, have misinterpreted Paul and blame Paul for your own failure to grasp what he has said.
 
elijah23 said:
I think the whole Word is the teachings of Jesus as found in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. In other words, the Word is the words Jesus spoke when he came to earth and preached.
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What language did Jesus speak? Greek or Aramaic? Respectfully, your feet are on a slippery slope here.

The simple fact is that all scripture is God Breathed. Peter acknowledged that Paul's epistles were part of Scripture. Paul knew it too. Our opinion does not determine if God inspired the writings or not. The key to understanding is to look at what the Holy Spirit said through Paul. Don't try to figure out what Paul may or may not have meant. It is the Holy Spirit, the "breath of God" who not only spoke through men but also opens our ears to hear HIS message.

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, [in whom] my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. ...

Who [is] blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger [that] I sent? who [is] blind as [he that is] perfect, and blind as the LORD'S servant? Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not. The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make [it] honourable. But this [is] a people robbed and spoiled; [they are] all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore. Who among you will give ear to this? [who] will hearken and hear for the time to come? [Isaiah 42:1-4, 19-23 KJV]
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~Sparrow
 
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Alabaster said:
No he doesn't say that all women for all time must not speak in church! Why would he mean that when he tells the churches that women are to prophesy in church? That is speaking and preaching.
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Paul says this:

[33] As in all the churches of the saints,
[34] the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
[35] If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 1 Cor 14:33-35 RSV
 
Sparrowhawke said:
The simple fact is that all scripture is God Breathed.
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If this is true, why did Paul say the entire law was based on one commandment, that we should love our neighbors as ourselves, while Jesus said the entire law was based on two commandments, that we should love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves?
 
elijah23 said:
No, I think I am being truthful.
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Take a couple steps back, geet on your face before God and wait on Him to reveal the truth. You are not believing the truth thus far, elijah. You have been deceived.
 
elijah23 said:
If this is true, why did Paul say the entire law was based on one commandment, that we should love our neighbors as ourselves, while Jesus said the entire law was based on two commandments, that we should love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves?
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Paul had license given by His Lord Jesus Christ to say that. He was summing up the law of Christ.

Please stop attributing fallibility to the inspired writings of one anointed by God and personally chosen by Jesus Himself to establish His Church in the world through much trial and persecution.
 
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