The theology of "soul sleep" any truth?

[JLB]

You base this on the number of trips are ....... What? Waste of gas? To hard to do? Heaven runs out of resources to pay for the trips? Have you ever made two trips to any place and found out you could have gotten it all done in just one? You can't base a belief because you think it would be far to many trips.

How far is it to heaven.

How long does it take to get there?

How is time and space defined in the Spirit realm?

How long is a twinkling of an eye?

How far did Enoch travel to get to the place called was no more?

When God takes us, will we have any toll boths to pay along the way?

When Jesus returns, do we stay here with Him, or do go on to heaven, even though He stays here to separate the sheep from the Goats...


These questions and many more will be answered on the next : THIS WAS YOU LIFE.

Starring; Brother Mike

Directed by; Brother Mike

Produced by; Brother Mike




JLB

 

[TOG]

The fact that you discredit what Jesus says and teaches is frightening.

I didn't discredit anything Jesus said. The fact that you base your theology and beliefs about eternity on a single parable and a one-time event that took a matter of minutes is what's disturbing.

The TOG
​

 

[Brother Mike]

These questions and many more will be answered on the next : THIS WAS YOU LIFE.

Starring; Brother Mike

Directed by; Brother Mike

Produced by; Brother Mike

Thank you!!! Thank you!!! Our sources have spoken with the financial department of Heaven JLB, and we are told that transporting 3+ billion believers back and forth will be a costly endeavor. Insiders have told us that God is planning to rip out all the streets made of Gold and is just waiting for Gold to hit 2,000 dollars (US) per ounce. Once God's price is hit, He will sell all the Gold in heaven and be able to pay for so many trips of billions to fulfill his Word.

Right Now JLB we have to wait for Gold to rise 700.00 more (US) dollars per ounce, and then the end of the World will Come.

For the concerned, God is also planing to replace all the streets in Heaven with EZ-Street asphalt. It's not as pretty as gold, but angelic sources tell us that it holds up well in cold weather and is cost effective.

http://www.ezstreetasphalt.com/

One a side note, the great Marriage Supper will have to have some cost reduced, but have no fear. Each believe will be able to order up to 3.00 on McDonald's 1$ menu. How McDonald's will be able to serve this much food has yet to be disclosed.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

The fact that you discredit what Jesus says and teaches is frightening.

I didn't discredit anything Jesus said. The fact that you base your theology and beliefs about eternity on a single parable and a one-time event that took a matter of minutes is what's disturbing.

The TOG
​

I have based my understanding of life after death from the two scriptures in Matthew and Luke, as well as 1 Samuel 28:15 which is validated by Luke 16.

All the things I listed that we learn from Luke 16 and Matthew 17 seemed to have slipped by you.

Did you want to comment on those 20 some odd things that we are taught from those scriptures.


JLB

 

[TOG]

You can't base a belief because you think it would be far to many trips.

I don't base my beliefs on the number of trips, I base them on the Bible. However, the number of trips and multiple resurrections don't make sense to me. When I read the Bible, I only see God welcoming us once into His kingdom and only one resurrection from the dead.

Besides it would be....

Pre-Trib.
(snip)
Post-Trib.

You're forgetting something I've said earlier. The term "Pre-trib" is short for "Pre-tribulation rapture", and "Post-trib" is short for "Post-tribulation rapture". Both of these views, as well as the mid-trib view, assume a rapture prior to Christ's return. I don't believe there will be such a rapture. I believe that those verses many say refer to a rapture (whenever it takes place) and those that refer to Christ's second coming are referring to the same event.

I hope your condition improves, I had a step brother with the same condition and it's a scary thing to just go out and wake up somewhere else with no idea how much time passed or what even happened. I understand that to be pretty unnerving.

I would describe it more as confusing than unnerving. Maybe that's because I'm used to it. After many adjustments to my medications, I finally got something that did some good when I was around 18 years old. My medications have changed a few times since, and I now need very little drugs and only have seizures if I forget to take them for a few days. I haven't had a seizure for about 15 years now.

However, you still have dreams

In my experience, there are no dreams during unconsciousness. During a seizure, there is plenty of brain activity (too much actually, which is what causes the seizure) but no dreams. Having a grand mal seizure (the kind with the convulsions, which is what I have) takes a lot of energy and people usually fall asleep afterward. During that time there can be dreams.

I have lost consciousness a few times in other ways, a couple of times by falling and hitting my head and once by being punched hard in the head, but each time I only lost consciousness for a few seconds, so I can't really say anything about dreams in those cases.

Since your a spirit with a soul

I will freely admit that I don't understand the nature of the spirit and soul or the difference and interaction between the two or between them and the body, so I won't comment.

I would rethink this...

That's just it. I did rethink it. I used to believe, as most Christians seem to, that we would go to Heaven or Hell as soon as we die and that there would be a pre-tribulation rapture. By thinking it through logically, I saw that there is no way those two beliefs can fit together. Either one or both of them must be wrong. After considering the verses that are used to support soul sleep and those that are used to prove it wrong, I came to the conclusion that both beliefs - the rapture and going instantly to Heaven/Hell - are wrong.

The TOG
​

 

[Brother Mike]

That's just it. I did rethink it. I used to believe, as most Christians seem to, that we would go to Heaven or Hell as soon as we die and that there would be a pre-tribulation rapture. By thinking it through logically, I saw that there is no way those two beliefs can fit together. Either one or both of them must be wrong. After considering the verses that are used to support soul sleep and those that are used to prove it wrong, I came to the conclusion that both beliefs - the rapture and going instantly to Heaven/Hell - are wrong.

Ok then...........

Mike.

 

[TOG]

And there you have Brother Mike, another very well worded ppost from TOG with no scripture. Thats right, Brother Mike, No Scripture. Tell him what he has won, Brother Mike, on today's "This was your Life", for the best "Person Opinion" of the day!

Can you point out the scripture in your post that I quoted in it's entirety above?

The TOG
​

 

[Brother Mike]

Tell him what he has won, Brother Mike, on today's "This was your Life", for the best "Person Opinion" of the day!

All the scripture I posted "To die is to be with the Lord" "Alter of souls in Heaven wanting vengeance" Were ignored, not much to do at this point. Ecc makes it clear that someone that dies has no more part under the sun..... The sun shines on the earth so their part is finished with all physical things on Earth. The spirit of the man who acted like a beast goes down, the spirit of man that followed God went up.
You don't sends spirits to different places to sleep in different beds. Down means bad awaits and up means good awaits.

So...................... OK.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

Tell him what he has won, Brother Mike, on today's "This was your Life", for the best "Person Opinion" of the day!

All the scripture I posted "To die is to be with the Lord" "Alter of souls in Heaven wanting vengeance" Were ignored, not much to do at this point. Ecc makes it clear that someone that dies has no more part under the sun..... The sun shines on the earth so their part is finished with all physical things on Earth. The spirit of the man who acted like a beast goes down, the spirit of man that followed God went up.
You don't sends spirits to different places to sleep in different beds. Down means bad awaits and up means good awaits.

So...................... OK.

Mike.

And there you have, folks.

Down = Bad

Up = Good

With me --------

Without me _________



Got it!


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

And there you have, folks.

Down = Bad

Up = Good

With me --------

Without me _________



Got it!

Even so........... Hell had different parts or two regions.

Job 14:13 O that in Sheol Thou wouldest conceal me, Hide me till the turning of Thine anger, Set for me a limit, and remember me.

Job remarks of a place in Hell where he could hide out until the Lord turns his anger.

Gen 37:35 and all his sons and all his daughters rise to comfort him, and he refuseth to comfort himself, and saith, `For--I go down mourning unto my son, to Sheol,' and his father weepeth for him.

Jacob fearing his son dead, knew the place to find him. (No he was not planing to go there for bed and breakfast and a good long sleep)

Jesus gives a very good description of this place, and the two regions.

Luk_16:2 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

6Act 2:27 because Thou wilt not leave my soul to hades, nor wilt Thou give Thy Kind One to see corruption;

David was also going to wait in this hellish place but even more hellish was on the other side of that gulf................David's hope was that the Lord would not leave him there.

After Jesus did His great work, preached to the spirits in Hades (Hell) Paul said this........

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

We have confidence that once we are dead, we are with the Lord. Meaning that man no longer had to go into the more pleasant place of Sheol, Hades, Hell.

And that is the WORD!!!!

Mike.

 

[JLB]

Even so........... Hell had different parts or two regions.

Amen

esus gives a very good description of this place, and the two regions. Luk_16:2 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Amen

And that is the WORD!!!!

Amen!!!!!!

 

[TOG]

Brother, what you posted was not scripture, it was your commentary, your opinion. Maybe now would be a good time for you to learn the difference.

Which of the following are you referring to?

And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.”So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.” The woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the necromancers from the land. Why then are you laying a trap for my life to bring about my death?” But Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.” Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.” When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul.” The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage. (I SAM. 28:7-14 ESV)

Now I have given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, my servant, and I have given him also the beasts of the field to serve him. (Jer. 27:6 ESV)

Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (I Cor. 5:8 ESV)

Which of those is not Scripture, but my commentary?

The TOG
​

 

[reba]

Closed for clean up

@JLB if you want every one else to only post scripture make sure you do the same.

Your posts 67, 69, 71,74,75 have no scripture

Most often i would prefer to keep this privet this is an exception the rudeness it over the top.

The posts number above are currant but will change when the deletions happen..

Please consider this an official warning.

 

[reba]

Opened

 

[Sparkey]

See, if someone says "Mike your [edited by Moderator], that is not scripture, you just making stuff up about God."

I really enjoy that because you don't catch Mike posting anything without a scripture to back it exactly and if someone actually does catch me, I would hope they had enough love to snap me out of it.

I hear you saying, in your own manner, that it is better to be slapped by a friend than to be kissed by an enemy. Enjoyed by you or not, my friend, it goes against the tenor of the Terms of Service. Just the Name_Calling, but you already know. I do appreciate the heart of compassion expressed by you and also by JLB (and others). That sentiment simply is not, nor may it be, expressed often enough. I would apologize though as I have not read through the thread and have no firm opinion to offer on topic. Sorry, but just wanted to stop in and add a little Col 4:6 seasoning.

Blessings to ya!

As a moderator, I'll give you three (3) more hours to continue to defend others. Wait. Did I say hours? I mean three (3) more days. Hmmmm... Three (3) more years (decades?) with an option to auto-extend.... especially as the Spirit leads. Yeah, that's the ticket.

 

[Brother Mike]

I hear you saying, in your own manner, that it is better to be slapped by a friend than to be kissed by an enemy. Enjoyed by you or not, my friend, it goes against the tenor of the Terms of Service. Just the Name_Calling, but you already know. I do appreciate the heart of compassion expressed by you and also by JLB (and others). That sentiment simply is not, nor may it be, expressed often enough. I would apologize though as I have not read through the thread and have no firm opinion to offer on topic. Sorry, but just wanted to stop in and add a little Col 4:6 seasoning.

Blessings to ya!

I know what your saying but if someone gets irritated enough and passionate to call me stupid then I have to ask if it was me that is not seeing the whole picture. Being called names does not hurt anyway, but I certainly don't want to miss anything.

Even JLB and our Pre- Post Trib debate He often ask why I can't read and make stuff up. The thing is I go back again and we both read the same things but we both understand it to mean something different. These cases the scripture is there we both read it the same but come to a different conclusion.

Not much you can do about that............

When people just make stuff up without scripture though, I don't want to be the one making it up and hope someone would bust me out for it. If they are nice, fine, if not fine I just want to get it right.

The Word of God is perfect we should have the same excellence with no scripture contradictions at all accepted.

Mike.

 

[reba]

off topic any one?

 

[JLB]

If you had come to my house at around 3 AM last night, you would have found me awake. Does that prove that I don't sleep?

Maybe I need to hear what your perspective is on "soul sleep".

Were are these people who "sleep after they die", where do they go?

Do you believe that people who die sleep, in that they are unconsciousness, or unaware of anything.

Then they wake up for a while like people who are alive, and go back to sleep.

Is that what the doctrine of "soul sleep" means.

Please help me to understand what you mean by this term "soul sleep".


JLB

 

[TOG]

If you had come to my house at around 3 AM last night, you would have found me awake. Does that prove that I don't sleep?

Maybe I need to hear what your perspective is on "soul sleep".

Were are these people who "sleep after they die", where do they go?

I have no idea where they are. You believe they are in Heaven, right? So, can you tell me where Heaven is? No? I didn't think so.

Do you believe that people who die sleep, in that they are unconsciousness, or unaware of anything.

Yes. That is what I believe.

Then they wake up for a while like people who are alive, and go back to sleep.

Why do you have to twist everything I say? You're basing this on what... three instances in the Bible?

• Samuel
• Elijah
• Moses

The only one that saw Samuel was a witch. Do we really want to believe the word of a witch and base our faith on it? "But Samuel spoke the word of God", you say, "so it must have been him and not a demon pretending to be him, as would be the case with mediums today." But demons and even Pagan humans cannot speak against God if He won't let them. Remember Balaam? He was a Pagan prophet, but God only allowed him to speak what He told him to (Num. 22:38). Then there was also the slave girl who had a spirit of divination who followed the apostles around telling everyone that they were from God (Acts 16:16-18). Elijah never died, so he can't really be used as an example of what happens when we die, can he? That leaves us one credible example of an individual deceased person appearing to living people - Moses. We are also told that after Jesus rose, many holy men also rose and came out of their tombs (Matt. 27:52-53). That, however, was a different situation, since they were actually resurrected from the dead and didn't just appear as Moses did for a short time.

Now think about it. How many people have died throughout history? And out of those billions of people who have died, we have one credible example of one of them appearing to living people. Even if you count Samuel and Elijah, that's still only 3 out of many billions. And you ask whether "they wake up for a while like people who are alive, and go back to sleep"? Who are "they"? Moses? Is he "they"? Or are you talking about all three examples as being normative of many billions who have died? I believe that it wasn't Samuel that the witch spoke to and since Elijah didn't die, then he doesn't really count in this context. I believe that Moses was an exception. All the billions of others - every single one of them except Moses - has been totally unconscious since their deaths. Just because you can point to a maximum of 3 people, doesn't prove anything about what happens to billions of others.

Is that what the doctrine of "soul sleep" means.

Please help me to understand what you mean by this term "soul sleep".

First of all, I don't like the term "soul sleep", but in a nutshell, this is what I believe - When we die we become totally unconscious of our surroundings and lose all sense of the passage of time. We remain in this unconscious state until either Christ returns at the end of the tribulation (if we're saved) or until the end of his millennial reign (if we're not saved). At that time we are resurrected and receive our reward or punishment, as the case may be. Since we have lost all sense of time, it will seem to us that we go instantly from our death beds to our eternal destinations.

The TOG
​

 

[JLB]

TOG said -

Why do you have to twist everything I say? You're basing this on what... three instances in the Bible?

I'm just going by this statement from your post, that says -

If you had come to my house at around 3 AM last night, you would have found me awake. Does that prove that I don't sleep?

This statement leads me to believe that "soul sleep" involves people who die, that are asleep , but somehow wake up for awhile, then go back to sleep.


JLB