The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil

[Spirit Driven]

Hello Free,

God did not need to put the tree of knowledge between good and evil in the garden at all, he could have removed any possibility of Adam and Eve going near the tree at all.

God could also have not given the serpent the power to decieve the woman, because the only power the serpent has was given to him by God, and then God could have barred the serpent from the garden, but instead he placed the serpent in the garden with the man and the woman.

Give your two children a loaded gun with a falty safety catch, shut them in a room and walk off...... what do you reckon is going to happen ?

God planned the fall, to begin with..... its one of those instances like the Bible tells us about how.... the wisdom of God cannot be fathomed from begining to end, but can often be seen in hindsight.

By looking back we can see the wisdom of the Lord in hindsight, Adam and Eve where the first of the ALL that God shut up in disobedience.


Peace

 

[John the Baptist]

I think one of the keys in this is: "the knowledge of good and evil". Those who propose that Adam and Eve couldn't have sinned because they supposedly didn't know right from wrong, good from evil, must first prove that that is precisely what that statement means. Does "the knowledge of good and evil" simply mean that they didn't know right from wrong?

I find it rather odd that God would tell Adam to not eat of the tree and give him the consequence if he did, if Adam couldn't tell the difference between right and wrong. The command would have been utterly pointless. God may as well have told Adam not to use the Apple to look at porn on the Internet.

Another point that would need to be proven is that ignorance is an excuse for disobeying God. Does ignorance negate the fact that it was sin or negate its consequences? If that were the case, what does that mean for your theology or Christian theology in general?

As Francis Schaeffer states, the crux of the matter is that Eve wanted to be like God, she wanted to be the center of the universe. It wasn't necessarily the act of eating the apple that was sinful, it was the intent behind it.

Kind of interesting how that is the reason Satan was kicked out of heaven, what Satan used to tempt Adam and Eve, and how it is the thought behind much of pagan spirituality and other religions these days.

***
Very good posting! (it might have been an apple?)
One needs to realize that there are two kind of spirits around this place also!

---John

 

[Atonement]

One needs to realize the there are two kind of spirits around this place also!

AMEN!!!

 

[lovely]

I agree, good post, Free.

Drew,

I think it is a mistake to think that Adam didn't know he was being disobedient to God because he hadn't yet eaten of the tree. What else could it be to not heed God's words, and warning? He was probably more intelligent than we are in such matters having walked with God himself. The Tree was the test of obedience. The act, and it's consequence, were the results of the test, and it brought about death, and the experience of being in sin...the Knowledge of good and evil.

Their eyes were opened to good and evil, but their souls were condemned in spiritual death apart from God, hence their shame in nakedness, and later their unrepentant state. In fact, God slaughtered an animal to cover them...very symbolic of Christ, the Lamb, covering our sin. The tree of Life was removed so that they would not live forever physically in a cursed state.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Man was like God in knowing good and evil, but unlike God in that he experienced it in unholy action, instead of having the knowing in holiness, as God does.

The Lord bless you.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Well, I can't speak for Adam, but I do know that from time to time God tells me to do, or not to do something. There has never been any doubt in my mind what He was telling me. I have never been able to claim that I did not know what "Don't do it meant". I may not know the reasons why. I may not have a list of consequences of things that will happen if I do what He said not to do. But I can not imagine God speaking to me in a language that I do not understand, and then punishing me for my lack of understanding.

 

[John the Baptist]

A double post? : ---John :robot:

 

[John the Baptist]

Sure we know about Adam. Timothy is from 'Inspiration' even from the N.T. of 1 Timothy 2:14
"And Adam was not deceived, ..." In other words, he knew what he did was 'sin'! See 1 John 5:16-17 for the full MATURE END. Also James 1:15

---John

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Here is a thought that crossed my mind as I read through this thread. Do you suppose that the serpent took a bite out of anything while slithering around the garden?

 

[lovely]

Amen, John.

 

[Spirit Driven]

Sure we know about Adam. Timothy is from 'Inspiration' even from the N.T. of 1 Timothy 2:14
"And Adam was not deceived, ..." In other words, he knew what he did was 'sin'! See 1 John 5:16-17 for the full MATURE END. Also James 1:15

---John

ho hum.......zzzzzzzzzz

The Lord of hosts has sworn saying, "Surely, just as I have intended so it has happened, and just as I have planned so it will stand (Isaiah 14:24).

Peace

 

[John the Baptist]

ho hum.......zzzzzzzzzz

The Lord of hosts has sworn saying, "Surely, just as I have intended so it has happened, and just as I have planned so it will stand (Isaiah 14:24).

Peace

***********
Rom. 4:
[17] (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Until you get the Spirit of Acts 5:32, John 3:3, Romans 8:1. Romans 8:14
(for starters!) you will never get your act together. For there is no one that is Born Again that does not understand that the Godhead is Immortal, meaning in ALL OF ETERNITY, and in all directions of Eternity with NO starting point!! And in the knowledge of ETERNITY, and as BOTH verses [DOCUMENT]!

So you need to [WAKE UP] from you acknowledged sleep, and do a thorough %100 of I GIVE UP LORD from your self importance. So that you can understand what the Godhead gave when they gave all their creation a 'free will'! Angels, other worlds, and earths creation. And you too, no, They knew what you are & were going to say, yet, They also know & knew, if you would stick with this 'self-free-foolishness of choice! James 1:15

The question has NOTHING to do with the Godhead's knowledge in the above, (your verse or the Rom. 4:17 Truth) that of knowing what you have done & said, even while in ALL of their Eternities of for/knowledge. (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14) The END result is that all of these others do not know!! But, this is why They have permitted this TRIAL of their SELF by Their creation, to forever settle the sin question. See Nahum 1:9 & Obadiah 1:16. And yes, surely, They full well new in Eternity what this freedom had cost! ALL WAS SEEN IN ETERNITY OF THE PLANED AND FOR/KNOWLEDGE PAIN & SORROW OF A FUTURE NEEDED SON, EVEN TO BE 'SPIT ON' BY SOME BY A FREE WILL CHOICE! : See both Revelation 14:6 & Hebrews 13:20 Forum!

So young'in, (of Hebrews 5:12-13) you best leave the heavier food to the ones who understand it! 1 John 4:6. See 2 Corinthians 4:2 with the last verses of WARNING of the WORD!

---John

 

[AHIMSA]

I really don't think anyone has answered this question.


The basics of this are:

Did Adam understand what good and evil, right and wrong were before he ate the apple?

If so, how did he attain this knowledge without eating of the fruit and why would he eat of the fruit to attain the knowledge if he already possesed what it contained?

 

[John the Baptist]

I really don't think anyone has answered this question.


The basics of this are:

Did Adam understand what good and evil, right and wrong were before he ate the apple?

If so, how did he attain this knowledge without eating of the fruit and why would he eat of the fruit to attain the knowledge if he already possesed what it contained?

***

Apple??

 

[Free]

I really don't think anyone has answered this question.


The basics of this are:

Did Adam understand what good and evil, right and wrong were before he ate the apple?

If so, how did he attain this knowledge without eating of the fruit and why would he eat of the fruit to attain the knowledge if he already possesed what it contained?

It can't be answered until you prove your underlying assumptions which have been pointed out.


John,

As you pointed out earlier, it likely wasn't an apple as they aren't indigenous to the Middle East. Maybe a fig?

 

[John the Baptist]

It can't be answered until you prove your underlying assumptions which have been pointed out.


John,

As you pointed out earlier, it likely wasn't an apple as they aren't indigenous to the Middle East. Maybe a fig?

But seeing that some can't 'see' to good Free, they would just need to 'taste them both' (all & every sin) to tell the difference, between good & evil, huh? :wink:
---John

 

[stranger]

I really don't think anyone has answered this question.


The basics of this are:

Did Adam understand what good and evil, right and wrong were before he ate the apple?

If so, how did he attain this knowledge without eating of the fruit and why would he eat of the fruit to attain the knowledge if he already possesed what it contained?

Hi,
The framework is what God told Adam: NASB Gen 2: 16,17 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, 'From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day you eat from it you shall surely die'.

Adam understood the command that was given him. He had a framework of just one command - and he was told the consequence that would follow.
There is no letting humanity off the hook - under this false argument - that Adam did not know what he was doing AND THEREFORE WAS NOT CULPABLE.

It is little wonder that if responsibility is denied here through subtle argument - that it is shifted onto God - as you have intimated in an earlier post. I repeat what I have said earlier: if you look for the pearl of great price in the wrong field you will never find it. My hope is that you will find it.

In Christ: Stranger

 

[Quath]

Adam understood the command that was given him. He had a framework of just one command - and he was told the consequence that would follow.
There is no letting humanity off the hook - under this false argument - that Adam did not know what he was doing AND THEREFORE WAS NOT CULPABLE.

God said that Adam would die on the day that he ate of the fruit. Adam did not die, so God lied. Christians can not believe this and they put spin on this and say stuff like "spiritual death" (yet also claiming that the spirit did not die).

My take on this story is that the tree is not just knowledge of Good and Evil, it is knowledge of everything from Good to Evil (or in other words, knowledge of everything). This was a litary device that the ancient Hebrews used in their writing.

I think a key passage is what God says before he exiles the humans: "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." So one key phrase is "one of us." The Hebrews were polythistic and saw God (or Yahweh) as the leader of the pantheon of gods (or Host). So what God was saying is that if humans reached immorality by eating from the tree of life, they would then be gods like the other gods.

Now I know that Christians will just dismiss this, but I figured I would toss out my 2 cents.

 

[stranger]

God said that Adam would die on the day that he ate of the fruit. Adam did not die, so God lied. Christians can not believe this and they put spin on this and say stuff like "spiritual death" (yet also claiming that the spirit did not die). . . .

However, let us proceed with the discussion:

The Apostle Paul says : Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned. for until the Law sin was in the world but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of Adam's offence, who is a type of Him who was to come. Rom 5:12-14 NASB

The above text suggests to me 1. that sin entered into mankind and
2. that death followed.

It is not spin to to say 'through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin'. In Gen 5: 5 you will find the words about Adam .... and he died . . .a considerable time afterwards. That was Adam returning to dust.

The above account is consistent with thought and reason.

In Christ: Stranger

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

I really don't think anyone has answered this question.


The basics of this are:

Did Adam understand what good and evil, right and wrong were before he ate the apple?

If so, how did he attain this knowledge without eating of the fruit and why would he eat of the fruit to attain the knowledge if he already possesed what it contained?

What did Adam know, and when did he know it....
Gen 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

In this verse right here. God speaks. He told Adam that he may eat from all of the other trees but one. That is the magic moment that Adam knew that he was not supposed to eat from that one tree. Did he know everything about good and evil? No. He had at that moment everything that he needed to know. Does it mean that Adam was completely ignorant about good and evil? He knew 'do not eat that fruit, because God said not to eat that fruit'.

 

[Rick W]

What did Adam know, and when did he know it....
Gen 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

In this verse right here. God speaks. He told Adam that he may eat from all of the other trees but one. That is the magic moment that Adam knew that he was not supposed to eat from that one tree. Did he know everything about good and evil? No. He had at that moment everything that he needed to know. Does it mean that Adam was completely ignorant about good and evil? He knew 'do not eat that fruit, because God said not to eat that fruit'.

Exactly.

He knew to abide by the commandments of God since he showed compliance in all else God told him.
Adam was without excuse for eating the apple. He was told not to do it by any account. Simple as that.

Did Adam understand what good and evil, right and wrong were before he ate the apple?

If so, how did he attain this knowledge without eating of the fruit and why would he eat of the fruit to attain the knowledge if he already possesed what it contained?

As a child I'm sure you were told not to do some things. You knew not to whether you understood the reasons or not. Didn't matter did it? You complied KNOWING not to do those things.

In short, you knew an act was wrong for the very fact the commandment was given.

When Adam then ate the apple he knew and understood intrinsically what was evil and good by knowledge he attained. He acquired the understanding of right and wrong. Yet, he still chose to make excuse blaming not only Eve but God Himself.