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Tired of all the political strife and infighting?
Find out how Christians are supposed to act in the following study
https://christianforums.net/threads/charismatic-bible-studies-1-peter-2-11-17.109823/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The Trinity
- Thread starter joethemechanic
- Start date
Y
Yah1
Guest
Yes, Jesus IS God the Father in heaven AND the son. Jesus is not God’s Son in the sense of a human father and a son. God did not get married and have a son. God did not mate with Mary and, together with her, produce a son. Jesus is God’s Son in the sense that He is God made manifest in human form. Jesus is God's Son in that He was conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:35 declares, “The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.’
Only through FAITH do we believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. Listen carefully, God the Father is a spirit, Jesus was flesh, the spirit of God is Holy..thus sending down the Holy Spirit, the comforter, helper and counselor. This is where religious people hit a dead end, the reason for the dead end is because they lack FAITH. FAITH separates a religious man from a born again man. Scriptures can only take you so far until you hit that dead end. You have to confess through your heart and mouth that Jesus was in fact God in the flesh, confess your sins and ask for forgiveness. And only then you will be born of the Holy Spirit. The reason very few get to this point is because of pride, and people don't want to confess they are sinners. That's why you need FAITH to believe. You see, the older i get and the more i grow in my FAITH, i'm starting to understand there are two kinds of christians in this world, religious and born again. Born of water, and born of spirit. Which one are you? What's your definition of FAITH? FAITH, FAITH, FAITH!
Y
Yah1
Guest
I disagree 2 Corinthians 5:7
Eventide
Member
Re: The One who inhabits eternity...
You believe that Jesus began before the world began... is that right.. ? And If I'm reading this correctly you also believe that Jesus wasn't created.. but that He did not always exist... so I'm not sure how that works.. perhaps you can explain further ?
If this is true then there should be scriptural basis for it.. right ? That's why I asked.. what scripture(s) do you base this belief upon ? And once again forgive me if you've already posted scripture concerning these things.
You believe that Jesus began before the world began... is that right.. ? And If I'm reading this correctly you also believe that Jesus wasn't created.. but that He did not always exist... so I'm not sure how that works.. perhaps you can explain further ?
If this is true then there should be scriptural basis for it.. right ? That's why I asked.. what scripture(s) do you base this belief upon ? And once again forgive me if you've already posted scripture concerning these things.
Re: The One who inhabits eternity...
I didn't state Jesus's Spirit wasn't formed. I stated the fullness that was pleased to dwell in Him wasn't formed. (The Father) As firstborn of all creation (a Son) Jesus has a beginning which means there was a point in history He was born from the Father. (before the world began) (before the angels of God)
Randy
I didn't state Jesus's Spirit wasn't formed. I stated the fullness that was pleased to dwell in Him wasn't formed. (The Father) As firstborn of all creation (a Son) Jesus has a beginning which means there was a point in history He was born from the Father. (before the world began) (before the angels of God)
Randy
Re: The One who inhabits eternity...
While I believe the scripture you quoted I am not sure the point you were making in reference to the Trinity.
Randy
While I believe the scripture you quoted I am not sure the point you were making in reference to the Trinity.
Randy
There is only One God. Jesus stated the One true God was the Father. If Jesus always was (not a Son) and always was God How did He become the Son?
If Jesus always was and always was God ( a theology) how then does that hold to one God for Jesus stated on the cross "Father into your hands I commit MY SPIRIT"
Is Jesus God?
He never dies as He lives by the living Father.
Yes, He is all that Father is. (The fullness was pleased to dwell in Him) Jesus taught the Father was in Him.
No, He has always been the Son. As Paul wrote in the context of Jesus's being and who Jesus is. "The Firstborn of all creation"
Randy
If Jesus always was and always was God ( a theology) how then does that hold to one God for Jesus stated on the cross "Father into your hands I commit MY SPIRIT"
Is Jesus God?
He never dies as He lives by the living Father.
Yes, He is all that Father is. (The fullness was pleased to dwell in Him) Jesus taught the Father was in Him.
No, He has always been the Son. As Paul wrote in the context of Jesus's being and who Jesus is. "The Firstborn of all creation"
Randy
Eventide
Member
Re: The One who inhabits eternity...
So again, what scripture is this based upon ?
Being firstborn doesn't mandate that He did not preexist.. because He is the firstborn from the dead.. with respect to His CREATION.. and the whole creations groans and is waiting for the adoption, to witness the manifestation of the sons of God.
Being firstborn from the dead here in no way necessitates having a beginning..
So again, what scripture is this based upon ?
Being firstborn doesn't mandate that He did not preexist.. because He is the firstborn from the dead.. with respect to His CREATION.. and the whole creations groans and is waiting for the adoption, to witness the manifestation of the sons of God.
Being firstborn from the dead here in no way necessitates having a beginning..
If Jesus is the begotten son of God then he is God in every way. Name a son who is not equal to his father. Everything reproduces after its own kind.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
Re: The One who inhabits eternity...
"of all creation"
I am still waiting for the answer to the questions I asked. Its clear that I believe He is the Son born from the Father.
You need to show a separate Jesus who always was and always was God and then state how you only believe in one God.
The church can't explain the trinity without "Its a mystery"
Again please answer my questions. You state you read "Firstborn of all creation as no beginning" Fine but I disagree with your take.
Start with what you know to be true. There is only One God and Jesus stated the Father was the One true God. Jesus stated the Father was greater then Him. The Father is His God and our God. Jesus remains in the Fathers love by keeping the Fathers will in the same context we remain in Jesus's love by obeying Jesus's commands.
Randy
"of all creation"
I am still waiting for the answer to the questions I asked. Its clear that I believe He is the Son born from the Father.
You need to show a separate Jesus who always was and always was God and then state how you only believe in one God.
The church can't explain the trinity without "Its a mystery"
Again please answer my questions. You state you read "Firstborn of all creation as no beginning" Fine but I disagree with your take.
Start with what you know to be true. There is only One God and Jesus stated the Father was the One true God. Jesus stated the Father was greater then Him. The Father is His God and our God. Jesus remains in the Fathers love by keeping the Fathers will in the same context we remain in Jesus's love by obeying Jesus's commands.
Randy
Eventide
Member
Re: The One who inhabits eternity...
I thought that I did..
We know for a fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is the FIRSTBORN from the dead.. and that's with respect to His creation... for DEATH has passed upon all men.. in the first Adam.. and even the Last Adam was made in the likeness of sinful flesh precisely to put away sin in the flesh.. He bore our sins in His own body on that forsaken cross..
Now seriously.. how does Christ being the FIRSTBORN from the dead mandate that He had a beginning..? He obviously existed prior to coming into this world.. He obviously existed prior to going to the cross for our sins.. and yet He is the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD... because He ROSE from the dead according to the scriptures..
That has massive implications for His CREATION... because as in Adam all DIE.. so in CHRIST all shall be made alive.. in their time..
The LORD isn't finished with His CREATION by any stretch of the imagination.. and as mentioned.. the whole CREATION groans and is waiting.. even WE who HAVE the first fruits of the SPIRIT.. we groan within ourselves.. and we're WAITING for that DAY.. when He will change these vile bodies and fashion them like unto HIS GLORIOUS BODY..
That's a simple example of how He can also be the FIRSTBORN over His creation.. by being the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD.
The first man is of the EARTH.. EARTHY.. the second man is the LORD from HEAVEN.
He's not finished with us yet... and we know not yet what we shall be.. but we shall be like HIM..
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
There's infinitely more to come.. in Christ Jesus our LORD..
I thought that I did..
We know for a fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is the FIRSTBORN from the dead.. and that's with respect to His creation... for DEATH has passed upon all men.. in the first Adam.. and even the Last Adam was made in the likeness of sinful flesh precisely to put away sin in the flesh.. He bore our sins in His own body on that forsaken cross..
Now seriously.. how does Christ being the FIRSTBORN from the dead mandate that He had a beginning..? He obviously existed prior to coming into this world.. He obviously existed prior to going to the cross for our sins.. and yet He is the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD... because He ROSE from the dead according to the scriptures..
That has massive implications for His CREATION... because as in Adam all DIE.. so in CHRIST all shall be made alive.. in their time..
The LORD isn't finished with His CREATION by any stretch of the imagination.. and as mentioned.. the whole CREATION groans and is waiting.. even WE who HAVE the first fruits of the SPIRIT.. we groan within ourselves.. and we're WAITING for that DAY.. when He will change these vile bodies and fashion them like unto HIS GLORIOUS BODY..
That's a simple example of how He can also be the FIRSTBORN over His creation.. by being the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD.
The first man is of the EARTH.. EARTHY.. the second man is the LORD from HEAVEN.
He's not finished with us yet... and we know not yet what we shall be.. but we shall be like HIM..
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
There's infinitely more to come.. in Christ Jesus our LORD..
Last edited by a moderator:
A
Asyncritus
Guest
Simply because God was going TO MAKE Him His firstborn. That statement is in Ps 89.27, and shows clearly, that AT THE TIME IT WAS WRITTEN, Jesus WAS NOT God's firstborn.
If the Queen is going to MAKE YOU a Knight of the Realm on Dec 6th, then that clearly means that you ARE NOT a Knight of the Realm AT PRESENT. Similarly here. Jesus WAS NOTGod's first born in BC 600 or whenever that was written.
It was written hundreds of years before His birth or resurrection, let's say in BC 600 or so.
Therefore, in BC 600, Jesus WAS NOT God's firstborn. Who was, then?
Answer, Israel:
Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Therefore, there was a time when God made or appointed Him the Firstborn. When was that?
Rom.1.4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
So Answer: At the resurrection.
Therefore, 'the firstbegotten from the dead' is also equivalent to 'the firstborn of all creation', with the caveat that it is IN CHRIST shall all be made alive. Meaning all creation in Christ.
2 Cor 5.17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.RSV and ESV.
Isn't it easy to understand then, what 'the firstborn of all creation' means? It is the firstborn of all creation IN CHRIST. As I said before, it is silly to think that the NT is talking about the sardines and the orangutans when it talks about Jesus being the Head of 'all creation'.
He obviously did not, otherwise you are faced with the impossible problem of accounting for how He was CONCEIVED of the virgin Mary, and not implanted, transplanted or something else.
Actually, can I ask if you think He was transplanted etc into her womb?
Quite right. For 33.5 years.
There's no need for the 'yet' in there. He IS the 'firstborn from the dead'.
Eventide
Member
Asyncritus, I don't understand how you can think that He didn't exist prior to being conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, in Mary ? ? ?
In the volume of the book it is written of HIM..
So I want to understand your statement here.. You do not believe that Christ existed before He was manifest in the Flesh ? Even though the scriptures are clear in teaching that HE is the ROOT and the OFFSPRING of David ?
The scriptures don't teach that He was transplanted.. but rather that He was miraculously conceived within Mary, after she believed the message from above.. imo it's an infinitely wondrous picture of being born again.. and having CHRIST born in us, after we hear the message from above, and believe.
So I'm not sure where you're getting transplanted from etc..?
Re: The One who inhabits eternity...
I am sorry I don't follow what you wrote explains the trinity or a Jesus who always was. I also didn't see an answer to my questions in how you hold to One God. I guess we will have to disagree in a Jesus that always was.
Randy
I am sorry I don't follow what you wrote explains the trinity or a Jesus who always was. I also didn't see an answer to my questions in how you hold to One God. I guess we will have to disagree in a Jesus that always was.
Randy
Eventide
Member
Re: The One who inhabits eternity...
I think that the scriptures are abundantly clear in showing us that the Father is God, that the Son is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God.. and that they are truly ONE GOD.
IMO we also do not need to understand the mystery of God.. that's what makes GOD GOD in a way.. although there are serious problems with any teaching that diminishes the glory of God in Christ, making Him divine rather than Deity.. creature rather than Creator.. etc..
I'll be the first to admit that I can't even begin to understand the absolute nature of GOD.. although the last thing in the world which I would teach or preach is that the Lord Jesus Christ is somehow LESS than GOD manifest in the flesh..
Did God provide Himself a Lamb or something less than Himself.. ?
I think that the scriptures are abundantly clear in showing us that the Father is God, that the Son is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God.. and that they are truly ONE GOD.
IMO we also do not need to understand the mystery of God.. that's what makes GOD GOD in a way.. although there are serious problems with any teaching that diminishes the glory of God in Christ, making Him divine rather than Deity.. creature rather than Creator.. etc..
I'll be the first to admit that I can't even begin to understand the absolute nature of GOD.. although the last thing in the world which I would teach or preach is that the Lord Jesus Christ is somehow LESS than GOD manifest in the flesh..
Did God provide Himself a Lamb or something less than Himself.. ?
smaller
Member
Re: The One who inhabits eternity...
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.