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Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Carefully read this passage:
Matthew 1:18 "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit."
Is Jesus "The Father" who "formed Himself" into a human being, as you say? Or is Jesus the Son of His Father? Or, is He the Son of the Holy Spirit? The Scripture says: "She was found with child of the Holy Spirit."
So, I would ask that you answer a very important question using the Scriptures; and I would also ask that you pray and meditate on this question thoroughly before you answer:
- If the trinity is true, how is it that Jesus Christ was CONCEIVED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, but is the SON OF GOD THE FATHER???
No, the Son is not the Father. It's good to make a careful study of the Persons of the Godhead in John's Gospel, First Epistle, and elsewhere.
Before the world began.
Randy
You believe that Jesus began before the world began... is that right.. ? And If I'm reading this correctly you also believe that Jesus wasn't created.. but that He did not always exist... so I'm not sure how that works.. perhaps you can explain further ?
If this is true then there should be scriptural basis for it.. right ? That's why I asked.. what scripture(s) do you base this belief upon ? And once again forgive me if you've already posted scripture concerning these things.
Revelation 12:7 - And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
Luke 10:18 - Jesus replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
I didn't state Jesus's Spirit wasn't formed. I stated the fullness that was pleased to dwell in Him wasn't formed. (The Father) As firstborn of all creation (a Son) Jesus has a beginning which means there was a point in history He was born from the Father. (before the world began) (before the angels of God)
Randy
There is only One God. Jesus stated the One true God was the Father. If Jesus always was (not a Son) and always was God How did He become the Son?
If Jesus always was and always was God ( a theology) how then does that hold to one God for Jesus stated on the cross "Father into your hands I commit MY SPIRIT"
Is Jesus God?
He never dies as He lives by the living Father.
Yes, He is all that Father is. (The fullness was pleased to dwell in Him) Jesus taught the Father was in Him.
No, He has always been the Son. As Paul wrote in the context of Jesus's being and who Jesus is. "The Firstborn of all creation"
Randy
So again, what scripture is this based upon ?
Being firstborn doesn't mandate that He did not preexist.. because He is the firstborn from the dead.. with respect to His CREATION.. and the whole creations groans and is waiting for the adoption, to witness the manifestation of the sons of God.
Being firstborn from the dead here in no way necessitates having a beginning..
"of all creation"
I am still waiting for the answer to the questions I asked. Its clear that I believe He is the Son born from the Father.
You need to show a separate Jesus who always was and always was God and then state how you only believe in one God.
The church can't explain the trinity without "Its a mystery"
Again please answer my questions. You state you read "Firstborn of all creation as no beginning" Fine but I disagree with your take.
Start with what you know to be true. There is only One God and Jesus stated the Father was the One true God. Jesus stated the Father was greater then Him. The Father is His God and our God. Jesus remains in the Fathers love by keeping the Fathers will in the same context we remain in Jesus's love by obeying Jesus's commands.
Randy
Simply because God was going TO MAKE Him His firstborn. That statement is in Ps 89.27, and shows clearly, that AT THE TIME IT WAS WRITTEN, Jesus WAS NOT God's firstborn.Now seriously.. how does Christ being the FIRSTBORN from the dead mandate that He had a beginning..?
He obviously did not, otherwise you are faced with the impossible problem of accounting for how He was CONCEIVED of the virgin Mary, and not implanted, transplanted or something else.He obviously existed prior to coming into this world..
Quite right. For 33.5 years.He obviously existed prior to going to the cross for our sins..
There's no need for the 'yet' in there. He IS the 'firstborn from the dead'.and yet He is the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD... because He ROSE from the dead according to the scriptures..
He obviously did not, otherwise you are faced with the impossible problem of accounting for how He was CONCEIVED of the virgin Mary, and not implanted, transplanted or something else.
Actually, can I ask if you think He was transplanted etc into her womb?
I thought that I did..
We know for a fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is the FIRSTBORN from the dead.. and that's with respect to His creation... for DEATH has passed upon all men.. in the first Adam.. and even the Last Adam was made in the likeness of sinful flesh precisely to put away sin in the flesh.. He bore our sins in His own body on that forsaken cross..
Now seriously.. how does Christ being the FIRSTBORN from the dead mandate that He had a beginning..? He obviously existed prior to coming into this world.. He obviously existed prior to going to the cross for our sins.. and yet He is the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD... because He ROSE from the dead according to the scriptures..
That has massive implications for His CREATION... because as in Adam all DIE.. so in CHRIST all shall be made alive.. in their time..
The LORD isn't finished with His CREATION by any stretch of the imagination.. and as mentioned.. the whole CREATION groans and is waiting.. even WE who HAVE the first fruits of the SPIRIT.. we groan within ourselves.. and we're WAITING for that DAY.. when He will change these vile bodies and fashion them like unto HIS GLORIOUS BODY..
That's a simple example of how He can also be the FIRSTBORN over His creation.. by being the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD.
The first man is of the EARTH.. EARTHY.. the second man is the LORD from HEAVEN.
He's not finished with us yet... and we know not yet what we shall be.. but we shall be like HIM..
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
There's infinitely more to come.. in Christ Jesus our LORD..
I am sorry I don't follow what you wrote explains the trinity or a Jesus who always was. I also didn't see an answer to my questions in how you hold to One God. I guess we will have to disagree in a Jesus that always was.
Randy
I am sorry I don't follow what you wrote explains the trinity or a Jesus who always was. I also didn't see an answer to my questions in how you hold to One God. I guess we will have to disagree in a Jesus that always was.
Randy