The Trinity

[justbyfaith]

I said it before and I will say it again.

This is a good thread.

 

[Highway54]

The purpose of New Testament is to identify the Lord Jesus as the Son of God (because that’s His primary administration for salvation). Though the Three are equal in Deity, power and essence, They are in an order of authority (Father, Son, Spirit - Jhn 10:29; 14:28; 1Co 11:3; 15:24); as the One sending has more authority than the One sent (e.g. the Son sent the Spirit from the Father - Jhn 14:16, 26; 15:26; Heb 1:2).

The Son and the Spirit (Act 5:4) both represent God, but esp. the Son, manifesting "the fullness of the Godhead;" and the Father is the Godhead particularly, but all Three “equal” (Phl 2:6) generally (Act 17:29; Rom 1:20; Col 2:9). The "fullness," meaning the Son is the complete manifestation of the Father--or God, in all aspects, except authority; God is also "the Father of all spirits" (Heb 12:9).

Thus it is "Son of God" or "Son of the Father" (2Jo 1:3); Spirit of God or "Spirit of the Father" (Mat 10:20; Jhn 15:26; Rom 8:15). We see “Son of God” and “Spirit of God,” but not the Father of God—because God is the Father. The Lord Jesus is sometimes called God or even the Father (Isa 9:6), but it's in the sense of representing God or the Father, in order to show that the Son conveys all that God determines with His mind concerning the believer. The One sending has more authority than the One sent (e.g. the Son sent the Spirit from the Father - Jhn 14:16, 26; 15:26; Heb 1:2).

This also answers to the beginning of most of Paul's epistles: "Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom 1:7; 1Co 1:3; 2Co 1:3, etc.); the following passages also coincides with this doctrine (Jhn 20:17; Rom 15:6; 1Co 8:6; Eph 4:6).

The point is that the Father wants believers to see the Lord Jesus as the Son more than any other title, because carries the most significant relation to us as the One who only can save and bring us to the Father. Christians will be the greatest entity following the Trinity, because of being the only ones created in God’s image!

I realize this information may seem quite different to most, because I have yet to see any teaching on the Trinity in this way. It's just what I've come to believe during my 43 year walk in Christ. Of course, how one understands and believes the Trinity is not essential doctrine (essential doctrine is that which teaches how to be saved), so don’t think that however you conceive the Trinity can affect your salvation!


God’s blessing to your Families, and God be blessed!​

Equal? No sir John 14:28; 1 Cor 11:3

 

[justbyfaith]

Equal? No sir John 14:28; 1 Cor 11:3

Yes, Jesus, in His Deity, is equal to the Father (John 5:18).

As concerning His humanity, of course the Father is greater.

The doctrine is called "the hypostatic union".

It teaches that Jesus is 100% Man and 100% God.

It can be found in 1 John 4:1-3 and 2 John 1:7.

 

[netchaplain]

I said it before and I will say it again.

This is a good thread.

Hi, and thanks for your support JBF! God's blessings to your Family!

 

[netchaplain]

Equal? No sir John 14:28; 1 Cor 11:3

I would think the Father, Son and Spirit being Deity are equal in essence. They just vary in authority, having order (1Co 14:40). The Father and Son were the Creators of creation; and Their Holy Spirit is the Creator of the believer's new birth. Also, the Holy Spirit is the Author of the Word of God.

 

[Highway54]

Yes, Jesus, in His Deity, is equal to the Father (John 5:18).

As concerning His humanity, of course the Father is greater.

The doctrine is called "the hypostatic union".

It teaches that Jesus is 100% Man and 100% God.

It can be found in 1 John 4:1-3 and 2 John 1:7.

Yes, Jesus, in His Deity, is equal to the Father (John 5:18).

Get serious, Jesus didn't claim that others accused him of that. I quoted what Jesus said Faith, about Jehovah being greater than he. Why did you not care to include what Jesus went on to say to their accusation sir?

 

[Highway54]

I would think the Father, Son and Spirit being Deity are equal in essence. They just vary in authority, having order (1Co 14:40). The Father and Son were the Creators of creation; and Their Holy Spirit is the Creator of the believer's new birth. Also, the Holy Spirit is the Author of the Word of God.

The son was the first creation, and the rest was created through the son Chaplain. Rev 3:14; Col 1:15, 16

 

[netchaplain]

The son was the first creation, and the rest was created through the son Chaplain. Rev 3:14; Col 1:15, 16

Hi, and yes, Jesus came and was born of a women, and His newly created Body was the first of its kind, and was created for all eternity, same body we will have (Rom 8:23). God bless!

 

[justbyfaith]

Get serious, Jesus didn't claim that others accused him of that. I quoted what Jesus said Faith, about Jehovah being greater than he. Why did you not care to include what Jesus went on to say to their accusation sir?

What did He go on to say? I am uncertain as to what your argument is here.

 

[justbyfaith]

The son was the first creation, and the rest was created through the son Chaplain. Rev 3:14; Col 1:15, 16

"firstborn" in these verses, refers to the fact that Jesus is the prototype for everything else in all creation; and yes, He was made of the seed of David according to the flesh (that was His beginning); and He also rose to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time. Thus He created all things (John 1:3) and therefore He can be none other than Jehovah God (Isaiah 44:24).

"firstborn" also refers to Christ's preeminence.

 

[Highway54]

Hi, and yes, Jesus came and was born of a women, and His newly created Body was the first of its kind, and was created for all eternity, same body we will have (Rom 8:23). God bless!

His newly created Body was the first of its kind, and was created for all eternity, same body we will have (Rom 8:23)

Yes sir it was a first, but he sacrificed that body for mankind and no longer retains it. The anointed flock will shed their bodies as well and take on the bodily form Jesus now has Chaplain.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes sir it was a first, but he sacrificed that body for mankind and no longer retains it. The anointed flock will shed their bodies as well and take on the bodily form Jesus now has Chaplain.

I'm sorry; but this is what the Bible says about that.

1Jo 4:1, Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2, Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3, And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7, For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[Highway54]

What did He go on to say? I am uncertain as to what your argument is here.

You said: Yes, Jesus, in His Deity, is equal to the Father (John 5:18).
You stated that because those he was speaking to picked up stones accusing him of of being equal to God, they were the ones who said it, not Jesus. As I pointed out, he personally stated that God was greater than he Jn 14:28, and even after his return Jehovah was still his head 1 Cor 11:3.

When Jesus returned he was exalted in position as God's right hand man. The Bible indicated that from the beginning he was God's spokesman, given the title the Word, but until his return to heaven, he was never referred to as sitting at God's right hand, a position of authority Mat 24:18

 

[Highway54]

"firstborn" in these verses, refers to the fact that Jesus is the prototype for everything else in all creation; and yes, He was made of the seed of David according to the flesh (that was His beginning); and He also rose to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time. Thus He created all things (John 1:3) and therefore He can be none other than Jehovah God (Isaiah 44:24).

"firstborn" also refers to Christ's preeminence.

We believe the four verses that mention his beginning are literal Faith. We disagree sir.

 

[justbyfaith]

You stated that because those he was speaking to picked up stones accusing him of of being equal to God, they were the ones who said it, not Jesus.

It was the apostle John who wrote that Jesus had made Himself equal with God, in John 5:18. It was his estimation, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, according to that scripture; which was inspired by the Holy Ghost to be written by John.

We believe the four verses that mention his beginning are literal Faith. We disagree sir.

CONTEXT: How do all things consist in Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:17) if He is not God?

How, also, is He the creator, if He is not Jehovah (Isaiah 44:24)?

 

[netchaplain]

Yes sir it was a first, but he sacrificed that body for mankind and no longer retains it. The anointed flock will shed their bodies as well and take on the bodily form Jesus now has Chaplain.

Amen, and God be blessed in the highest!

 

[netchaplain]

As I pointed out, he personally stated that God was greater than he Jn 14:28, and even after his return Jehovah was still his head 1 Cor 11:3.

It's my understanding that Christ representing God (His Father and God - Jhn 20:17) is not less in power to Him but just in authority above Him. If Christ was less in power than the Father, the Father could not use Him to create or anything else that requires Deity.

J Gill: "Making himself to be equal with God; to be of the same nature, and have the same perfections, and do the same works; for by saying that God was his Father, and so that he was the Son of God, a phrase, which, with them, signified a divine person, as they might learn from Psalm 2:7, and by ascribing the same operations to himself, as to his Father, they rightly understood him, that he asserted his equality with him; for had he intended no more, and had they imagined that he intended no more by calling God his Father, than that he was so by creation, as he is to all men, or by adoption, as he was to the Jews, they would not have been so angry with him; for the phrase, in this sense, they used themselves: but they understood him otherwise, as asserting his proper deity, and perfect equality with the Father; and therefore to the charge of sabbath breaking, add that of blasphemy, and on account of both, sought to put him to death; for according to their canons, both the sabbath breaker, and the blasphemer, were to be stoned."

Phl 2:6: J Gill; "Thought it no robbery to be equal with God; the Father; for if he was in the same form, nature, and essence, he must be equal to him, as he is; for he has the same perfections, as eternity, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, immutability, and self-existence: hence he has the same glorious names, as God, the mighty God, the true God, the living God, God over all, Jehovah, the Lord of glory, &c. the same works of creation and providence are ascribed to him, and the same worship, homage, and honor given him: to be "in the form of God," and to be "equal with God," signify the same thing."

 

[Highway54]

I'm sorry; but this is what the Bible says about that.

1Jo 4:1, Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2, Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3, And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7, For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Why would you be sorry sir?

 

[Highway54]

It's my understanding that Christ representing God (His Father and God - Jhn 20:17) is not less in power to Him but just in authority above Him. If Christ was less in power than the Father, the Father could not use Him to create or anything else that requires Deity.

J Gill: "Making himself to be equal with God; to be of the same nature, and have the same perfections, and do the same works; for by saying that God was his Father, and so that he was the Son of God, a phrase, which, with them, signified a divine person, as they might learn from Psalm 2:7, and by ascribing the same operations to himself, as to his Father, they rightly understood him, that he asserted his equality with him; for had he intended no more, and had they imagined that he intended no more by calling God his Father, than that he was so by creation, as he is to all men, or by adoption, as he was to the Jews, they would not have been so angry with him; for the phrase, in this sense, they used themselves: but they understood him otherwise, as asserting his proper deity, and perfect equality with the Father; and therefore to the charge of sabbath breaking, add that of blasphemy, and on account of both, sought to put him to death; for according to their canons, both the sabbath breaker, and the blasphemer, were to be stoned."

Phl 2:6: J Gill; "Thought it no robbery to be equal with God; the Father; for if he was in the same form, nature, and essence, he must be equal to him, as he is; for he has the same perfections, as eternity, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, immutability, and self-existence: hence he has the same glorious names, as God, the mighty God, the true God, the living God, God over all, Jehovah, the Lord of glory, &c. the same works of creation and providence are ascribed to him, and the same worship, homage, and honor given him: to be "in the form of God," and to be "equal with God," signify the same thing."

If Christ was less in power than the Father, the Father could not use Him to create or anything else that requires Deity.

All of us create sir. You are very well correct, Jesus was used in creation, in fact the Bible refers to him as the master craftsman Pro 8:30; and states that all things were created through him and for him. It is to be understood however, that he did not create himself, God created Jesus by His own hands, as nothing else existed, and Jesus was the beginning of the creation. Jn 1:1; Rev 3:14; Col 1:15; Pro 8:22

 

[netchaplain]

It is to be understood however, that he did not create himself, God created Jesus by His own hands,

It's my understanding that Jesus raised Himself from the dead, thus being the Creator of His new body (Jhn 2:19). Unless I'm missing Scripture stating otherwise (not that this truth bears anything on the salvific state).

as nothing else existed,

Not sure what you mean here.

and Jesus was the beginning of the creation. Jn 1:1; Rev 3:14; Col 1:15; Pro 8:22

I agree here if you're referring to His new body is the beginning of the new creation.

Pro 8:30
"Then I was by him, [as] one brought up [with him],.... He was then, and from all eternity, "by him," or "with him" which denotes his co-existence with God, and his relation to him as his Father; his nearness to him, his equality with him, and his distinction from him: he was by him when the names of God's elect were put down in the book of life; he was by him and with him in the council and covenant of grace and peace; and so in the creation of all things, and has been ever since; not as a onlooker, but as a party concerned; and not as subordinate and inferior to his Father, but equal with him." -J Gill

Thanks for your replies and God's blessings to your Family!