The Trinity

[justbyfaith]

Why would you be sorry sir?

It might be against the ToS to explain that to you.

 

[Highway54]

It's my understanding that Jesus raised Himself from the dead, thus being the Creator of His new body (Jhn 2:19). Unless I'm missing Scripture stating otherwise (not that this truth bears anything on the salvific state).


Not sure what you mean here.

I agree here if you're referring to His new body is the beginning of the new creation.

Pro 8:30
"Then I was by him, [as] one brought up [with him],.... He was then, and from all eternity, "by him," or "with him" which denotes his co-existence with God, and his relation to him as his Father; his nearness to him, his equality with him, and his distinction from him: he was by him when the names of God's elect were put down in the book of life; he was by him and with him in the council and covenant of grace and peace; and so in the creation of all things, and has been ever since; not as a onlooker, but as a party concerned; and not as subordinate and inferior to his Father, but equal with him." -J Gill

Thanks for your replies and God's blessings to your Family!

Not sure what you mean here.

Gen 1:1 and Jn 1:1 both begin with the words In the beginning. It meant both the start of creation, and the start of time. No doubt that you and I believe that God did not have a beginning correct? But everything else did, so God was the only thing in existence until He chose to create something.

We believe by the verses I posted to you that His first creation was His firstborn son, who then assisted Him as His master craftsman in making all other things, starting with the spirit creation, then the physical creations, until He rested on the 7th day.

 

[netchaplain]

Gen 1:1 and Jn 1:1 both begin with the words In the beginning. It meant both the start of creation, and the start of time. No doubt that you and I believe that God did not have a beginning correct? But everything else did, so God was the only thing in existence until He chose to create something.

We believe by the verses I posted to you that His first creation was His firstborn son, who then assisted Him as His master craftsman in making all other things, starting with the spirit creation, then the physical creations, until He rested on the 7th day.

I think I'm not understanding you enough concerning "His first creation." Jesus was not created but incarnated (unless you consider incarnation being created). His new body was the only thing created, and this is what began the new life for the believer. Christ existed before He was incarnate, right?

 

[Highway54]

It might be against the ToS to explain that to you.

Send me a personal conversation

 

[justbyfaith]

Gen 1:1 and Jn 1:1 both begin with the words In the beginning. It meant both the start of creation, and the start of time. No doubt that you and I believe that God did not have a beginning correct? But everything else did, so God was the only thing in existence until He chose to create something.

We believe by the verses I posted to you that His first creation was His firstborn son, who then assisted Him as His master craftsman in making all other things, starting with the spirit creation, then the physical creations, until He rested on the 7th day.

Jesus was in fact "made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Romans 1:3).

His beginning happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

From there, He released His Spirit into eternity (Luke 23:46);

And also ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10).

There are ten dimensions in reality, if you do a study on the Bible codes of Genesis 1.

Time is only the fourth of these.

So, in ascending to fill all things, Jesus ascended to be outside of and to transcend time.

That means that He was in the beginning; and God from everlasting to everlasting (Psalms 90:2).

Have you considered, also, that in Him all things consist?

In light of this, how is He not God to you?

 

[Free]

Gen 1:1 and Jn 1:1 both begin with the words In the beginning. It meant both the start of creation, and the start of time. No doubt that you and I believe that God did not have a beginning correct? But everything else did, so God was the only thing in existence until He chose to create something.

We believe by the verses I posted to you that His first creation was His firstborn son, who then assisted Him as His master craftsman in making all other things, starting with the spirit creation, then the physical creations, until He rested on the 7th day.

I agree that God is uncreated and was the only "thing" in existence until he began creation. This, as you may know, is why God is referred to as a necessary being. I also agree that "In the beginning" refers to the start of creation.

To address John 1:1 and Gen 1:1:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (ESV)

"In the beginning" is clearly a reference to Gen 1:1, the start of creation. I think we agree on that. When we look at "was the Word," we see that in the Greek, "was" is en, which denotes action in eternity past. That is, when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence, and hence, had always been in existence. That is repeated in verse2. In the next clause, "and the Word was with [the] God," "God" contains the article, and is therefore a reference to the Father (at a minimum). "With," being pros, means "intimate relationship" or "communion." The last clause, "the Word was God," refers to the nature of the Word, as "God" doesn't have the article; it is a qualitative statement. One of the foundations of Christianity, and the Trinity, is monotheism, so John simply could not have meant "a god" because there are no other gods.

John's whole point in this prologue is who the Word is, and in verse 1 he shows us that the Word had eternal pre-existence, in intimate relationship with God (the Father), and was in nature deity himself. Yet, we know there was, is, and ever will be only one God. Therefore, it follows that there is plurality within the one God.

As to John's allusion to Gen 1:1:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
...
Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (ESV)

So, John uses language--"In the beginning"--that purposely brings us right back to Genesis 1, where God makes man "in his own image." And that image consists of "us" and "our." It is no surprise then that John says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (1:1, ESV). That is, the Word was already in existence when the beginning began and was in intimate relationship and communion with God, yet was also God himself.

All of that also clearly shows a plurality in the one God.

We should consider John 1:3 as well:

Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (ESV)

If what John says here is true, then the only logical conclusion is that the Word, the pre-incarnate Christ, cannot be a created "thing"; he must necessarily have always existed, the same as the Father. There is no "other" in the Greek and the context doesn't support that idea. And that fully supports what he just stated in verses 1 and 2--that when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence; that the Word is in nature God.

That is two persons of the Trinity, who have always existed within the one being that is God. And, remember, this is John's introduction, the whole point of which is to introduce us to the Word that became flesh. Everything else he says about the Son, Jesus, the Son of God, flows from this and cannot contradict it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Coexistent modalism...the true Trinity.

Here is how I define the Trinity. The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15). The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7). The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of...

christianforums.net

 

[Highway54]

I think I'm not understanding you enough concerning "His first creation." Jesus was not created but incarnated (unless you consider incarnation being created). His new body was the only thing created, and this is what began the new life for the believer. Christ existed before He was incarnate, right?

Not really sir, most likely you would agree that Jesus was simply a name given to him when he became a human, and that he was actually the Word who existed in the beginning. I have stated it plain, at one point in history only Jehovah existed by Himself, as we know He chose to create. The Bible states that the faithful witness was the beginning of the creation of God, and perhaps like myself you believe that faithful witness is Jesus Rev 1:5; 3:14. Since he was the very first creation by God he exclusively has the title as the only-begotten son from among all of God's sons, as Jesus assisted with everything else that was created, therefore nothing else was made that didn't come through his hands, and for him sir. Col 1:16

This is not hard to understand, no doubt it is a new thought to you however, so it will require a bit of research and meditation to grasp I am sure. 2 Cor 10:4

 

[Highway54]

Jesus was in fact "made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Romans 1:3).

His beginning happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

From there, He released His Spirit into eternity (Luke 23:46);

And also ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10).

There are ten dimensions in reality, if you do a study on the Bible codes of Genesis 1.

Time is only the fourth of these.

So, in ascending to fill all things, Jesus ascended to be outside of and to transcend time.

That means that He was in the beginning; and God from everlasting to everlasting (Psalms 90:2).

Have you considered, also, that in Him all things consist?

In light of this, how is He not God to you?

Jesus was in fact "made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Romans 1:3).

His beginning happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

From there, He released His Spirit into eternity (Luke 23:46);

And also ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10).

There are ten dimensions in reality, if you do a study on the Bible codes of Genesis 1.

Time is only the fourth of these.

So, in ascending to fill all things, Jesus ascended to be outside of and to transcend time.

That means that He was in the beginning; and God from everlasting to everlasting (Psalms 90:2).

Have you considered, also, that in Him all things consist?

In light of this, how is He not God to you?

His beginning happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

I think I am misunderstanding this Faith, clearly you believe he existed prior to that time in history. I do not believe that has any relevancy to Jesus being God either. You finished with how is Jesus not God to me? Because I worship and serve his God as he stated sir:
(Matthew 4:10) . . .Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’. . .
(Matthew 22:37, 38) 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment.
I choose to worship and serve the God he told us to, why would I consider doing anything else? Why would you?

 

[netchaplain]

Not really sir, most likely you would agree that Jesus was simply a name given to him when he became a human, and that he was actually the Word who existed in the beginning. I have stated it plain, at one point in history only Jehovah existed by Himself,

It's ok, but we disagree. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit never had a beginning. They were at one time the only existing beings, until creation. "The beginning of the creation of God" is in the sense that Christ was the "beginner of the creation of God." It could also mean He was the first of the new creation. Nobody with the triune God needed to be created, since They did the creating.

 

[Highway54]

I agree that God is uncreated and was the only "thing" in existence until he began creation. This, as you may know, is why God is referred to as a necessary being. I also agree that "In the beginning" refers to the start of creation.

To address John 1:1 and Gen 1:1:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (ESV)

"In the beginning" is clearly a reference to Gen 1:1, the start of creation. I think we agree on that. When we look at "was the Word," we see that in the Greek, "was" is en, which denotes action in eternity past. That is, when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence, and hence, had always been in existence. That is repeated in verse2. In the next clause, "and the Word was with [the] God," "God" contains the article, and is therefore a reference to the Father (at a minimum). "With," being pros, means "intimate relationship" or "communion." The last clause, "the Word was God," refers to the nature of the Word, as "God" doesn't have the article; it is a qualitative statement. One of the foundations of Christianity, and the Trinity, is monotheism, so John simply could not have meant "a god" because there are no other gods.

John's whole point in this prologue is who the Word is, and in verse 1 he shows us that the Word had eternal pre-existence, in intimate relationship with God (the Father), and was in nature deity himself. Yet, we know there was, is, and ever will be only one God. Therefore, it follows that there is plurality within the one God.

As to John's allusion to Gen 1:1:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
...
Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (ESV)

So, John uses language--"In the beginning"--that purposely brings us right back to Genesis 1, where God makes man "in his own image." And that image consists of "us" and "our." It is no surprise then that John says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (1:1, ESV). That is, the Word was already in existence when the beginning began and was in intimate relationship and communion with God, yet was also God himself.

All of that also clearly shows a plurality in the one God.

We should consider John 1:3 as well:

Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (ESV)

If what John says here is true, then the only logical conclusion is that the Word, the pre-incarnate Christ, cannot be a created "thing"; he must necessarily have always existed, the same as the Father. There is no "other" in the Greek and the context doesn't support that idea. And that fully supports what he just stated in verses 1 and 2--that when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence; that the Word is in nature God.

That is two persons of the Trinity, who have always existed within the one being that is God. And, remember, this is John's introduction, the whole point of which is to introduce us to the Word that became flesh. Everything else he says about the Son, Jesus, the Son of God, flows from this and cannot contradict it.

That is, when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence, and hence, had always been in existence.

Here is where we separate Free. It is the other verses involved that show the Word was not already in existence. The word which we agree is Jesus, is the firstborn of every creature (of all creation) Col 1:15, the beginning of the creation of God Rev 3:14. He exclusively holds the title of only-begotten out of all of God's sons as he was created solely by Jehovah alone, since as you stated nothing else existed. Jesus is the master craftsman of creation Pro 8:30, and everything other than himself was created through and for him Col 1:16. I know this is very new to you, at one time it was to me as well. It is up to you of course to determine if what I am saying is true or not, but it is an important point because salvation is determined upon knowing God and obeying the gospel 2 Thes 1:6-9.

 

[Free]

It is the other verses involved that show the Word was not already in existence.

And, yet, as I have shown, the Greek grammar of John 1:1, the very first verse of John's gospel and his prologue, from which we get the core identity of the Word, the preincarnate Son, shows that the Word has always existed; when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence. He cannot not have existed alongside the Father for all eternity past. That is further supported in verses 2 and 3. Everything John says in his gospel about Jesus must have that understanding as the starting point.

Which other verses do you have in mind?

The word which we agree is Jesus, is the firstborn of every creature (of all creation) Col 1:15,

Firstborn in this verse means preeminence, as it does elsewhere in scripture. It cannot mean he was created or that directly contradicts verse 16.

the beginning of the creation of God Rev 3:14.

Which means, the author and beginner of creation. That fully agrees with John 1:1-3 and Col 1:15-16.

He exclusively holds the title of only-begotten out of all of God's sons as he was created solely by Jehovah alone, since as you stated nothing else existed. Jesus is the master craftsman of creation Pro 8:30, and

Yes, he alone holds that title, but what "only-begotten" means is what matters. What it doesn't mean is that Jesus was created or that there was a time when he did not exist. It means "unique," "only," or "one and only." The Greek word is monogenes. It is used only nine times in the NT, five of those times it is used of Christ and even then, only by John (John 1:14, 18; 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9). The other four times, the KJV translates it as “only” (Luke 7:12; 8:42), “only child” (Luke 9:38), and “only begotten” (Heb 11:17). It is never translated as “conceived” and does not refer to “begetting” in the sense of being created or coming into existence at a point in time.

Each instance of monogenes is speaking of the relationship of parents to their children, not their conception or their physical begetting. And, in fact, this is precisely what we see in John 1:18, although, because we already know that the preincarnate Son “was with God and was God,” it can only be speaking of the eternal relationship of the Father and the Son. This is also supported by 1:18 itself: “which is in the bosom of the Father.”

everything other than himself was created through and for him Col 1:16.

Col 1:16 perfectly agrees with John 1:3 and 1 Cor 8:6:

Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (ESV)

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (ESV)

Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. (ESV)

There is nothing in Col 1:16 to suggest that "everything other than [Jesus] was created through him and for him." It only says that "all things were created by him and for him." If Jesus was created, then these verses are all false, and we have a false gospel based on a false Jesus.

I know this is very new to you, at one time it was to me as well. It is up to you of course to determine if what I am saying is true or not, but it is an important point because salvation is determined upon knowing God and obeying the gospel 2 Thes 1:6-9.

Salvation is also dependent on believing and putting faith in the Jesus of the Bible.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think I am misunderstanding this Faith, clearly you believe he existed prior to that time in history. I do not believe that has any relevancy to Jesus being God either. You finished with how is Jesus not God to me? Because I worship and serve his God as he stated sir:
(Matthew 4:10) . . .Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’. . .
(Matthew 22:37, 38) 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment.
I choose to worship and serve the God he told us to, why would I consider doing anything else? Why would you?

Consider.

Mar 12:29, And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Eph 4:5, One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Mat 11:25, At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Luk 10:21, In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

2Co 6:17, Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


Mal 2:10, Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

1Co 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

 

[for_his_glory]

Not really sir, most likely you would agree that Jesus was simply a name given to him when he became a human, and that he was actually the Word who existed in the beginning. I have stated it plain, at one point in history only Jehovah existed by Himself, as we know He chose to create. The Bible states that the faithful witness was the beginning of the creation of God, and perhaps like myself you believe that faithful witness is Jesus Rev 1:5; 3:14. Since he was the very first creation by God he exclusively has the title as the only-begotten son from among all of God's sons, as Jesus assisted with everything else that was created, therefore nothing else was made that didn't come through his hands, and for him sir. Col 1:16

This is not hard to understand, no doubt it is a new thought to you however, so it will require a bit of research and meditation to grasp I am sure. 2 Cor 10:4

Jehovah Witness belief about the Trinity:

They do not believe in the Trinity. Instead, they follow a strict monotheism, in which: Jehovah is the Supreme Being. Jesus is the Son of God, a created being. Christ is believed to have originally existed in a pre-human state as the Archangel Michael. He later took human form as a man like any other person, except that he was sinless at birth and remained so throughout his earthly life. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. They believe that after the crucifixion, Christ died and was resurrected as an invisible, non-material, glorious, spirit creature. They believe that Jesus appeared on earth after his resurrection in a special body that Jehovah created for him.

The Holy Spirit they believe, is not a separate entity, but is simply a force: the method by which God interacts with the world.

 

[gordon777]

To not be of the same mind and judgement, reveals no belief in one God, even the thread alone reveals dispute, strife, debate, contention. ( this is the mystery of oneness)


John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Romans 12:16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Philippians 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

Philippians 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

 

[Highway54]

It's ok, but we disagree. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit never had a beginning. They were at one time the only existing beings, until creation. "The beginning of the creation of God" is in the sense that Christ was the "beginner of the creation of God." It could also mean He was the first of the new creation. Nobody with the triune God needed to be created, since They did the creating.

No problem sir, it is the disagreements that distinguish and identify us Chaplin. Were you aware that Jesus was not given holy spirit until he returned to heaven? Acts 2:33 I sure found that interesting when I first discovered it, how bout yourself?

 

[Highway54]

And, yet, as I have shown, the Greek grammar of John 1:1, the very first verse of John's gospel and his prologue, from which we get the core identity of the Word, the preincarnate Son, shows that the Word has always existed; when the beginning began, the Word was already in existence. He cannot not have existed alongside the Father for all eternity past. That is further supported in verses 2 and 3. Everything John says in his gospel about Jesus must have that understanding as the starting point.

Which other verses do you have in mind?


Firstborn in this verse means preeminence, as it does elsewhere in scripture. It cannot mean he was created or that directly contradicts verse 16.


Which means, the author and beginner of creation. That fully agrees with John 1:1-3 and Col 1:15-16.


Yes, he alone holds that title, but what "only-begotten" means is what matters. What it doesn't mean is that Jesus was created or that there was a time when he did not exist. It means "unique," "only," or "one and only." The Greek word is monogenes. It is used only nine times in the NT, five of those times it is used of Christ and even then, only by John (John 1:14, 18; 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9). The other four times, the KJV translates it as “only” (Luke 7:12; 8:42), “only child” (Luke 9:38), and “only begotten” (Heb 11:17). It is never translated as “conceived” and does not refer to “begetting” in the sense of being created or coming into existence at a point in time.

Each instance of monogenes is speaking of the relationship of parents to their children, not their conception or their physical begetting. And, in fact, this is precisely what we see in John 1:18, although, because we already know that the preincarnate Son “was with God and was God,” it can only be speaking of the eternal relationship of the Father and the Son. This is also supported by 1:18 itself: “which is in the bosom of the Father.”


Col 1:16 perfectly agrees with John 1:3 and 1 Cor 8:6:

Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (ESV)

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (ESV)

Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. (ESV)

There is nothing in Col 1:16 to suggest that "everything other than [Jesus] was created through him and for him." It only says that "all things were created by him and for him." If Jesus was created, then these verses are all false, and we have a false gospel based on a false Jesus.


Salvation is also dependent on believing and putting faith in the Jesus of the Bible.

Time will tell sir, I appreciate the length you went to show evidence, but we disagree and perhaps others will learn from it, but it fell on deaf ears to me. Teachings are the primary identifying fruit of Christians Free.

 

[Highway54]

Consider.

Mar 12:29, And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Eph 4:5, One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Mat 11:25, At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Luk 10:21, In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

2Co 6:17, Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


Mal 2:10, Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

1Co 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Exactly! Jehovah is the Father, Jesus is the anointed one. Who anointed Jesus sir?

 

[Highway54]

Jehovah Witness belief about the Trinity:

They do not believe in the Trinity. Instead, they follow a strict monotheism, in which: Jehovah is the Supreme Being. Jesus is the Son of God, a created being. Christ is believed to have originally existed in a pre-human state as the Archangel Michael. He later took human form as a man like any other person, except that he was sinless at birth and remained so throughout his earthly life. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. They believe that after the crucifixion, Christ died and was resurrected as an invisible, non-material, glorious, spirit creature. They believe that Jesus appeared on earth after his resurrection in a special body that Jehovah created for him.

The Holy Spirit they believe, is not a separate entity, but is simply a force: the method by which God interacts with the world.

I salute you maam, you did not lie about us, that is quite accurate.

 

[netchaplain]

No problem sir, it is the disagreements that distinguish and identify us Chaplin. Were you aware that Jesus was not given holy spirit until he returned to heaven? Acts 2:33 I sure found that interesting when I first discovered it, how bout yourself?

Actually, Jesus received the Spirit in John 1:32, and from there on He baptized with the Holy Ghost, those who would believe on Him. Him receiving the Spirit in the form of a dove was for us to see what He was going to do to everyone who believed on Him; because He and the Spirit have always been one with the Father since eternity-past.

When it says "having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear." This is in reference to Jesus baptizing believers with the Spirit (Act 2:33); John Gill: "which the Father had promised to pour forth in the last days, (Isaiah 44:3), and which Christ had promised to send from the Father" (Jhn 15:26).