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The Trinity

netchaplain said:
"If any man hath not the Spirit" Rom 8:9; "if" the Spirit is in you Ro 8:11; you must be a child of God to have the Spirit
Gal 4:6.There are innumerable passages that could be cited on this issue. Very important to know the truth of it.
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It is also important to know who that is referring to as well Chaplain. Those of the new covenant are the ones that both of those letters were written to sir. Rom 1:7 and although Paul didn't say it directly in Galatians, it was written to the anointed ones of the covenant as well.

The vast majority of Christians are of the other sheep, not of the little flock of the covenant who are the brothers of Christ.
 
justbyfaith said:
The pre-incarnate Word is not created; He is from everlasting to everlasting.

Jesus, in His incarnation, is created, in His humanity, His physical body was created.

In His Deity He is uncreated.

The Son also ascended to exist outside of time and therefore He is also from everlasting to everlasting (Psalms 90:2).
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I thought that was the way you felt. We believe he was the first and only creation by Jehovah solely.
 
for_his_glory said:
Only Jehovah Witnesses believe Jesus was created.


Watch Tower Society teaches Jesus is the Son of God, a created being. Christ is believed to have originally existed in a pre-human state as the Archangel Michael. He later took human form as a man like any other person, except that he was sinless at birth and remained so throughout his earthly life. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. They believe that after the crucifixion, Christ died and was resurrected as an invisible, non-material, glorious, spirit creature. They believe that Jesus appeared on earth after his resurrection in a special body that Jehovah created for him.

The Holy Spirit they believe, is not a separate entity, but is simply a force: the method by which God interacts with the world.
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for_his_glory said:
Only Jehovah Witnesses believe Jesus was created.
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I am not sure if that is true or not, but yes Jehovah's people do believe that.
for_his_glory said:
Watch Tower Society teaches Jesus is the Son of God, a created being. Christ is believed to have originally existed in a pre-human state as the Archangel Michael.
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Correct, Jesus is the son of God, he did exist prior to coming to earth, and likely you believe that as well. We do believe for various reasons his name was Michael, the highest angel. Most likely you would agree he had a name, but was not named Jesus until he came to earth as a human. He is still referred to as Jesus after his return to heaven, although likely he is called by his heavenly name by those who reside in heaven. The Bible refers to him as Michael a couple of times (I think) in the new testament. I would be happy to give supporting information as to why we believe he is Michael the archangel if you desire.
 
Highway54 said:
It is also important to know who that is referring to as well Chaplain. Those of the new covenant are the ones that both of those letters were written to sir. Rom 1:7 and although Paul didn't say it directly in Galatians, it was written to the anointed ones of the covenant as well.

The vast majority of Christians are of the other sheep, not of the little flock of the covenant who are the brothers of Christ.
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Just to let you know, only Christians are anointed in the Spirit. These are those God knew, from eternity past, would choose Him!

It's also good to know that only those who are truly seeking truth will find it. If we don't find truth, it's only because we're not truly seeking it; and those who are His cannot but seek the truth, because God assures they will seek it (Phl 2:13).
 
Highway54 said:
I am not sure if that is true or not, but yes Jehovah's people do believe that.

Correct, Jesus is the son of God, he did exist prior to coming to earth, and likely you believe that as well. We do believe for various reasons his name was Michael, the highest angel. Most likely you would agree he had a name, but was not named Jesus until he came to earth as a human. He is still referred to as Jesus after his return to heaven, although likely he is called by his heavenly name by those who reside in heaven. The Bible refers to him as Michael a couple of times (I think) in the new testament. I would be happy to give supporting information as to why we believe he is Michael the archangel if you desire.
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The "son that was given" shall have the name of "The everlasting Father". The zeal of the LORD of hosts shall perform this (Isaiah 9:6-7).
 
netchaplain said:
Just to let you know, only Christians are anointed in the Spirit. These are those God knew, from eternity past, would choose Him!

It's also good to know that only those who are truly seeking truth will find it. If we don't find truth, it's only because we're not truly seeking it; and those who are His cannot but seek the truth, because God assures they will seek it (Phl 2:13).
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Exactly! No doubt about it, but really that is simply understood, why would God choose to bestow holy spirit on those who choose not to follow His son? We know the Bible identifies the path God has laid out for those who choose to seek Him, so would you say the chief identifier of those who seek the truth would be seeking the God that Jesus instructed his followers about?
 
justbyfaith said:
The "son that was given" shall have the name of "The everlasting Father". The zeal of the LORD of hosts shall perform this (Isaiah 9:6-7).
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Very true Faith, so since he is not the Father as discerned by his own teachings, how can that harmonize with them? Here is our understanding of why that title can be applied to Jesus:
*** cf chap. 18 p. 189 par. 20 “Continue Following Me” ***
In Jesus, Jehovah has provided an “Eternal Father” for those who hope to live forever on earth. Jesus is a replacement for the human father, Adam, who failed all his offspring so miserably. (Isaiah 9:6, 7) By accepting Jesus as our “Eternal Father,” exercising faith in him, we have a sure hope of everlasting life.
*** it-2 p. 248 Life ***
Through Jesus Christ, then, regeneration to life comes. He is called “the last Adam . . . a life-giving spirit.” (1Co 15:45) Prophecy designates him as “Eternal Father” (Isa 9:6) and as the one who “poured out his soul to the very death,” whose soul is ‘set as a guilt offering.’ He, as such “Father,” is able to regenerate mankind, thus giving life to those who exercise faith in the offering of his soul and are obedient.—Isa 53:10-12.
*** w14 2/15 p. 12 par. 18 Rejoice Over the Marriage of the Lamb! ***
During his Millennial Reign, Christ will become a father to others also. In fact, all earth’s inhabitants who receive everlasting life will gain it because they exercise faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. (John 3:16) He thus becomes their “Eternal Father.”—Isa. 9:6, 7.

So in conflict to other passages in the Bible he could be actually the Father, or he could be as we explain which does not contradict.
 
Highway54 said:
Then as you see by your very own evidence, Jesus is not the Father who is God sir. Jesus was not talking about himself, he was fleshly and stated God was a spirit.
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We, as human beings, are composed of spirit and soul and body (1 Thessalonians 5:23). So, Jesus, being God, was a Spirit (John 4:24) come in flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).
 
justbyfaith said:
We, as human beings, are composed of spirit and soul and body (1 Thessalonians 5:23). So, Jesus, being God, was a Spirit (John 4:24) come in flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).
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How does your conclusion follow?
 
Free said:
How does your conclusion follow?
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God is a Spirit (John 4:24). Jesus is God (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33; John 8:24). Therefore, Jesus is a Spirit.

Albeit, He is come in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

Also, Jesus is human (John 1:1,14).

Therefore, He is composed of spirit and soul and body (1 Thessalonians 5:23).
 
justbyfaith said:
God is a Spirit (John 4:24). Jesus is God (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33; John 8:24). Therefore, Jesus is a Spirit.

Albeit, He is come in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

Also, Jesus is human (John 1:1,14).

Therefore, He is composed of spirit and soul and body (1 Thessalonians 5:23).
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In and of himself as a human, yes, but how does it follow that that shows Jesus is the Father?
 
Free said:
In and of himself as a human, yes, but how does it follow that that shows Jesus is the Father?
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Because the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24). And Jesus, being God, is a Spirit (John 4:24).

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

Therefore, either they are the same Spirit, or else Jesus isn't the Spirit who is God.
 
justbyfaith said:
And Jesus, being God, is a Spirit (John 4:24).
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Nothing in that verse says Jesus is a spirit. And it depends on what you mean by "Jesus is a Spirit," since Jesus says he isn't a spirit:

Luk 24:39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” (ESV)

justbyfaith said:
There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).
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Which is referring to the Holy Spirit alone. Note that all three persons are mentioned:

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (ESV)

justbyfaith said:
Therefore, either they are the same Spirit, or else Jesus isn't the Spirit who is God.
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Your conclusion still doesn't follow as 1) it begs the question and 2) ignores the relationship of Father and Son (a son is never his own father nor a father his own son).
 
Free said:
Nothing in that verse says Jesus is a spirit. And it depends on what you mean by "Jesus is a Spirit," since Jesus says he isn't a spirit:
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Jesus is human; and therefore He is composed of spirit and soul and body (1 Thessalonians 5:23).
Free said:
Luk 24:39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” (ESV)
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Jesus is saying by this that He is there in the flesh and that He is not a disembodied spirit.

If Jesus isn't a Spirit, then He isn't God (John 4:24).
Free said:
Which is referring to the Holy Spirit alone. Note that all three persons are mentioned:

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (ESV)
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There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (John 4:24; Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6); the Father (Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv)), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33; John 8:24), and the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27).

There are not nine members in the Trinity.

I write these things in obedience to Titus 2:1,

Tit 2:1, But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

Read Ephesians 4:4-6 and 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 in light of the above information.

Free said:
Your conclusion still doesn't follow as 1) it begs the question and 2) ignores the relationship of Father and Son (a son is never his own father nor a father his own son).
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In God's scheme of things, things can be different than when you are looking at them from a merely human perspective.

Obviously, the "son that was given" shall have the name of "The everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6).
 
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