The truth about tongues

[Dave Slayer]

The truth of tongues by John MacArthur. Part 1 of 22.

[youtube:tq4vg6er]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3cLChnG_mE[/youtube:tq4vg6er]

 

[radorth]

The logic seems to be that since counterfeit $20 bills exist, there are no real ones.

Is this not a fair analogy?

 

[follower of Christ]

The logic seems to be that since counterfeit $20 bills exist, there are no real ones.

Is this not a fair analogy?

When youve held 1000 $20 bills over the course of your life and only two of them 'may' have been genuine, its a bit hard to believe that there any that arent counterfeit....

Instead of a lot of cross posting, readers see my posts in these other tongues threads....
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=38008
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=37982
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=38005

 

[Cornelius]

So let me get this straight.

Those who do not believe in tongues , possess the skill to tell us when they are not real?

Something about this , does not sound right.

"I have never been to China, but let me tell you it is a really great place to travel, although I found the food really terrible there"

LOL

 

[Lee100]

If anyone wants to know if tongues are real or not, here is the proof.

1Co 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.

If Paul the apostle wrote about it, that is all the proof I need, I do not question the Bible, nor should anyone who claims to be a Christian, correct?

Now about Tongues being for today, that is another post for another time.

 

[Guest]

I do not question the Bible, nor should anyone who claims to be a Christian, correct?

When a Christian accepts the Bible in an unwavering and unquestioning manner (i.e., accepts the Bible as the absolute and final authority without question or consideration), then this person runs the risk of being exploited by those more knowledgeable of the Bible or parts of the Bible. Sadly, this form of exploitation occurs all the time within the Church. It even happens by people who are not even aware they're exploiting their brother or sister. So, I would not advocate such a position.

 

[stranger]

The logic seems to be that since counterfeit $20 bills exist, there are no real ones.

Is this not a fair analogy?

Hi radorth,

Thankyou for the analogy. The word 'logic, counterfeit and real' have a special appeal to me. What I find interesting is how:

condemning a part is quickly transferred to condemning the whole.

The part represents our realm of expereince or the instances of speaking in tongues that we have witnessed firsthand.

The whole represents every instance of 'speaking in tongues' in the world, that only God has witnessed.

So yes, the point of the analogy of the $20 bills is fair enough. Even if there is only one genuine $20 bill in the entire world (hidden in the wardrobe of some old lady) -- and all the rest were counterfeit it would be false to say ALL are counterfeit.

Calvin said this: one or two exceptions does not abbrogate a general rule. But I think he fell short of the apostolic standard because a general rule can never abroggate even one exception.

blessings

 

[Lee100]

I was only pointing out the fact that the Bible teaches us that tongues were a reality in Paul’s day, the same as the fact that the Bible teaches us Jesus died and arose again on the third day, these are all facts, no need to get your feathers ruffled.

 

[Vic C.]

Hey Dave,

John MacArthur really nailed it, as he so often does in his sermons and lectures. He used historical context to do it too. You can't ignore history or else you're bound to repeat it. He was right when he said, this is Corinth revisited. We so often go to Revelations and point to the Laodicean church as the model for the current apostate church. I see a lot of what when on in Corinth then, happening now.

Thanks for sharing John's sermon with us. :amen

 

[radorth]

John Mac Arthur on tongues:

"It was never God's intention to be addressed in a language that is incomprehensible to the speaker."

This statement appears to be patently false since we all agree there has to be an interpreter for anybody to know what is spoken.

And, another question- what does MacArthur think the "tongues of angels" means?

It appears he also has stretched "don't abuse it" into "don't use it," a rather common error I am afraid.

Rad

 

[follower of Christ]

So let me get this straight.

Those who do not believe in tongues , possess the skill to tell us when they are not real?

Something about this , does not sound right.

"I have never been to China, but let me tell you it is a really great place to travel, although I found the food really terrible there"

LOL

No friend, we TEST your tongues by the word of God.
and yes, I know some dont like to be tested, they like to say things like 'dont touch Gods annointed' when it doesnt apply to them to keep us from daring to test them.

Sorry, but even if an angel out of heaven presents himself *I* will require ID and proof of insurance....NO one gets passed the test...like it or not.

 

[follower of Christ]

If anyone wants to know if tongues are real or not, here is the proof.
1Co 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
If Paul the apostle wrote about it, that is all the proof I need, I do not question the Bible, nor should anyone who claims to be a Christian, correct?
Now about Tongues being for today, that is another post for another time.

Tongues being 'real' isnt the point...we ALL know tongues were and are real.
That does not mean that everyone who claims to speak in tongues is doing so by the power of the Holy Spirit. Ive seen FAR too many fakers to know better.

You say you dont question the bible....would you care to test that statement ?

 

[follower of Christ]

I do not question the Bible, nor should anyone who claims to be a Christian, correct?

When a Christian accepts the Bible in an unwavering and unquestioning manner (i.e., accepts the Bible as the absolute and final authority without question or consideration), then this person runs the risk of being exploited by those more knowledgeable of the Bible or parts of the Bible. Sadly, this form of exploitation occurs all the time within the Church. It even happens by people who are not even aware they're exploiting their brother or sister. So, I would not advocate such a position.

The bible IS the absolute and final authority, friend.
UNDERSTANDING what it teaches is another matter.

 

[Guest]

The bible IS the absolute and final authority, friend.

Please see the new thread "The Absolute and Final Authority for Christians."

UNDERSTANDING what it teaches is another matter.

We agree here.

 

[follower of Christ]

Im going to put this in each of the tongues threads so no one misses it.

Another issue that I find VERY odd is that these in Matthew 7 who are told that Jesus NEVER knew them have some very peculiar aspects to them.

"Not everyone who keeps saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will get into the kingdom of heaven, but only the person who keeps doing the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name, drove out demons in your name, and performed many miracles in your name, didn't we?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you evildoers!'"
(Mat 7:21-23)

These believed that they WERE His, but for all their supposed miraculous acts they WERENT.
No claims are being made, but it is peculiar to see that the way that these folks DEFENDED themselves was by the their exhibiting the SIGN gifts, as tho that was some sort of evidence that they were Christs.

 

[Imagican]

John Mac Arthur on tongues:

"It was never God's intention to be addressed in a language that is incomprehensible to the speaker."

This statement appears to be patently false since we all agree there has to be an interpreter for anybody to know what is spoken.

And, another question- what does MacArthur think the "tongues of angels" means?

It appears he also has stretched "don't abuse it" into "don't use it," a rather common error I am afraid.

Rad

I don't know about MacArthur's take on 'tongues of angels' but here's mine.

Paul did NOT state that there ARE tongues of angels. What he stated is that WHATEVER anyone does, if they do it WITHOUT CHARITY then it is USELESS.

It was merely a 'figure of speech'. If one reads the words of Paul it is apparent that such uses of 'figurative speach' are used often.

When John gives us a glimpse of his vision of Revelation, not ONCE does he mention angels SPEAKING in a language that is INDISTINGUISHABLE. He actually TELLS us what the angels were SAYING.

So, there is NO indication that there IS a 'voice of angels' so far as a LANGUAGE is concerned.

The REASON that tongues MUST be followed BY an interpreter is that 'diverse tongues' were LANGUAGES. Not incoherent babbling. For there is NO WAY that one CAN interpret incoherent BABBLING. And if anyone PRETENDS to DO SO, then they are doing JUST THAT; PRETENDING. And folks ANYONE COULD DO IT if they so chose to attempt to SHOW others JUST HOW HOLY THEY ARE.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

I am really not so concerned about them that have 'given themselves over' to the teachings and practicing of 'false tongues'. What concerns me MORE is the thought that these may have adverse effects upon others who have NOT been given a chance to discern YET.

These USUALLY prey upon the unintiated. For those that are firmly based in Christ rarely are able to be influenced by such gibberish.

And we have the words of Paul PLAINLY stating that those in Corinth practicing such behavior NEEDED to 'grow up'. So there is the indication that those that practice such are acting like 'children'.

So, while those that 'believe' in such a manner may well believe that the REST of the Christian community is agressively 'harrassing them', the truth is that it is for the sake of them that have NOT been exposed to such 'childishness' that we offer truth concerning such topics.

Men DO have influence upon OTHER MEN. And I, for one, would feel that my walk couldn't POSSIBLY be taken in a proper direction if when I SEE those that would convert others into falsehood I simply 'sat back' and offered NOTHING. It IS our DUTY to witness and offer testimony in TRUTH. It IS our duty, IF we understand LOVE, to BE our brothers KEEPERS. And in light of both these statements; it IS our duty to do what we can to expose such behavior for EXACTLY what it is.

Blessings,

MEC